P: n/a

I asked this on c.l.c++, but they suggested you folks may be better able to
answer.
Basically, I am trying to write code to detect overflows in signed integer
math. I am trying to make it as efficient as possible without resorting to
assembly language, and without causing undefined behavior. That, of course,
means catching the overflow before it happens.
What I asked was (stripping any relevance to C++):
If the range of an integer type is not symmetrical around zero
(i.e., 2's comp.), is it safe to assume that the extra value(s) is one
the negative side?
The reason is I am currently thinking it may be easiest to do the math as
unsigned, check for overflow, and then fixup the sign. I would handle the
fact that the range may not be symmetrical around zero as a corner case.
What I learned from the folks on the C++ group:
1) C and C++ Standards are equivalent on the treatment of signed/unsigned
values. I had thought (mistakenly, I guess) that they differed slightly.
2) That the Standard (should that always be capitalized?), C++ at least,
allows only three formats: 1's comp., 2's comp., and sign/magnitude. I
didn't realize this and thought that any format was allowed, and I was
worried about my code working correctly on some weird format I've never
heard of. If that is true, then my only "corner case" is with the maximum
(in magnitude) negative value in 2's complement.
I had thought this was a problem that had been beaten to death in both
languages, but I could find nothing on the web. Well, that's not true. The
stuff I did find always assumed that signed overflow was well behaved and
worked as unsigned.
Not relevant here, but I am attempting to write a class template that
behaves like Ada's ranged types (and subtypes). That is, for example, if X
+ Y overflows or strays out of its assigned range, it will throw an
exception.
Thanks,
REH  
Share this Question
P: n/a

REH wrote: If the range of an integer type is not symmetrical around zero (i.e., 2's comp.), is it safe to assume that the extra value(s) is one the negative side?
Yes. The Standard makes it clear that signed integer types are made up of a
sign bit, at least a certain number of value bits (15 for short int and
int, and 31 for long), and at least zero padding bits. Because the
representation of nonnegative values of signed integer types is the same
as for unsigned integer types, it is easy to see that there can be at most
only one "extra" value, and that value must be negative because the sign
bit will have to be set in order to get the extra bit combination. Think of
(heretical!) threebit ints, with the first of them being the sign bit:
Bit pattern Unsigned value Signed value
000 0 0
001 1 1
010 2 2
011 3 3
All remaining values must have the high bit set, and thus must be negative
in a signed type (irrespective of whether it's ones' complement, two's
complement, or signandmag).
What I learned from the folks on the C++ group:
1) C and C++ Standards are equivalent on the treatment of signed/unsigned values. I had thought (mistakenly, I guess) that they differed slightly.
No, they're equivalent TTBOMKAB. 2) That the Standard (should that always be capitalized?), C++ at least, allows only three formats: 1's comp., 2's comp., and sign/magnitude.
It's the same for C.

Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place"  dmr 29/7/1999 http://www.cpax.org.uk
mail: rjh at above domain  
P: n/a

REH wrote:
.... snip ... If the range of an integer type is not symmetrical around zero (i.e., 2's comp.), is it safe to assume that the extra value(s) is one the negative side?
The reason is I am currently thinking it may be easiest to do the math as unsigned, check for overflow, and then fixup the sign. I would handle the fact that the range may not be symmetrical around zero as a corner case.
No need to guess. For any integer type, the limiting values are
available in <limits.h>.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers."  Keith Thompson  
P: n/a

Richard Heathfield wrote: [...] Think of (heretical!) threebit ints, with the first of them being the sign bit:
Bit pattern Unsigned value Signed value 000 0 0 001 1 1 010 2 2 011 3 3
All remaining values must have the high bit set, and thus must be negative in a signed type (irrespective of whether it's ones' complement, two's complement, or signandmag).
100 could be zero, which is not negative:
if (minus_zero < 0  minus_zero > 0  minus_zero != 0) {
puts("This isn't C!");
puts("(Or else minus zero is a trap representation,\n"
"and you're only seeing this as a consequence\n"
"of undefined behavKUHYTDjn;lkUy97609i]*&^%$");
}
Although the example is flawed, the O.P.'s supposition is
correct: If the set of values is not symmetrical about zero,
the "extra" value must be negative:
 Signed magnitude: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which
is either "minus zero" or a trap representation. Even if
"minus zero" is allowed, its value is zero so the range
is symmetrical.
 Ones' complement: The "extra" encoding is 11...1, which
is either "minus zero" or a trap. As before, the range is
symmetrical.
 Two's complement: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which
is either minus twototheNth or a trap. If it's a trap
the range is symmetrical; otherwise, the range is
asymmetrical and the "extra" value is negative.
That covers all the representations permitted by the Standard,
and the only case in which the range is asymmetrical has more
negative than positive values.

Eric Sosman es*****@acmdotorg.invalid  
P: n/a

"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42**************@yahoo.com... No need to guess. For any integer type, the limiting values are available in <limits.h>.
Thanks, CB, but just knowing the limits does not make it trivial to
determine whether a given arithmetic operation will overflow.  
P: n/a

"Eric Sosman" <es*****@acmdotorg.invalid> wrote in message
news:cP********************@comcast.com... Although the example is flawed, the O.P.'s supposition is correct: If the set of values is not symmetrical about zero, the "extra" value must be negative:
 Signed magnitude: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which is either "minus zero" or a trap representation. Even if "minus zero" is allowed, its value is zero so the range is symmetrical.
 Ones' complement: The "extra" encoding is 11...1, which is either "minus zero" or a trap. As before, the range is symmetrical.
 Two's complement: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which is either minus twototheNth or a trap. If it's a trap the range is symmetrical; otherwise, the range is asymmetrical and the "extra" value is negative.
That covers all the representations permitted by the Standard, and the only case in which the range is asymmetrical has more negative than positive values.
Thank you Eric. Yours and Richard's posts were very helpful. Is there a
simple test to determine whether the minus zero or trap is used? Or, is
that unnecessary to know as long as the values do not overflow?
REH  
P: n/a

Eric Sosman wrote: Richard Heathfield wrote: All remaining values must have the high bit set, and thus must be negative in a signed type (irrespective of whether it's ones' complement, two's complement, or signandmag).
100 could be zero, which is not negative:
Oh, pooh.
Thank you for the correction!

Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place"  dmr 29/7/1999 http://www.cpax.org.uk
mail: rjh at above domain  
P: n/a

REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message No need to guess. For any integer type, the limiting values are available in <limits.h>.
Thanks, CB, but just knowing the limits does not make it trivial to determine whether a given arithmetic operation will overflow.
Yes it does. A preliminary calculation with one operand and the
limit will yield the maximum value for the other operand, so you
can avoid an overflow with a single comparison.
if (a > 0) {
if (b > 0)
if (a > (MAX_INT  b)) overflow();
}
else if (a < 0) {
if (b < 0)
if (a < (MIN_INT  b)) overflow();
}
etc.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers."  Keith Thompson  
P: n/a

"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42***************@yahoo.com... REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message Yes it does. A preliminary calculation with one operand and the limit will yield the maximum value for the other operand, so you can avoid an overflow with a single comparison.
if (a > 0) { if (b > 0) if (a > (MAX_INT  b)) overflow(); } else if (a < 0) { if (b < 0) if (a < (MIN_INT  b)) overflow(); } etc.
You are assuming just simple addition and subtraction. It is more complex
for other operations.
REH  
P: n/a

REH wrote: You are assuming just simple addition and subtraction. It is more complex for other operations.
Indeed it is. Testing for multiplication overflow cannot really be
done efficiently in C, except for lower sized integers.

Paul Hsieh http://www.pobox.com/~qed/ http://bstring.sf.net/  
P: n/a

<we******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... REH wrote: You are assuming just simple addition and subtraction. It is more complex for other operations.
Indeed it is. Testing for multiplication overflow cannot really be done efficiently in C, except for lower sized integers.
Well, efficiency is relative, but I am currently only concerned with it
being correct and standard compliant. For unsigned multiplication, I am
currently do something like (ignoring 0 for the example):
a = b * c;
if (c != a / b)
overflow();
I'm still deciding how to do signed multiplication, but I leaning towards
doing it as unsigned and fixing the sign afterwards. I would treat the
condition MIN_INT < MAX_INT as a special case.
thanks,
REH  
P: n/a

In article <oE*****************@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
"REH" <me@you.com> wrote: I asked this on c.l.c++, but they suggested you folks may be better able to answer.
Basically, I am trying to write code to detect overflows in signed integer math. I am trying to make it as efficient as possible without resorting to assembly language, and without causing undefined behavior. That, of course, means catching the overflow before it happens.
What I asked was (stripping any relevance to C++):
If the range of an integer type is not symmetrical around zero (i.e., 2's comp.), is it safe to assume that the extra value(s) is one the negative side?
The reason is I am currently thinking it may be easiest to do the math as unsigned, check for overflow, and then fixup the sign. I would handle the fact that the range may not be symmetrical around zero as a corner case.
What I learned from the folks on the C++ group:
1) C and C++ Standards are equivalent on the treatment of signed/unsigned values. I had thought (mistakenly, I guess) that they differed slightly.
2) That the Standard (should that always be capitalized?), C++ at least, allows only three formats: 1's comp., 2's comp., and sign/magnitude. I didn't realize this and thought that any format was allowed, and I was worried about my code working correctly on some weird format I've never heard of. If that is true, then my only "corner case" is with the maximum (in magnitude) negative value in 2's complement.
C99 only allows 1's comp, 2's comp and sign/magnitude.
An unsigned integer type has N value bits and can represent numbers from
0 to 2^n  1. A signed integer type has M value bits with M <= N and one
sign bit. It can represent positive numbers from 0 to 2^M  1. The range
of negative values depends on whether the implementation uses 2's comp
(2^M to 1) or 1's comp or sign/magnitude (2^M + 1 to 1).
To be hundred percent portable, you must realise that M = N is possible.
An implementation could use 32 bit 2's complement int (31 bit + sign
bit) and 31 bit unsigned int (31 bit + padding bit). That will obviously
give you more problems. (You can't have 16 bit signed and 15 bit
unsigned int, or 32 bit signed and 31 bit unsigned long, because
unsigned int and unsigned long must have at least 16 and 32 bits).  
P: n/a

REH wrote:
<snip over flow prevention in integer arithmetic> a = b * c; if (c != a / b) overflow();
I'm still deciding how to do signed multiplication, but I leaning towards doing it as unsigned and fixing the sign afterwards. I would treat the condition MIN_INT < MAX_INT as a special case.
Do you actually need the full range, or would it be good enough and
simpler to assume MIN_INT==MAX_INT and potentially flag negative
overflow early?

Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.  
P: n/a

"Flash Gordon" <sp**@flashgordon.me.uk> wrote in message
news:2p************@brenda.flashgordon.me.uk... REH wrote:
<snip over flow prevention in integer arithmetic>
a = b * c; if (c != a / b) overflow();
I'm still deciding how to do signed multiplication, but I leaning towards doing it as unsigned and fixing the sign afterwards. I would treat the condition MIN_INT < MAX_INT as a special case.
Do you actually need the full range, or would it be good enough and simpler to assume MIN_INT==MAX_INT and potentially flag negative overflow early? 
Hi Flash. Yes, I want to allow the full scale of any numerical type
(though, I am I only concentrating on integral types for now).
REH  
P: n/a

REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Yes it does. A preliminary calculation with one operand and the limit will yield the maximum value for the other operand, so you can avoid an overflow with a single comparison.
if (a > 0) { if (b > 0) if (a > (MAX_INT  b)) overflow(); } else if (a < 0) { if (b < 0) if (a < (MIN_INT  b)) overflow(); } etc.
You are assuming just simple addition and subtraction. It is more complex for other operations.
Yes it is. But the information you need is there in <limits.h>.
You will find div(), ldiv(), and lldiv useful. Of course the
proper way to do it is for the actual object code to trap
overflows, which is ridiculously easy on the x86 at least, and most
grown up computer architectures, including the DS9000. On the x86
it only involves an INTO instruction. The standard only says that
the overflow action is implementation defined.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers."  Keith Thompson  
P: n/a

In article <42***************@yahoo.com>,
CBFalconer <cb********@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Of course the proper way to do it is for the actual object code to trap overflows, which is ridiculously easy on the x86 at least, and most grown up computer architectures, including the DS9000.
I thought it was the other way around  that on the DS9000,
arithmetic overflow triggered a Bengal Programmer Trap.

Ceci, ce n'est pas une idée.  
P: n/a

"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42***************@yahoo.com... REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message Yes it is. But the information you need is there in <limits.h>. You will find div(), ldiv(), and lldiv useful. Of course the proper way to do it is for the actual object code to trap overflows, which is ridiculously easy on the x86 at least, and most grown up computer architectures, including the DS9000. On the x86 it only involves an INTO instruction. The standard only says that the overflow action is implementation defined.
Yes, but I am trying to do it without resorting to assembly language because
my code must run on various platforms and processors. So, I am trying to
avoid causing a trap condition or undefined behavior. Of course, now that I
know the possible formats is quite limited, and not openended as I had
feared, it's not that bad. Well, not that bad yet. In the future, I want
to expand the code to handle floating points. Which, I believe, could get
messy...
Thanks,
REH  
P: n/a

REH wrote: <we******@gmail.com> wrote in message REH wrote: You are assuming just simple addition and subtraction. It is more complex for other operations. Indeed it is. Testing for multiplication overflow cannot really be done efficiently in C, except for lower sized integers.
Well, efficiency is relative, [...]
Well if you are willing to perform divisions, then indeed it most
certainly is!
[...] but I am currently only concerned with it being correct and standard compliant. For unsigned multiplication, I am currently do something like (ignoring 0 for the example):
a = b * c; if (c != a / b) overflow();
That's fine except for when b is zero. How about:
if (0 != b && a/b != c) overflow ();
If you want to skip the cost of the division in many cases, then:
#define HALF_WAY (1 << (sizeof (unsigned)+1)/2)
if ((bc) >= HALF_WAY &&
((b >= HALF_WAY && c >= HALF_WAY)  (0 != b && a/b != c)))
overflow ();
And of course you can go further by simulating the multiply as 4
smaller multiplies and then checking the high multiply then the sum of
the other 3 for overflow.
All this for what can be done in basically 1 to 3 more instructions in
most assembly languages.
I'm still deciding how to do signed multiplication, but I leaning towards doing it as unsigned and fixing the sign afterwards.
Probably best.
[...] I would treat the condition MIN_INT < MAX_INT as a special case.
Right, you have no choice.

Paul Hsieh http://www.pobox.com/~qed/ http://bstring.sf.net/  
P: n/a

REH wrote: Thank you Eric. Yours and Richard's posts were very helpful. Is there a simple test to determine whether the minus zero or trap is used? Or, is that unnecessary to know as long as the values do not overflow?
First question: I can't think of any 100% safe way to
test whether a data object holds a trap representation 
because if it does, simply trying to look at it may cause
the trap. (You could inspect the bytes as an array of
unsigned char and compare them to known trap representations,
but that begs the question.)
Second question: Ordinary arithmetic will never produce
a trap representation from valid operands unless something
like overflow or division by zero occurs.
As a practical matter, you can probably rely on integers
using two's complement with no trap representations. Other
schemes are allowed by the Standard and have been used in
real computers, but those designs have become as rare as the
ivorybilled woodpecker, if not the dodo. If you can write
your code without relying on such an assumption, fine  but
you probably needn't bend over backwards to cater to what is
nowadays an awfully remote possibility. (Besides, where are
you going to find test systems of all six architectural flavors,
five exceedingly rare if they exist at all?) Go ahead and
assume asymmetrical two's complement, and insert
#include <limits.h>
#if INT_MIN + INT_MAX != 1
/* Not asymmetrical two's complement */
#error "This shortsighted code can't cope!"
#endif
.... so the code will kick up a ruckus instead of delivering
wrong answers if someone ever tries it on an exotic machine.
(I hope you realize the risk I'm taking to offer practical
advice: I'm likely to lose my Pedant's License over this breach
of orthodoxy! "Cardinal Fang, fetch ... the Comfy Chair!")

Eric Sosman es*****@acmdotorg.invalid  
P: n/a

Eric Sosman wrote: Richard Heathfield wrote:
[...] Think of (heretical!) threebit ints, with the first of them being the sign bit:
Bit pattern Unsigned value Signed value 000 0 0 001 1 1 010 2 2 011 3 3
All remaining values must have the high bit set, and thus must be negative in a signed type (irrespective of whether it's ones' complement, two's complement, or signandmag).
100 could be zero, which is not negative:
if (minus_zero < 0  minus_zero > 0  minus_zero != 0) { puts("This isn't C!"); puts("(Or else minus zero is a trap representation,\n" "and you're only seeing this as a consequence\n" "of undefined behavKUHYTDjn;lkUy97609i]*&^%$"); }
Although the example is flawed, the O.P.'s supposition is correct: If the set of values is not symmetrical about zero, the "extra" value must be negative:
 Signed magnitude: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which is either "minus zero" or a trap representation. Even if "minus zero" is allowed, its value is zero so the range is symmetrical.
 Ones' complement: The "extra" encoding is 11...1, which is either "minus zero" or a trap. As before, the range is symmetrical.
 Two's complement: The "extra" encoding is 10...0, which is either minus twototheNth or a trap. If it's a trap the range is symmetrical; otherwise, the range is asymmetrical and the "extra" value is negative.
That would be "minus twotothe(N1)th" surely. Two's complement 100 in
our threebit model is 4.
That covers all the representations permitted by the Standard, and the only case in which the range is asymmetrical has more negative than positive values.

Joe Wright
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
 Albert Einstein   
P: n/a

<we******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... REH wrote: Well, efficiency is relative, [...] Well if you are willing to perform divisions, then indeed it most certainly is!
My point was under many circumstances, that won't matter. People spend way
to much time worrying about speed before it is even an issue. If, for
example, a realtime system can meet all of its scheduled deadlines with
the required amount of reserved processor time, then what does it matter if
it takes twice as long as it could without the checks? Or, take a
commandline tool executed from the shell. Whether it takes 1ms or 100ms,
it is still "instantaneous" to the user. [...] but I am currently only concerned with it being correct and standard compliant. For unsigned multiplication, I am currently do something like (ignoring 0 for the example):
a = b * c; if (c != a / b) overflow(); That's fine except for when b is zero.
Yes, reread what I wrote above.
How about:
if (0 != b && a/b != c) overflow ();
If you want to skip the cost of the division in many cases, then:
#define HALF_WAY (1 << (sizeof (unsigned)+1)/2) if ((bc) >= HALF_WAY && ((b >= HALF_WAY && c >= HALF_WAY)  (0 != b && a/b != c))) overflow ();
And of course you can go further by simulating the multiply as 4 smaller multiplies and then checking the high multiply then the sum of the other 3 for overflow.
All this for what can be done in basically 1 to 3 more instructions in most assembly languages.
I prefer simpler, easy to read code. I worry about speed when its an issue.
I don't plan to use this code in generating an FFT. For such code, with a
lot going on in tight loops, it would probably matter. In many other types
of code, I doubt you would notice any difference.
REH  
P: n/a

"REH" <me@you.com> writes: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:42***************@yahoo.com... REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message Yes it is. But the information you need is there in <limits.h>. You will find div(), ldiv(), and lldiv useful. Of course the proper way to do it is for the actual object code to trap overflows, which is ridiculously easy on the x86 at least, and most grown up computer architectures, including the DS9000. On the x86 it only involves an INTO instruction. The standard only says that the overflow action is implementation defined.
Yes, but I am trying to do it without resorting to assembly language because my code must run on various platforms and processors. So, I am trying to avoid causing a trap condition or undefined behavior. Of course, now that I know the possible formats is quite limited, and not openended as I had feared, it's not that bad. Well, not that bad yet. In the future, I want to expand the code to handle floating points. Which, I believe, could get messy...
If speed isn't too much of a concern, you might consider using an
arbitraryprecision arithmetic package, perhaps GNU MP.

Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.  
P: n/a

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:09:35 +0000, CBFalconer wrote: REH wrote: "CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message No need to guess. For any integer type, the limiting values are available in <limits.h>.
Thanks, CB, but just knowing the limits does not make it trivial to determine whether a given arithmetic operation will overflow.
Yes it does. A preliminary calculation with one operand and the limit will yield the maximum value for the other operand, so you can avoid an overflow with a single comparison.
if (a > 0) { if (b > 0) if (a > (MAX_INT  b)) overflow(); } else if (a < 0) { if (b < 0) if (a < (MIN_INT  b)) overflow(); } etc.
This seems overly complex, (testing overflow on a+b) how about :
if (b >= 0) {
if (a > MAX_INT  b) overflow();
} else {
if (a < MIN_INT  b) overflow();
}
or
overflow = (a >= 0) ? b > MAX_INTa : b < MIN_INTa;
For testing overflow of ab that changes to:
if (b >= 0) {
if (a < MIN_INT + b) overflow();
} else {
if (a > MAX_INT + b) overflow();
}
These do work when MIN_INT < MAX_INT.
Testing for multiplication oveflow is certainly trickier to do fully on
signed values with the possibility of MIN_INT < MAX_INT, and MAX_UINT ==
MAX_INT. Any code that might calculate MIN_INT/1 needs to be looked at
carefully.
Lawrence  
P: n/a

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:41:24 GMT, "REH" <me@you.com> wrote: I asked this on c.l.c++, but they suggested you folks may be better able to answer.
Basically, I am trying to write code to detect overflows in signed integer math. I am trying to make it as efficient as possible without resorting to assembly language, and without causing undefined behavior. That, of course, means catching the overflow before it happens.
is it just for unsigned? or for signed too?
;int over()
over:
mov eax, 0
adc eax, 0
ret
y=a+b;
if(over()) overflow();
or
if( (y=a+b), over()) overflow();
if( (z=ab), over()) overflow();  
P: n/a

"cs" <n@ss.g> wrote in message
news:h5********************************@4ax.com...
.... is it just for unsigned? or for signed too? ;int over() over: mov eax, 0 adc eax, 0 ret
y=a+b; if(over()) overflow();
or if( (y=a+b), over()) overflow(); if( (z=ab), over()) overflow();
It's for unsigned only. You need to check the OVerflow flag instead of CarrY
when adding/subtracting signed integers on x86. And it's trickier when one
operand is signed but the other isn't.
Alex  
P: n/a

"Eric Sosman" <es*****@acmdotorg.invalid> wrote in message
news:5N*****************************************@c omcast.com...
.... As a practical matter, you can probably rely on integers using two's complement with no trap representations. Other schemes are allowed by the Standard and have been used in real computers, but those designs have become as rare as the ivorybilled woodpecker, if not the dodo.
Quite right. There's no reason to implement signed numbers as 1's complement
or sign+magnitude. The same full adder circuit will deliver the correct sum
(or difference, if properly wired for subtraction) for both unsigned and 2's
complement signed numbers. The only thing I can think of where the 1's
complement or sign+magnitude scheme would be employed (both these schemes
are practically equivalent in their inefficiency, though 1's complement is
somewhat closer to 2's complement) is when this stuff is already implemented
in some floating point unit like one IEEE754compliant (whose floating
point types have the sign+magnitude representation) and integer math is
derived from it for free (well, except for slowness). But that's usually
something stupid to do. The thing is, integer signed
addition/subtraction/comparison/negation/magnitude and multiplication
procedures are all very simple. Even multiplication of signed 2's complement
numbers can be done directly using the Booth's algorithm, which is very
efficient in hardware and with one extra bit in operands (this bit is
normally hidden in hardware) it can produce products for unsigned*unsigned,
signed*signed, and unsigned*signed forms of the MUL (or whatever)
instruction.
(Besides, where are you going to find test systems of all six architectural flavors, five exceedingly rare if they exist at all?) Go ahead and assume asymmetrical two's complement, and insert
I've never seen 1's complemented and sign+module implementations myself.
Their time has gone.
Btw, regarding the padding bits... Do I correctly understand that the
padding bits must not be between sign bit and the others making up the
magnitude/value, i.e. MSB>PPPSVVV<LSB?
Alex  
P: n/a

"Alexei A. Frounze" wrote:
.... snip ... I've never seen 1's complemented and sign+module implementations myself. Their time has gone.
You see signmagnitude all the time in the floating point package.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers."  Keith Thompson  
P: n/a

"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43***************@yahoo.com... "Alexei A. Frounze" wrote: I've never seen 1's complemented and sign+module implementations myself. Their time has gone.
You see signmagnitude all the time in the floating point package.
There  yes, but not in integers.
Alex   This discussion thread is closed Replies have been disabled for this discussion.   Question stats  viewed: 3498
 replies: 27
 date asked: Nov 15 '05
