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Can you recommend any C programming books?

P: n/a
Any books that helped you progress in C programming?

Where do you begin with C programming?

Can you recommend any websites?

How many months or years did it take you to become knowledge to write
software?
Nov 15 '05 #1
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22 Replies


P: n/a
ajm
read the reference manual (Haribson / Steele) and take a look at the
CFAQ when you run into problems. many think you should be reading K&R
too.

start programming early, C is a contact sport and it doesn't help to
get buried in books.

how long it is going to take depends entirely on you ;)

Nov 15 '05 #2

P: n/a

"ajm" <a_*******@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g49g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
read the reference manual (Haribson / Steele) and take a look at the
CFAQ when you run into problems. many think you should be reading K&R
too.

start programming early, C is a contact sport and it doesn't help to
get buried in books.

how long it is going to take depends entirely on you ;)


K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).

It is rather confusing to begin with, however the only way to get better at
programming is to practice, practice, practice coding and writing as many
programs.

It will probably take me a year to get to the level to write the software,
at the advanced stage maybe 2. Remember I have have got many ideas to
startup, but programming skills need to improve. ;-)
Nov 15 '05 #3

P: n/a
omar khan a écrit :
K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).


It's an felony to have such a copy. The K&R is a paper book and it is on
sale. Copies are illegal. Here is a free e-book:

http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

--
C is a sharp tool
Nov 15 '05 #4

P: n/a
On 2005-10-31, Emmanuel Delahaye <em**********@noos.fr> wrote:
omar khan a écrit :
K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).
It's an felony to have such a copy. The K&R is a paper book and it is on
sale. Copies are illegal. Here is a free e-book:


Copyright violation of that magnitude is not generally a felony.
Also, if he also had a paper copy [though he did not indicate such]
there may be some jurisdictions in which it is not illegal to also
have an electronic copy no matter what the source. Under traditional
copyright law, receiving an illegal copy of a work may not itself be
copyright violation at all.

But, seriously - it's not that expensive - just buy it. it's less
than US$40 new and well worth it.

http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

Nov 15 '05 #5

P: n/a
In article <bO******************@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
Any books that helped you progress in C programming?

Where do you begin with C programming?

Can you recommend any websites?
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/booklist
How many months or years did it take you to become knowledge to write
software?


I started programming in high school I think in 1978, and
I'm still learning. It takes many people a _good_ 6 months
to shake out the sillies and a good year to be in "beginner mode".
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Nov 15 '05 #6

P: n/a
Emmanuel Delahaye wrote:
omar khan a écrit :
K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).

It's an felony to have such a copy.

<snip>

No, it's not. It's not even a felony to make and distribute them.
Without delving into the legalese too much, "felony" is a word reserved
for grave criminal offenses (for suitable values of "grave"). Copyright
violation is not one of them in any legal system I know of.

Even so it's typically illegal to make and distribute copies without
permission, but not to simply own them. This is disregarding the
morality of the thing, of course, which I'll mercifully leave untouched.

Pardon the off-topic pedantry, but misconceptions about copyright are
too common and relevant these days to ignore.

S.
Nov 15 '05 #7

P: n/a
In article <43***********************@news.xs4all.nl>,
Skarmander <in*****@dontmailme.com> wrote:
Without delving into the legalese too much, "felony" is a word reserved
for grave criminal offenses (for suitable values of "grave"). Copyright
violation is not one of them in any legal system I know of.


The US Digital Millenium Copyright Act introduced a new offence
of "criminal copyright violation" in instances where the value of
the copied work exceeded a certain value (and the limit is low enough
to include most name-brand commercial items whilst excluding
most personal writings and home businesses.)

Canada does not use the word 'felony', so technically nothing here is
a felony under Canadian law. Copyright violation falls under
the Copyright Act, not under Canada Criminal Code, but the Copyright Act
provides for up to 5 years in prison per copyright violation offence.
When I searched the Considated Statutes And Regulations, I was unable
to find any information about what classes of offences in Canada result in
"a criminal record".
--
Okay, buzzwords only. Two syllables, tops. -- Laurie Anderson
Nov 15 '05 #8

P: n/a

"Greg Comeau" <co****@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dk**********@panix1.panix.com...
In article <bO******************@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
Any books that helped you progress in C programming?

Where do you begin with C programming?

Can you recommend any websites?


http://www.comeaucomputing.com/booklist
How many months or years did it take you to become knowledge to write
software?


I started programming in high school I think in 1978, and
I'm still learning. It takes many people a _good_ 6 months
to shake out the sillies and a good year to be in "beginner mode".
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?


Thats almost four decades of experience?!?!, surely by now you would be able
to write many thousands or millions of lines of code alone or as part of a
team of programmers?
Nov 15 '05 #9

P: n/a
Op Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:03:28 GMT schreef omar khan:
"Greg Comeau" <co****@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dk**********@panix1.panix.com...
In article <bO******************@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
Any books that helped you progress in C programming?

Where do you begin with C programming?

Can you recommend any websites?


http://www.comeaucomputing.com/booklist
How many months or years did it take you to become knowledge to write
software?


I started programming in high school I think in 1978, and
I'm still learning. It takes many people a _good_ 6 months
to shake out the sillies and a good year to be in "beginner mode".
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?


Thats almost four decades of experience?!?!, surely by now you would be able
to write many thousands or millions of lines of code alone or as part of a
team of programmers?


What planet do you live on? 246 days a year is nice! How many holidays do
you folks have?
--
Coos
Nov 15 '05 #10

P: n/a
Walter Roberson wrote:
In article <43***********************@news.xs4all.nl>,
Skarmander <in*****@dontmailme.com> wrote:
Without delving into the legalese too much, "felony" is a word reserved
for grave criminal offenses (for suitable values of "grave"). Copyright
violation is not one of them in any legal system I know of.

The US Digital Millenium Copyright Act introduced a new offence
of "criminal copyright violation" in instances where the value of
the copied work exceeded a certain value (and the limit is low enough
to include most name-brand commercial items whilst excluding
most personal writings and home businesses.)

Canada does not use the word 'felony', so technically nothing here is
a felony under Canadian law. Copyright violation falls under
the Copyright Act, not under Canada Criminal Code, but the Copyright Act
provides for up to 5 years in prison per copyright violation offence.
When I searched the Considated Statutes And Regulations, I was unable
to find any information about what classes of offences in Canada result in
"a criminal record".


Yes, the DMCA did introduce a new class of offence beyond the common
breach of civil law and heightened the penalties on a few others. In
some cases and jurisdictions this might push a violation into the range
of "felony" (those that use "felony" for any crime that is punishable by
more than a year in prison, for example).

In any case, it's unlikely that merely owning an illicit copy of a book
classifies as a serious crime in any jurisdiction, or indeed as a crime
at all in most, let alone as a felony in those systems that make the
distinction.

S.
Nov 15 '05 #11

P: n/a
In article <Q%*******************@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
"Greg Comeau" <co****@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dk**********@panix1.panix.com...
I started programming in high school I think in 1978, and
I'm still learning.
Thats almost four decades of experience?!?!,
Three decades, not four.
surely by now you would be able
to write many thousands or millions of lines of code alone or as part of a
team of programmers?


I must be 1-3 years older than Greg, and sure I can write a lot of
code alone or as part of a team of programmers. That doesn't mean
I'm not still learning about programming. The saying, "There's another
born every minute" can just about apply to programming languages and
programming techniques and programming in the context of specific devices.
As a quick example: I've been working hard with the Cisco PIX Firewall
("Security Appliance") for four years, going carefully over its
documentation, creating reference material, making a nuisance of myself
to the manufacturer, and deliberately seeking out and answering
literally thousands of questions so as to increase my understand of
it. Many people would say that I am a "PIX expert". Even so, I find
that at best I am able to answer 2 questions out of every 3, because
there is so much to know. The number of potential configuration
interactions on a device like the PIX is N factorial, where N is the
number of features. If the PIX had as few as 10 features, that would
be over 3 million potential feature interactions. If I had worked
8 hours a day, 365 days a year, for four years, I would have had
to have learned a new interaction every 12 seconds in order to know
all of those interactions by now.
--
All is vanity. -- Ecclesiastes
Nov 15 '05 #12

P: n/a
Skarmander <in*****@dontmailme.com> writes:
[...]
In any case, it's unlikely that merely owning an illicit copy of a
book classifies as a serious crime in any jurisdiction, or indeed as a
crime at all in most, let alone as a felony in those systems that make
the distinction.


Regardless of the legalities, possessing an illicit copy of K&R2 is
extremely inconsiderate to Mr. Kernighan and Mr. Ritchie. The
revenues from their book are part of their income; depriving them and
their publisher of those revenues for the sake of your own convenience
is rude.

If they had chosen to make the contents of the book freely available,
of course, it would be a completely different situation, but they
haven't done so.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Nov 15 '05 #13

P: n/a
In article <Q%*******************@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
"Greg Comeau" <co****@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dk**********@panix1.panix.com...
In article <bO******************@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
omar khan <no****@nospam.com> wrote:
>Any books that helped you progress in C programming?
>
>Where do you begin with C programming?
>
>Can you recommend any websites?
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/booklist
>How many months or years did it take you to become knowledge to write
>software?


I started programming in high school I think in 1978, and
I'm still learning. It takes many people a _good_ 6 months
to shake out the sillies and a good year to be in "beginner mode".
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?


Thats almost four decades of experience?!?!


Not in earth year it is not. Or if so, they I'm glad to hear
I'm much younger looking that I actually am (which is good
because I've been recently thinking the opposite).
surely by now you would be able
to write many thousands or millions of lines of code alone or as part of a
team of programmers?


I'm sure I've written at least a million functional lines.
But I don't know how that negates that there is still things to learn. ??
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Nov 15 '05 #14

P: n/a
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:36:08 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Skarmander
<in*****@dontmailme.com> wrote:
Emmanuel Delahaye wrote:
omar khan a écrit :
K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).


It's an felony to have such a copy.


No, it's not. It's not even a felony to make and distribute them.


You're assuming that Emmanuel refers to the US definition of felony.
Given that he's french, this is not guaranteed.

Also, doesn't the DMCA criminalise copyright violation?
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Nov 15 '05 #15

P: n/a
Mark McIntyre wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:36:08 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Skarmander
<in*****@dontmailme.com> wrote:

Emmanuel Delahaye wrote:
omar khan a écrit :
K&R yes, I have that eBook. : -).

It's an felony to have such a copy.


No, it's not. It's not even a felony to make and distribute them.

You're assuming that Emmanuel refers to the US definition of felony.
Given that he's french, this is not guaranteed.

Also, doesn't the DMCA criminalise copyright violation?


See elsewhere in this thread on the DMCA.

"Felony" is not exclusively US, but in general English it means "pretty
serious crime" (if you don't look too closely). It's just too strong a
term here. I'm not trying to get a language flame going here, mind you.
If you feel comfortable substituting "crime" and think I'm making too
sensitive a distinction, then by all means ignore it.

From what my limited skill in French can gather, "félonie" is certainly
not what he meant, since that doesn't refer to modern crime at all, but
to the original meaning of "feudal rebellion/treason". Even if there
were some cross-cultural/linguistic mixup, I'd still point out that the
word doesn't seem to mean quite what he wanted it to mean in English.

S.
Nov 15 '05 #16

P: n/a
"Walter Roberson" <ro******@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:dk*********@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
As a quick example: I've been working hard with the Cisco PIX Firewall
("Security Appliance") for four years, going carefully over its
documentation, creating reference material, making a nuisance of myself to the manufacturer, and deliberately seeking out and answering
literally thousands of questions so as to increase my understand of
it. Many people would say that I am a "PIX expert". Even so, I find
that at best I am able to answer 2 questions out of every 3, because
there is so much to know. The number of potential configuration
interactions on a device like the PIX is N factorial, where N is the
number of features. If the PIX had as few as 10 features, that would
be over 3 million potential feature interactions. If I had worked
8 hours a day, 365 days a year, for four years, I would have had
to have learned a new interaction every 12 seconds in order to know
all of those interactions by now.


Slacker.

--
Mabden
Nov 15 '05 #17

P: n/a
On 2005-10-31, Walter Roberson <ro******@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote:
In article <43***********************@news.xs4all.nl>,
Skarmander <in*****@dontmailme.com> wrote:
Without delving into the legalese too much, "felony" is a word reserved
for grave criminal offenses (for suitable values of "grave"). Copyright
violation is not one of them in any legal system I know of.


The US Digital Millenium Copyright Act introduced a new offence
of "criminal copyright violation" in instances where the value of
the copied work exceeded a certain value (and the limit is low enough
to include most name-brand commercial items whilst excluding
most personal writings and home businesses.)


Actually...
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cyberc...ectIII.htm#A2b
| In order to charge a felony violation of the criminal copyright
| statute, the government must also prove that the infringing copies
| have a total retail value of more than $2,500. In an era where,
| for example, even the most basic computer programs often can cost
| more than $100, this rarely proves difficult. However, the value
| of the infringing goods becomes more of an issue in sentencing.
| See "Sentencing Guidelines," infra, p. 37.
Nov 15 '05 #18

P: n/a
On 2005-10-31, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:
Skarmander <in*****@dontmailme.com> writes:
[...]
In any case, it's unlikely that merely owning an illicit copy of a
book classifies as a serious crime in any jurisdiction, or indeed as a
crime at all in most, let alone as a felony in those systems that make
the distinction.


Regardless of the legalities, possessing an illicit copy of K&R2 is
extremely inconsiderate to Mr. Kernighan and Mr. Ritchie. The
revenues from their book are part of their income; depriving them and
their publisher of those revenues for the sake of your own convenience
is rude.

If they had chosen to make the contents of the book freely available,
of course, it would be a completely different situation, but they
haven't done so.


Yes, that's very much true. This was only brought up because this is a
newsgroup full of nitpickers
Nov 15 '05 #19

P: n/a
In article <Qf*******************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> ,
Mabden <mabden@sbc_global.net> wrote:
"Walter Roberson" <ro******@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:dk*********@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
If the PIX had as few as 10 features, that would
be over 3 million potential feature interactions. If I had worked
8 hours a day, 365 days a year, for four years, I would have had
to have learned a new interaction every 12 seconds in order to know
all of those interactions by now.
Slacker.


Oh, the other 16 x 365 is for my other work.
--
"It is important to remember that when it comes to law, computers
never make copies, only human beings make copies. Computers are given
commands, not permission. Only people can be given permission."
-- Brad Templeton
Nov 15 '05 #20

P: n/a
Skarmander a écrit :
"Felony" is not exclusively US, but in general English it means "pretty
serious crime" (if you don't look too closely). It's just too strong a
term here. I'm not trying to get a language flame going here, mind you.
If you feel comfortable substituting "crime" and think I'm making too
sensitive a distinction, then by all means ignore it.

From what my limited skill in French can gather, "félonie" is certainly
not what he meant, since that doesn't refer to modern crime at all, but
to the original meaning of "feudal rebellion/treason". Even if there
were some cross-cultural/linguistic mixup, I'd still point out that the
word doesn't seem to mean quite what he wanted it to mean in English.


I meant a something more serious that an offence. If I understand
American-English correctly, the graduation is

- Offence (degradation, drunk-driving)
- Felony (extorsion, thieft)
- Crime (murder, rape)

--
C is a sharp tool
Nov 15 '05 #21

P: n/a
Emmanuel Delahaye <em**********@noos.fr> writes:
Skarmander a écrit :

[...]
From what my limited skill in French can gather, "félonie" is
certainly not what he meant, since that doesn't refer to modern
crime at all, but to the original meaning of "feudal
rebellion/treason". Even if there were some
cross-cultural/linguistic mixup, I'd still point out that the word
doesn't seem to mean quite what he wanted it to mean in English.


I meant a something more serious that an offence. If I understand
American-English correctly, the graduation is

- Offence (degradation, drunk-driving)
- Felony (extorsion, thieft)
- Crime (murder, rape)


In US law, felonies are the most serious crimes, typically punished by
several years or more in prison. The next step below that is a
misdemeanor, typically punished by 6 months or so in jail. Both
felonies and misdemeanors are considered crimes.

Something like speeding or running a red light is usually called a
violation, punished by a modest fine.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Nov 15 '05 #22

P: n/a
"Walter Roberson" <ro******@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:dk**********@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
In article <Qf*******************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> ,
Mabden <mabden@sbc_global.net> wrote:
"Walter Roberson" <ro******@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:dk*********@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
If the PIX had as few as 10 features, that would
be over 3 million potential feature interactions. If I had worked
8 hours a day, 365 days a year, for four years, I would have had
to have learned a new interaction every 12 seconds in order to know
all of those interactions by now.

Slacker.


Oh, the other 16 x 365 is for my other work.


Yeah, right! I'm sure you would have slipped in a little nap here and
there! ;-)

--
Mabden
Nov 15 '05 #23

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