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K&R3?

Hello,

does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...

Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?

Regards,
Ralph

Nov 14 '05 #1
15 1743
"Ralph A. Moeritz" <ra****@sie.co.za> writes:
does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty... Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?

(sorry, just adding to your questions)
Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
new features? Thanks,

__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Dr Chris McDonald E: ch***@csse.uwa.edu.au
Computer Science & Software Engineering W: http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~chris
The University of Western Australia, M002 T: +618 6488 2533
Crawley, Western Australia, 6009 F: +618 6488 1089
Nov 14 '05 #2
Ralph A. Moeritz wrote:
does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...

Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?


I think "C: A Reference Manual" has a good reputation around here.
http://www.careferencemanual.com/
Nov 14 '05 #3

Chris McDonald wrote:
"Ralph A. Moeritz" <ra****@sie.co.za> writes:
does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...
Last I heard (around 2000), they had not decided whether to write a
third edition but had no plans to do so. If anyone has heard anything
more recently, please share.
Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?
(sorry, just adding to your questions)
Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
new features? Thanks,


C: A Reference Manual 5th edition is highly recommended, it is more of
a reference than a textbook but everything is well-covered and
thoroughly explained with examples and details. It covers C99, C89,
and traditional C.

C Programming: A Modern Approach is a highly regarded textbook, the
second edition will cover C99 and is due out any time now. The first
edition covers C89.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Dr Chris McDonald E: ch***@csse.uwa.edu.au
Computer Science & Software Engineering W: http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~chris The University of Western Australia, M002 T: +618 6488 2533
Crawley, Western Australia, 6009 F: +618 6488 1089


Rob Gamble

Nov 14 '05 #4
On 30 Mar 2005 00:24:47 -0800, in comp.lang.c , "Ralph A. Moeritz"
<ra****@sie.co.za> wrote:
Hello,

does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...
Never, according to what i believe one of the authors has posted.
Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?


I believe the ACCU website lists a few, as do the FAQ and Welcome
message for this group.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

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Nov 14 '05 #5
Mark McIntyre wrote:
On 30 Mar 2005 00:24:47 -0800, in comp.lang.c , "Ralph A. Moeritz"
<ra****@sie.co.za> wrote:
Hello,

does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...
Never, according to what i believe one of the authors has posted.
Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?


I believe the ACCU website lists a few, as do the FAQ and Welcome
message for this group.


I really don't have much to add, but I'm checking the distribution of
our company news server. It's been feeling poorly for quite some time.

Brian
#! rnews 886
Xref: xyzzy comp.lang.c++:650933
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
Path: xyzzy!nntp
From: "Default User" <fi********@boeing.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: beginners program
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Organization: The Boeing Company
References: <11*********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:53:38 GMT

ro***********@cfu.net wrote:
i am new to c++ and am practicing programs. i am trying to write a
program that a user enters a sequence of numbers and the program will
pick out the lowest and highest numbers in the bunch. i will enter
-99 to exit the loop. any one help?
What have you done so far?

This is not a homework service.

Brian
#! rnews 1084
Xref: xyzzy rec.arts.sf.written:1070530
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Path: xyzzy!nntp
From: "Default User" <fi********@boeing.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: future gods
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: pls025033.mw.nos.boeing.com
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Message-ID: <IE********@news.boeing.com>
User-Agent: XanaNews/1.16.3.1
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Organization: The Boeing Company
References: <p8********************@rogers.com> <42**************@optusnet.com.au> <d2**********@rainier.uits.indiana.edu> <pu********************@look.ca> <42**************@optusnet.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:58:00 GMT

Mike Williams wrote:

Some Japanese tourists visit Australia on package tours, staying in
Japanese owned hotels, touring in Japanese owned buses and then
shopping in Japanese stores (where once Australians were forbidden to
shop) so they could buy fluffy koalas, kangaroos and such that were
"Made in Japan".

I bet that would be appealing to many Mericans when traveling the nasty
foreign spots.

Brian
#! rnews 1514
Xref: xyzzy rec.arts.comics.strips:131083
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.strips
Path: xyzzy!nntp
From: "Default User" <fi********@boeing.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: FBOW 03/30/05 SPOILER
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: pls025033.mw.nos.boeing.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
Message-ID: <IE********@news.boeing.com>
User-Agent: XanaNews/1.16.3.1
Sender: nn**@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access)
Organization: The Boeing Company
References: <s5********************************@4ax.com> <d2***********@bizet.nethelp.no> <pa****************************@access4less.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:59:49 GMT

Peter B. Steiger wrote:
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:46:37 +0000, Cindy Kandolf sez:
Dunno. But to get an idea of some of the cr@p people really do
dream up, try http://www.etiquettehell.com/ - under "Everyday
Etiquette" there's a section about Baby Showers. I saw several
baby shower as fund raiser stories on the first page. I'd look for
evidence of actual baby-holding auctions, but the background is bad
on my eyes at the best of times and is just about giving me a
headache tonight. Which is a pity, because it's a funny site,
really.


Holy mother of Martha Stewart, this is an awful site... just knowing
there are people in the world like that scares me. I guess FBOFW
wasn't so unrealistically over-the-top after all!


I read Miss Manners when I see the column in the paper. It's so
prevelant it's not even funny these days.


Brian
Nov 14 '05 #6
In article <d2**********@enyo.uwa.edu.au>, Chris McDonald
<ch***@csse.uwa.edu.au> writes
"Ralph A. Moeritz" <ra****@sie.co.za> writes:
does anyone have a clue when/if we might see K&R3? K&R2 is starting
to feel a little dusty...

Can anyone recommend any other good printed reference material?

(sorry, just adding to your questions)
Similarly, can anyone recommend/comment on any textbooks which
specifically focus on C99, and are not sloppy in their treatment of
new features? Thanks,


This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.

In any event a new substantial TC for C99 has just been issued.

Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
into a C05 later this year.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Nov 14 '05 #7
Chris Hills wrote:
This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.


Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?

<ot_ramble>
For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
about.
</ot_ramble>

--
Sean
Nov 14 '05 #8
In article <h9**************@news.abs.net>, Fao, Sean
<en**********@yahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> writes
Chris Hills wrote:
This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.


Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?


No.
Besides there are other books that cover C99.

In any event it will be C05 soon AFAIK

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Nov 14 '05 #9
On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.org> wrote:
Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
into a C05 later this year.


I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Nov 14 '05 #10
Mark McIntyre <ma**********@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.org> wrote:
Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
into a C05 later this year.


I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.


C05 (if there is one) will just be C99 as revised by TC1 and TC2, so
those statements are not contradictory.

-Larry Jones

Let's pretend I already feel terrible about it, and that you
don't need to rub it in any more. -- Calvin
Nov 14 '05 #11
In article <ft********************************@4ax.com>, Mark McIntyre
<ma**********@spamcop.net> writes
On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:32:34 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.org> wrote:
Though it is my understanding that both the C99 TC's will be rolled
into a C05 later this year.


I believe that one of the committee members posted recently to say
that there were /no/ plans for any new C standard any time soon.


That is not what I saw on the committee reflector. There was an intend
to role TC1 and TC2 into the standard to give C05

However that would be it until 2012

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Nov 14 '05 #12
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:37:32 -0400, Fao, Sean
<en**********@yahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> wrote:
Chris Hills wrote:
This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.


Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?

<ot_ramble>
For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
about.
</ot_ramble>


The problem is that not only the compiler but the library as well needs
to be compliant, and that's where I've found deficiencies (notably in
printf() not supporting the newer numeric sizes like maxint_t and
size_t, and in newer math.h functions being missing). Some of those,
like the math.h functions, are impossible to replace in a portable way
(the nan() functions, for example, depend on knowing the representations
of floating point on your machine).

I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need (I don't need VLAs,
for instance, which is one area I know it has trouble), but it relies on
the system's library in most cases and that is too variable to be
depended on.

(Yes, there is the Dinkumware library, but in the Real World(tm) people
who write software for organisations aren't always in a position to say
"you must buy this library" and many organisations won't allow 3rd-party
libraries anyway.)

Not that I think a K&R3 would be at all a bad thing, I think it could
only help, I just don't think that on its own it will cause a massed
rush to C99 (indeed, if new programmers read it and then find that their
compiler doesn't support the features they are more likely to give up).

Chris C
Nov 15 '05 #13
In article <sl******************@ccserver.keris.net>, Chris Croughton
<ch***@keristor.net> writes
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:37:32 -0400, Fao, Sean
<en**********@yahoo.comI-WANT-NO-SPAM> wrote:
Chris Hills wrote:
This is probably because there are [virtually] no C99 complaint
compilers out there.
Just possibly, do you think writing a K&R 3rd edition with emphasis on
C99 would encourage more developers to write C99 compliant compilers?
Not in the slightest.

<ot_ramble>
For the most part, gcc is C99 compliant enough to suit my needs. Now
I don't know the standard inside and out like some of the regulars
here (e.g. Dan Pop), however, I've found the C99 support to be
satisfactory. Now take that for whatever it's worth --probably
nothing ;-) --, because it's very likely that I'm missing out on at
least a couple of things I could benefit from that I don't even know
about.
</ot_ramble>


The problem is that not only the compiler but the library as well needs
to be compliant, and that's where I've found deficiencies (notably in
printf() not supporting the newer numeric sizes like maxint_t and
size_t, and in newer math.h functions being missing). Some of those,
like the math.h functions, are impossible to replace in a portable way
(the nan() functions, for example, depend on knowing the representations
of floating point on your machine).

I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need


so it's not C99 compliant then?
(I don't need VLAs,
for instance, which is one area I know it has trouble), but it relies on
the system's library in most cases and that is too variable to be
depended on.

(Yes, there is the Dinkumware library, but in the Real World(tm) people
who write software for organisations aren't always in a position to say
"you must buy this library" and many organisations won't allow 3rd-party
libraries anyway.)
Also it may not be suitable for the target.
Not that I think a K&R3 would be at all a bad thing, I think it could
only help, I just don't think that on its own it will cause a massed
rush to C99 (indeed, if new programmers read it and then find that their
compiler doesn't support the features they are more likely to give up).


Very true. OTOH if the community of developers wanted C99 I am sure that
the writers would provide it.

There appears to be no commercial (or Engineering) requirement to do
C99. Or rather move from C90 (+A1 etc)

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Nov 15 '05 #14
Chris Hills <ch***@phaedsys.org> writes:
In article <sl******************@ccserver.keris.net>, Chris Croughton

[...]
I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need


so it's not C99 compliant then?


No, it's not. I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Nov 15 '05 #15
In article <ln************@nuthaus.mib.org>, Keith Thompson <kst-
u@mib.org> writes
Chris Hills <ch***@phaedsys.org> writes:
In article <sl******************@ccserver.keris.net>, Chris Croughton

[...]
I've found that gcc is as C99 compliant as I need


so it's not C99 compliant then?


No, it's not. I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise.


I have seen quite a few claim it but you are correct the OP was not
claiming complete compliance.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Nov 15 '05 #16

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