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C programming Newbee

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Hi ALL,

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??

I am also looking for resources for C programming on Internet with
examples on each concept.

I appreciate if any one can help me in this regard.

Kanthi Kiran.

Nov 14 '05 #1
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26 Replies


P: n/a
On 12 Mar 2005 09:10:59 -0800, in comp.lang.c , "Kanthi Kiran Narisetti"
<Te********@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ALL,

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??


Doesn't matter what OS - you choose the one that works best for you in other
ways. If you plan to graduate into programming professionally, you'll probably
need to do GUI programming for both.

As for the GUI, MS, Borland and probably a few others have free/cheap downloads
of either old or beta versions of their compiler toolsets, and there's at least
one free IDE available for windows. A google search should show them up.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Nov 14 '05 #2

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In article <11**********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>,
Kanthi Kiran Narisetti <Te********@gmail.com> writes
Hi ALL,

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??

Why do you want to learn to program?
Why C?

This should answer the question as to which platform and partly which
IDE. Maybe even which compiler.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Nov 14 '05 #3

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no*@given.out wrote:
(note: Don't confuse C with C++ ... C++ is a superset of C that uses more complex (read: "confusing") programming concepts; something you probably shouldn't tackle until you are comfortable in C first.)


I think C++ may be easier to learn than C if one uses the Standard
Template Library. For example, the C++ vector is easier to use and
safer (out-of-bounds errors are caught) than the C/C++ array. One can
get more done in C++ than C without using "complex programming
concepts" such as pointers. There is a trend in C++ books to use the
STL early, for example in the books "C++ Primer" and "Accelerated C++".

Maybe we both agree that the basics of procedural programming -- loops,
if statements, functions should be mastered before tackling
object-oriented programming.

Nov 14 '05 #4

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be*******@aol.com wrote:

I think C++ may be easier to learn than C if one uses the Standard
Template Library.
Sorry, but I think thats one of the worst pieces of advice I
have ever seen on usenet (which I have been reading regularly
since 1991).
For example, the C++ vector is easier to use and
safer (out-of-bounds errors are caught) than the C/C++ array.


The STL related error messages produced by all the C++
compilers I have ever seen are simply atrocious. C++ is
also the most complex, baroque and least forgiving
programming language in existence.

The other poster didn't state whether he already programmed
in other langugages or whether C was going to be his first.

If he is looking for a first lagunage C++ is an especially
bad choice in comparison to Java, Python and even C.

If the original poster already knows another language it
probablt is Java or C++ and he is looking to learn C.

Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo no****@mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"A subversive is anyone who can out-argue their government"
Nov 14 '05 #5

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Hi,

I an Windows Systems administrator (wanting to migrate to Linux
Administration) with little or no knowledge on programming. I want to
learn a programming language like C to learn the concepts of
programming and then switch to Prog Lang which suits my job like Perl .
As i have done C upto basic level in the past in my academics i felt i
should start with C which would be easy and i can pick up fast.

What i am looking is for now is a good online resources for C with
examples for easy and fast understanding or any tutorials with
examples.

I wanted to start of with Linux Programming with examples as it had
good reviews on net but this book is not available at my place :-(

Thank You..
Kanthi

Nov 14 '05 #6

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Hi

I don't know of any good online resource, but "Schaum's Outline of
Programming with C" is a good book. It's like 10 bucs. thin, concise
and to the point.

As far as an ide goes, I think you should stick with something simple
(maybe even notepad?). Fancy ides will only distract you with features
that you'll never use at this level.

Nov 14 '05 #7

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pepsikolanut wrote:

<snip>
As far as an ide goes, I think you should stick with something simple
(maybe even notepad?). Fancy ides will only distract you with features that you'll never use at this level.


I don't like fancy IDEs either, but the syntax coloring and smart
indenting of text editors such as Emacs or XEmacs (both free) is very
helpful, especially when there are modes for many different programming
languages (so one does not need to learn a separate editor for each
language), including C. Notepad was not designed as a programming
editor and does not have these features, I believe, so I would not
recommend it for writing code.

Nov 14 '05 #8

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Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:
Hi,

I an Windows Systems administrator (wanting to migrate to Linux
Administration) with little or no knowledge on programming. I want to learn a programming language like C to learn the concepts of
programming and then switch to Prog Lang which suits my job like Perl

<snip>

I suggest you forget about C for the time being. Get an HP TestDrive
account, and write shell scripts on different Unix platforms for the
next 3 months. Play around with awk, sed, grep and friends.

After that, spend a year or two on Perl. Carefully read "Programming
Perl", and complete several ambitios real-world projects using Perl.
Tirelessly refactor and revisit your code. Attempt to master Perl.

Later on down the road, if you find that you still want to learn C,
then your experience with the Unix environment and your general
programming experience is going to make life much easier for you.

Feel free to ignore my advice. If you do, though, remember to read the
FAQ before posting your questions.
Mark F. Haigh
mf*****@sbcglobal.net

Nov 14 '05 #9

P: n/a
Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

Hi,

I an Windows Systems administrator (wanting to migrate to Linux
Administration) with little or no knowledge on programming. I want to
learn a programming language like C to learn the concepts of
programming and then switch to Prog Lang which suits my job like Perl .


OK, now we know what you want.

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.

And if you are thinking of Perl, why not try Python instead?
Python fulfils many of the same roles as Perl but is far more
readable and easier for beginners.

Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo no****@mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Microsoft is finally bringing all of its Windows operating system families
under one roof. It will combine all of the features of CE, stability and
support of ME and the speed of NT.
It will be called Windows CEMENT...
Nov 14 '05 #10

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no*@given.out scribbled the following:
(note: Don't confuse C with C++ ... C++ is a superset of C that uses more
complex (read: "confusing") programming concepts; something you probably
shouldn't tackle until you are comfortable in C first.)


Sorry, but C++ was never a superset of C. They are two separate
languages sharing a common, quite large, subset. But there are some C
features that don't work in C++.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-------------------------------------------------------- rules! --------/
"Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schitzophrenic and so am I."
- Bob Wiley
Nov 14 '05 #11

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"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gmail.com> wrote

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??
You won't normally have a choice which OS to program under. If the company
decides that the target market is Windows users, then its no use saying that
you prefer Linux. So you've got to be prepared to use whatever you have.

Having said that, as a total newbie you will be writing command-line
programs and it doesn't really matter what you run under. However fairly
soon most people want a bit of graphical output. This isn't easy, since both
Windows and X-Windows are pretty unfriendly.
A lot of people want the functions
Window * openwindow(int width, int height)
closewindow(Window *win)
drawpixel(Window *win, int x, int y, unsigned char r, unsigned char g,
unsigned char b)

and pretty much just that. However implementing these functions on either
Windows or Linux is a pain, for various reasons.

Nov 14 '05 #12

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"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.

I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so why
bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written
in C. So if you want to understand your tools it's a good idea to start with
a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages,
which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.
Nov 14 '05 #13

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Malcolm wrote:
"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.
I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so

why bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".
Being fluent in Perl and the Unix environment is akin to being an EMT
(emergency medical technician), but with no knowledge of math or
physics.

Like it or not, you don't want a mathematician, physicist, chemist, or
biologist when you're having a heart attack. You want an EMT. Someone
who can get the job done.

For the job of Unix system administration, knowledge of Perl and Unix
tools are akin to being an EMT. If you want to become a brain surgeon
(kernel / tools hacking), learn C. But you can learn brain surgery
later. And also note that being a brain surgeon without knowing how to
be an EMT sounds silly, now doesn't it?

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written in C. So if you want to understand your tools
<snip>

If you want to understand your tools, then work at trying to understand
your tools. C can help you understand the implementation details of
your tools, but implementation details change more often than the tools
themselves.

it's a good idea to start with
a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages, which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.


A programmer with several notches in his belt can pick up an assembly
language book and understand it. Give the same book to a green
programmer and you have more questions than answers. For most people,
assembly is not necessary. For many people, C is not necessary.
Mark F. Haigh

Nov 14 '05 #14

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Malcolm wrote:
"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.
I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so

why bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written in C. So if you want to understand your tools it's a good idea to start with a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages, which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.


Hi Eric & Malcom,

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(Linux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.

Thank You.
Kanthi

Nov 14 '05 #15

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Malcolm wrote:
"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gmail.com> wrote
I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??


You won't normally have a choice which OS to program under. If the company
decides that the target market is Windows users, then its no use saying that
you prefer Linux. So you've got to be prepared to use whatever you have.

Having said that, as a total newbie you will be writing command-line
programs and it doesn't really matter what you run under. However fairly
soon most people want a bit of graphical output. This isn't easy, since both
Windows and X-Windows are pretty unfriendly.
A lot of people want the functions
Window * openwindow(int width, int height)
closewindow(Window *win)
drawpixel(Window *win, int x, int y, unsigned char r, unsigned char g,
unsigned char b)

and pretty much just that. However implementing these functions on either
Windows or Linux is a pain, for various reasons.


Yeah, makes one miss the good old Amiga :-)
Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.
Nov 14 '05 #16

P: n/a
Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(Linux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.


The thing is that programming is a craft (even though you can make
an art or science of it but that's the same with every craft).
Learning a craft needs much and regular exercise.
If you learn with a programming language you can use in your daily
work and if you actually use it as soon as you can then you have
a better chance of getting the necessary exercise than if you only
play around a couple of hours per week far from real applications.

That said and even though I know that many people think differently,
I can recommend C as a first language. If you value conceptual
clarity, then it is certainly in some sense better for you than
perl where people without previous experiences in other languages
are somewhat challenged to find a clean and consistent programming
style. I have never had a real look at Python but have heard that
it is in this respect better than perl, so it may well be a good
choice as a starting language.
perl and Python both certainly enable you to get things done in your
job earlier, so that you get motivated earlier by some sort of
"return of investment".
Before the perl lovers beat me up as perl ranks last as a good
beginners' language in this comparison: In perl, you can pick up
many bad habits and get away with it. It is hard to unlearn these
habits later. C is much less forgiving which is IMO a good thing.
Nonetheless, if I want to Get Things Done, perl is often my first
choice.

As for learning C: I recommend the K&R2 book and, as soon as you
feel confident to tackle real world problems (after some months),
"C Unleashed".
After that proceed with whatever tutorials and books you want to
or have to read.
Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.
Nov 14 '05 #17

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Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

<snip>
Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(Linux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.


[OT]

If you were a CS student, I'd say learn Python. But since you want to
be a Unix sysadmin, learn Perl. Perl's syntax and heritage is very
Unixy, very loose, integrates well with the most popular web server on
Earth, and directly inherits from C, sh, and awk. Python is stricter,
more of an OOP breed, and more isolated, linguistically speaking.

Back on topic: it doesn't matter. Pick Perl or Python. C is probably
not what you want. Again, feel free to ignore my advice and learn C
anyways, it's a great language and my personal favorite. But do
understand that as a newbie, it's probably going to take you at least
several painful years before you get up to speed.
Mark F. Haigh
mf*****@sbcglobal.net

Nov 14 '05 #18

P: n/a
Mark F. Haigh wrote:
Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

<snip>
Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(Linux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.

[OT]

If you were a CS student, I'd say learn Python. But since you want to
be a Unix sysadmin, learn Perl. Perl's syntax and heritage is very
Unixy, very loose, integrates well with the most popular web server on
Earth, and directly inherits from C, sh, and awk. Python is stricter,
more of an OOP breed, and more isolated, linguistically speaking.

Back on topic: it doesn't matter. Pick Perl or Python. C is probably
not what you want. Again, feel free to ignore my advice and learn C
anyways, it's a great language and my personal favorite. But do
understand that as a newbie, it's probably going to take you at least
several painful years before you get up to speed.


Good analysis, even though I am biased much more towards C as a first
language -- but I guess that is no crime around here... :-)

Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.
Nov 14 '05 #19

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Michael Mair wrote:

<large snip>
Good analysis, even though I am biased much more towards C as a first
language -- but I guess that is no crime around here... :-)


I'd be willing to bet that most people claiming C was their first
language were programming *something* (A BASIC variant, batch files, TI
calculators, shell scripts, spreadsheets, whatever) beforehand. To
people like that, those "don't count". On the contrary, I maintain
that they do count. Heavily.

If a person can be dissuaded from learning C, the person probably
shouldn't be learning it anyways. On the other hand, if a person has a
burning need to learn C and it's their first language, then I certainly
sympathize and try to help when I can.
Mark F. Haigh
mf*****@sbcglobal.net

Nov 14 '05 #20

P: n/a
Hi All,

Thank You all for your suggestions. I am sorry to say that this post
has became a debate rather than helping me out to make decision.

As a systems administrator I am aiming to learn programming which would
help to write programs or scripts to make my work simpler, rather than
becoming a C programmer or Perl programmer i want to learn programming
so that i should be able to make switch to new programming language
fast or with not much struggle.

Look i am looking to learn good programming rather than any specific
programming language, as said earlier in this post it would be better
to start of with some thing i will use in daily life, in this case
what would be best Language for Systems Administrator( irrespective of
OS).

Thank you once again.

Kanthi

Nov 14 '05 #21

P: n/a

"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gmail.com> wrote
Thank You all for your suggestions. I am sorry to say that this post
has became a debate rather than helping me out to make decision.

The problem is, there is no consensus.

I learnt BASIC at school in the 8-bit microcomputer days. Computing was a
craze and pretty soon many of us were doing things way beyond what was
considered within a schoolchild's abilities.
I got a ZX81, a copy of Toni Baker's "Machine Code on your ZX81" and never
looked back.

However other people who are perfectly good maybe even better programmers
than me learnt in totally different ways, for instance by learning formal
methods, or through scripting languages.

The other factor is psychological. In the 1980s, a schoolchild could write a
game on a microcomputer that bore comparison with commercial products. Now
it is no longer possible to knock up the next rival to Doom in your spare
time. So the motivation to mess about is less. However a schoolchild can
maybe design a perfectly competent website with javascript and stuff.
Nov 14 '05 #22

P: n/a

Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:
Hi All,

Thank You all for your suggestions. I am sorry to say that this post
has became a debate rather than helping me out to make decision.

As a systems administrator I am aiming to learn programming which would help to write programs or scripts to make my work simpler, rather than becoming a C programmer or Perl programmer i want to learn programming so that i should be able to make switch to new programming language
fast or with not much struggle.

Look i am looking to learn good programming rather than any specific
programming language, as said earlier in this post it would be better
to start of with some thing i will use in daily life, in this case
what would be best Language for Systems Administrator( irrespective of OS).

Thank you once again.

Kanthi

Debates aren't necessarily bad, if you want to hear more than one side
of an issue.
"make my work simpler"

In that case, definitely whatever shell / batch / Job Control
language your system supports, first. Then it depends on what
specific administrative tasks you want to do. As well as the other
considerations we've mentioned, of course. Specifically, "scripting"
and "interpreted" tend to go well with this goal.

"learn good programming" and "be able to make switch to new
programming language" do go together, but if they coincide with
quickly or easily making your work simpler, it'll just be luck.
Particularly, "scripting" tends not to match these requirements,
because scripting tools tend to (1) be optimized for small, ad-hoc
programs vs. well-designed ones, and (2) favor making specific
administration-type tasks (sorting, report generation, I/O, OS
interface) easier at the expense of readability, generality and/or
rigor.

As a compromise, you might try to find a scripting tool like perhaps
csh, which "resembles" a full-scale language -- C, in this case.
That may ease the transition. Or it might just confuse you -- people
differ. I've been told my wife's grandmother took courses in
multiple foreign languages simultaneously -- in her 60's. I think my
brain would implode if I tried that...
One last observation: if you want to be able to learn new languages
(computer languages, I mean) quickly, it's very helpful to have been
exposed to several widely-varying architectures. I believe the
trendy word is "paradigms". In this respect, FORTRAN, ALGOL, PL/1,
BASIC, C, Pascal and others are much more alike than they are
different. But COBOL or RPG will teach you different things than
APL, or Forth, or Smalltalk, or Prolog. A memory-oriented CISC CPU
will teach you different things than a register-oriented RISC CPU. A
microcontroller vs. a mainframe, etc. If you only experience one
kind of thing, it gets "embedded" in your mind as _the_ way things
ought to be. (You can find abundant samples of that in "certain"
newsgroups <grin>. See also "holy wars".)

Good luck in whatever path you take.

Nov 14 '05 #23

P: n/a
"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gmail.com> writes:
Thank You all for your suggestions. I am sorry to say that this post
has became a debate rather than helping me out to make decision.

As a systems administrator I am aiming to learn programming which would
help to write programs or scripts to make my work simpler, rather than
becoming a C programmer or Perl programmer i want to learn programming
so that i should be able to make switch to new programming language
fast or with not much struggle.


<OT>

For Unix/Linux system administration, you definitely need to learn the
Bourne shell (and its descendents, bash and/or ksh). One thing that
will make this easier is that it's both a programming language and the
way you interact with the system. (Personally, I learned csh first,
and I still use its relative tcsh, which is ok for interactive use but
not so great for programming; if I were starting over, I might do
things differently.)

You also need to understand "make", used for building software.

I find Perl to be a good tool for Unix administrative work; Python is
probably cleaner and similarly powerful, but you'll almost certainly
have to deal with other people's Perl code anyway so you should learn
the language. The book "Learning Perl" is a good tutorial; there's
also a book called "Perl for System Administration". (O'Reilly
publishes a lot of excellent books and surprisingly few mediocre
ones.)

</OT>

You should definitely learn C eventually (after all, that's what the
OS and most software that runs under it are written in). Be sure to
keep in mind the difference between what's defined by the language
standard itself and what's defined by extensions such as POSIX.

Most of these things work under Windows as well, but Windows system
administration will require a different set of skills in some areas; I
can't help with the details.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Nov 14 '05 #24

P: n/a
Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

Hi Erik & Malcom,

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(Linux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python .


Since you are targeting Linux and windows, I would say Perl and Python
over C for the following reasons:

- GUIs in Perl and Python are far easier than GUIs in C.
- Its far easier to write cross platform code in Perl and
Python than C.

I don't want to start yet another Perl V Python flameware, but I would
also suggest Python over Perl because Python is far more readable
than Perl and far better for beginning programmers.

There is also a very beginner friendly Python newsgroup while the Perl
group is far less forgiving of beginner questions.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo no****@mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the
occasional division by zero.
Nov 14 '05 #25

P: n/a
Kanthi

There's no straight answer, because everyone has their own opinion.
Personally, I say you should learn C, because once you learn C, you can
pick up other languages in no time, whereas I can't say the same the
other way around. Scripting languages in general are bad for learning
good programming.

While Perl is pretty handy for sys admin, there's really no reason you
can't use C to do the same job, so actually you can in fact use it a
lot in your daily life. A lot of times I use a combination of C, shell
scripts, and (not so much) Perl together to accomplish a task,
whichever makes things easier.

Nov 14 '05 #26

P: n/a
In article <11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups .com>,
pepsikolanut <pe**********@gmail.com> wrote:
:While Perl is pretty handy for sys admin, there's really no reason you
:can't use C to do the same job, so actually you can in fact use it a
:lot in your daily life.

In practice, you have to be experienced with C in order to use non-trivial
perl CPAN (pre-written easily-downloadable library) modules. A number of
CPAN modules use C underpinings for speed reasons, or to do things that
perl cannot do itself. That C code isn't always particularily portable. :(

Also, when you install perl, it grots through your system include files
to turn some of them into [useful] perl include files, such as is done
local system definitions of permission bits and what-not.
Unfortunately, those transformation routines are not entirely adept at
working with conditional compilation, such as for headers that might be
included by both C and C++ routines, or headers that might make use of
pragmas, or headers that test which standards one has available (which
C, which POSIX 1003.1 edition, which XPG4, etc.) The result can be that
even what would seem to be simple matters such as extracting the exit
status of a process (i.e., <wait.h>) can blow up in perl :(
[Historically it has not been unusual for Unix systems to define
the wait() result in terms of a union of an integer type and a
structure of bitfields; perl doesn't always pick up on that...]
--
Studies show that the average reader ignores 106% of all statistics
they see in .signatures.
Nov 14 '05 #27

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