Special ascii values

[_libra_]

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

Thanks.

[Thomas Matthews]

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

Thanks.

By definition, the ASCII character set has only 128 characters
defined, 0x00 to 0x7F (NUL to DEL).

Left arrow keys, start keys, alternate, control and shift do
not have ASCII codes. These codes for these keys are platform
specific. Your best direction is to consult a newsgroup about
your platform. See the FAQs and welcome.txt below.

--
Thomas Matthews

C++ newsgroup welcome message:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
http://www.raos.demon.uk/acllc-c++/faq.html
Other sites:
http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book

[Joona I Palaste]

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Show me a good mouser and I'll show you a cat with bad breath."
- Garfield

[Severian]

On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
users call them "Start" keys.

--
Sev

[_libra_]

Severian wrote:

On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
users call them "Start" keys.

sorry, im not english so i suposed it was the correct translation, but i
think it is called the HOME key.

[Kenneth Brody]

_libra_ wrote:
[...]

sorry, im not english so i suposed it was the correct translation, but i
think it is called the HOME key.

The point they are trying to make is that there is no such thing as
"ASCII values" for keys that are not defined my the ASCII table.

For example, on one type of terminal I've used, the up-arrow will
send a control-K (0x0b), and on another it will send a sequence
of three characters (0x1b, '[', 'A'). According to my termcap
files, there are terminals that send control-Z (0x1a) and others
that send the two-character sequence 0x1b, '\' or 0x1b, 'A' or
even the sequence 0x1b, 'R', 'I'.

Now, since you appear to be asking about the Windows platform, you
can ask one of the Windows-specific newsgroups for how to do this
in a Windows-specific way, and they may be able to help there.

--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | |
| kenbrody at spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | #include <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+

[Dan Pop]

In <el******************@news.ono.com> _libra_ <_l**************@mixmail.com> writes:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

These are special keys, but they don't generate special characters.
They typically generate sequences of characters, starting with ASCII ESC.

The Delete key may be a special case and generate the 0x7f (127) character
code (ASCII DEL).

As these things are very platform specific, if you can't find anything
helpful in your documentation, try posting to a newsgroup dedicated to
your platform.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

[Dan Pop]

In <c5**********@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi> writes:

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Most likely, yours, if you're using a reasonably recent PC. It's the
key with the Windows logo, that pops up the "Start" menu when pressed and
released alone in Windows ;-)

The OP might have meant the "Home" key, however (it has different names on
certain keyboard layouts, like "Inicio" on Spanish and Southern American
keyboards).

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

[_libra_]

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

Thanks.

ok, thank you-

[Mac]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:

On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:

_libra_ wrote:
Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows

^^^
Is this a typo?

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

--Mac

[Richard Heathfield]

Joona I Palaste wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled
the following:

_libra_ wrote:

Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

See parallel replies. (The keyboard I am using right now has a Home key, but
no Windows keys of any kind.)

BTW the Atari ST has "Help" and "Undo" keys, both of which are sorely
lacking on a typical PC keyboard.

IIRC the DT22 and the Trend both had overscore keys, as opposed to
underscore. But that might just be nostalgic dementia setting in.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

[Severian]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:44:10 +0000 (UTC), Richard Heathfield
<do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

Joona I Palaste wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled
the following:

_libra_ wrote:
Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

See parallel replies. (The keyboard I am using right now has a Home key, but
no Windows keys of any kind.)

BTW the Atari ST has "Help" and "Undo" keys, both of which are sorely
lacking on a typical PC keyboard.

IIRC the DT22 and the Trend both had overscore keys, as opposed to
underscore. But that might just be nostalgic dementia setting in.

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys. Memories, memories of
110 baud and ALL CAPS...

At least I'm too young to have used Baudot.

--
Sev

[CBFalconer]

Mac wrote:

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored
flag that symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the
Windows flag doesn't resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

This pushes one of my many annoyances. In my life I have seen the
perfectly good word "gay", meaning carefree and happy,
misappropriated to mean homosexual, and the word "Christian",
meaning someone in the broad family of believers in Christ,
misappropriated to mean a member of the radical and evangelical
religious right.

Meanwhile a collection of perfectly usable four letter profanities
have become commonplace, and are routinely emitted with impunity
by those innocent young things.

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[CBFalconer]

Richard Heathfield wrote:

.... snip ...
See parallel replies. (The keyboard I am using right now has a
Home key, but no Windows keys of any kind.)

BTW the Atari ST has "Help" and "Undo" keys, both of which are
sorely lacking on a typical PC keyboard.

Furrfu. I go out of my way to find old keyboards without any of
those so-called windows keys, and a full width space bar that I
can pound from anywhere.

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Richard Bos]

Richard Heathfield <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

Joona I Palaste wrote:

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

See parallel replies. (The keyboard I am using right now has a Home key, but
no Windows keys of any kind.)

Off-topically, where did you find a useful thing like that? KNode is not
available for the Mac, is it? Last time I saw a keyboard without those
irritating get-in-the-way keys, it was a pull-out designed to be screwed
into a server cabinet, not very useful for a desktop computer :-(

Richard

[Martin Dickopp]

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> writes:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 05:44:10 +0000 (UTC), Richard Heathfield
<do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

BTW the Atari ST has "Help" and "Undo" keys, both of which are sorely
lacking on a typical PC keyboard.

IIRC the DT22 and the Trend both had overscore keys, as opposed to
underscore. But that might just be nostalgic dementia setting in.

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys. Memories, memories of
110 baud and ALL CAPS...

As a child, I used a keybord which had "Hop", "Rubout", and "Rubin"
keys. "Hop" was a prefix key which made the next key stronger,
e.g. while "Rubout" deleted a character, "Hop" followed by "Rubout"
was used to delete a line. "Rubin" was the equivalent of the modern
"Insert" key.

Martin
--
,--. Martin Dickopp, Dresden, Germany ,= ,-_-. =.
/ ,- ) http://www.zero-based.org/ ((_/)o o(\_))
\ `-' `-'(. .)`-'
`-. Debian, a variant of the GNU operating system. \_/

[pete]

Richard Heathfield wrote:

See parallel replies.
(The keyboard I am using right now has a Home key, but
no Windows keys of any kind.)

BTW the Atari ST has "Help" and "Undo" keys, both of which are sorely
lacking on a typical PC keyboard.

IIRC the DT22 and the Trend both had overscore keys, as opposed to
underscore. But that might just be nostalgic dementia setting in.

I use a 1993 Lexmark Model M.

--
pete

[Kenneth Brody]

Severian wrote:
[...]

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys.
I forget what the "here is" key sent, but the "rubout" sent 0x7f, which
was used to "rub out" a character from the punch tape by punching all
of the holes.
Memories, memories of 110 baud and ALL CAPS...
.... and friends who could whistle into the accoustic coupler and make
the teletype react. (No, he couldn't get anything but random characters
to print.)

Is it a bad sign that I can still read paper tape from [AK]SR33s? (Though
nowhere near as fast as I once did.)
At least I'm too young to have used Baudot.

Ditto.

--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | |
| kenbrody at spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | #include <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+

[Kenneth Brody]

CBFalconer wrote:
[...]

Furrfu. I go out of my way to find old keyboards without any of
those so-called windows keys, and a full width space bar that I
can pound from anywhere.

And weigh more than the cardboard box they come in.

We picked up several old keyboards at a local "flea market" type
show for about a dollar a piece. They're also great for the kids'
computers, since they can't accidentally push the Windows key and
have the game stop/crash.

--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | |
| kenbrody at spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | #include <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+

[Severian]

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:19:30 -0400, Kenneth Brody
<ke******@spamcop.net> wrote:

Severian wrote:
[...]

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys.
I forget what the "here is" key sent, but the "rubout" sent 0x7f, which
was used to "rub out" a character from the punch tape by punching all
of the holes.

IIRC, Here Is was hardware-programmable; I think by default it sent 20
null characters, advancing the punch a bit if engaged.

Memories, memories of 110 baud and ALL CAPS...

... and friends who could whistle into the accoustic coupler and make
the teletype react. (No, he couldn't get anything but random characters
to print.)

I tried a few times, but I don't think I ever got more than a
character or two.
Is it a bad sign that I can still read paper tape from [AK]SR33s? (Though
nowhere near as fast as I once did.)

At least I'm too young to have used Baudot.

Ditto.

--
Sev

[Alan Balmer]

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:19:30 -0400, Kenneth Brody
<ke******@spamcop.net> wrote:

Severian wrote:
[...]

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys.
I forget what the "here is" key sent, but the "rubout" sent 0x7f, which
was used to "rub out" a character from the punch tape by punching all
of the holes.

Memories, memories of 110 baud and ALL CAPS...

... and friends who could whistle into the accoustic coupler and make
the teletype react. (No, he couldn't get anything but random characters
to print.)

I used to be able to "whistle up a modem." That was before the fancy
negotiation they insist on now.
Is it a bad sign that I can still read paper tape from [AK]SR33s? (Though
nowhere near as fast as I once did.)

At least I'm too young to have used Baudot.

Ditto.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************************@att.net

[Lew Pitcher]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Severian wrote:
| On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:19:30 -0400, Kenneth Brody
| <ke******@spamcop.net> wrote:
|
|
|>Severian wrote:
|>[...]
|>
|>>ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys.
|>
|>I forget what the "here is" key sent, but the "rubout" sent 0x7f, which
|>was used to "rub out" a character from the punch tape by punching all
|>of the holes.
|
|
| IIRC, Here Is was hardware-programmable; I think by default it sent 20
| null characters, advancing the punch a bit if engaged.

IIRC, on my old ASR33, it engaged a drum that had 'hardcoded' values on it (pins
& holes). The key caused the drum to rotate once, and the drum reader 'read' 20
or so characters from the patterns on the drum. The drum also engaged when the
TTY received a WRU ("Who aRe yoU" aka 'ENQ') character from the serial interface.

[snip]

- --
Lew Pitcher

Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | GPG public key available on request
Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFAd3xgagVFX4UWr64RAuWgAJ4vBRYJg1bkStdO3mPKeG 4bCjhojACg8/QC
5Wi2Jh/S6mt7bi/eMwayCXM=
=9Ki9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Mac]

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:32:47 +0000, CBFalconer wrote:

Mac wrote:

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored
flag that symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the
Windows flag doesn't resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

This pushes one of my many annoyances. In my life I have seen the
perfectly good word "gay", meaning carefree and happy,
misappropriated to mean homosexual, and the word "Christian",
meaning someone in the broad family of believers in Christ,
misappropriated to mean a member of the radical and evangelical
religious right.

[snip]

Heh. I must be a lot younger than you. I don't remember a time when the
word "gay" didn't mean homosexual, although I have always been aware of
its older meaning, too.

Above, in the text you quoted, I said "gay" because as far as I know, the
flag is called the "Gay Freedom Flag." And I added "homosexual," for
clarification because we have many non-native English readers here, and if
they learned English in a formal school environment, and haven't watched a
lot of American television or movies, they might not be sure which meaning
was intended.

--Mac

[Severian]

gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:

On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:
_libra_ wrote:
> Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
> characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows

^^^
Is this a typo?

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

--
Sev

[Michael Wojcik]

In article <40***************@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> writes:

This pushes one of my many annoyances. In my life I have seen the
perfectly good word "gay", meaning carefree and happy,
misappropriated to mean homosexual,

You're older than I thought, since this usage dates back to at least
1925. (The OED gives 1935's "gaycat" as its earliest reference, but
older ones are well-documented; see alt-usage-english.org.) And the
various sexual denotations and connotations of "gay" have been its
most common use throughout its history.

I'm not sure how a word can be "misappropriated" in English, since
there is no English standard to determine how a word may be correctly
appropriated. Usage changes. Those changes may at times be annoying,
but I don't see any rational grounds for calling them incorrect.
Language is as it is used.

--
Michael Wojcik mi************@microfocus.com

Pocket #9: A complete "artificial glen" with rocks, and artificial moon,
and forester's station. Excellent for achieving the effect of the
sublime without going out-of-doors. -- Joe Green

[CBFalconer]

Michael Wojcik wrote:

CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> writes:

This pushes one of my many annoyances. In my life I have seen the
perfectly good word "gay", meaning carefree and happy,
misappropriated to mean homosexual,

You're older than I thought, since this usage dates back to at least
1925. (The OED gives 1935's "gaycat" as its earliest reference, but
older ones are well-documented; see alt-usage-english.org.) And the
various sexual denotations and connotations of "gay" have been its
most common use throughout its history.

Maybe not. I would say the reassignment of gay took place
somewhere between 1950 and 1970, at least in my experience. That
is not to say the usage didn't exist before then. But us
straights used to have a gay old time at the party, flirting with
all those gay young things.

--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2.
to work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences
that are worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME
fixes many of the shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". - Hutchison

[Joona I Palaste]

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:

gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:

On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:
Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:
> _libra_ wrote:
>> Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
>> characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?

What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows ^^^
Is this a typo?

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Stronger, no. More seductive, cunning, crunchier the Dark Side is."
- Mika P. Nieminen

[Dan Pop]

In <40***************@spamcop.net> Kenneth Brody <ke******@spamcop.net> writes:

Severian wrote:
[...]

ASR33 and KSR33 had "Here is" and "Rubout" keys.

I forget what the "here is" key sent, but the "rubout" sent 0x7f, which
was used to "rub out" a character from the punch tape by punching all
of the holes.

That's why ASCII DEL is the only control character with an oddball value.

Memories, memories of 110 baud and ALL CAPS...

... and friends who could whistle into the accoustic coupler and make
the teletype react. (No, he couldn't get anything but random characters
to print.)

Is it a bad sign that I can still read paper tape from [AK]SR33s? (Though
nowhere near as fast as I once did.)

Could you also "patch" it by punching extra holes with a hand tool?

Our card readers worked by reflection on the back of the cards (and dirty
cards were lots of fun for the unsuspecting users). When I needed
an extra hole, I could draw it with a pencil on the back of the card.
I've never been desperate enough to "punch" a whole card this way ;-)

At least I'm too young to have used Baudot.

Ditto.

It's more of an occupational issue. Telex operators may be still using it
today, for all I know...

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

[Severian]

On 13 Apr 2004 17:57:42 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:

gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:
On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:
>Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:
>> _libra_ wrote:
>>> Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
>>> characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?
>
>What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?

Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
^^^
Is this a typo?

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

I apologize. I was being silly, and did not intend to offend anyone.

--
Sev

[CBFalconer]

Dan Pop wrote:

Kenneth Brody <ke******@spamcop.net> writes:

.... snip ...

Is it a bad sign that I can still read paper tape from
[AK]SR33s? (Though nowhere near as fast as I once did.)

Could you also "patch" it by punching extra holes with a hand
tool?

Our card readers worked by reflection on the back of the cards
(and dirty cards were lots of fun for the unsuspecting users).
When I needed an extra hole, I could draw it with a pencil on
the back of the card. I've never been desperate enough to
"punch" a whole card this way ;-)

I have been known to patch a mylar 'paper' tape with an Xacto
knife :-)

--
Chuck F (cb********@yahoo.com) (cb********@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!

[Nick Keighley]

Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message news:<c5**********@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>...

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:

gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:
<snip>
Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
^^^
Is this a typo?

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

can't say I blame you, but if usage determines the language then we may
have to live with it. I've heard a 10 yr old use it that sense and
I don't think he realised the sexual orientation meaning. No I don't use
it in that fashion (and don't intend to in the future).
--
Nick Keighley

[Default User]

Nick Keighley wrote:

can't say I blame you, but if usage determines the language then we may
have to live with it. I've heard a 10 yr old use it that sense and
I don't think he realised the sexual orientation meaning. No I don't use
it in that fashion (and don't intend to in the future).

I think you're wrong. They know perfectly well that gay also means
homosexual, how could they not? It's constantly in the media.

If the pejorative version of wasn't connected with the other one, then
why such phrases as, "gay as a unitard"?

Brian Rodenborn

[Alan Balmer]

On 14 Apr 2004 07:56:41 -0700, ni***********@marconi.com (Nick
Keighley) wrote:

Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message news:<c5**********@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>...

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:

> gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:
>>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:
<snip>
>>> Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
>> ^^^
>> Is this a typo?
>>
>>If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
>>symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
>>resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

> I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
> movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

can't say I blame you, but if usage determines the language then we may
have to live with it.

Not yet. The usage is still slang, and not very widespread slang at
that. There's a lot of slang usage that never has a long-lasting
effect on the language.
I've heard a 10 yr old use it that sense and
I don't think he realised the sexual orientation meaning. No I don't use
it in that fashion (and don't intend to in the future).

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************************@att.net

[Mac]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:55:31 +0000, Severian wrote:

On 13 Apr 2004 17:57:42 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:

gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:
> On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
> wrote:
>>Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:
>>> _libra_ wrote:
>>>> Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
>>>> characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?
>>
>>What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?
>
> Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
^^^
Is this a typo?

[snip]

If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

I apologize. I was being silly, and did not intend to offend anyone.

I used to talk like that, too. But after a few hints from various people
important to me, I grew out of it.

I don't think it's new or hip, by the way. ;-)

--Mac

[Severian]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:13:21 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:55:31 +0000, Severian wrote:

On 13 Apr 2004 17:57:42 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

Severian <se******@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> scribbled the following:
gOn Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:38:15 -0700, "Mac" <fo*@bar.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:07:33 +0000, Severian wrote:
>> On 8 Apr 2004 14:57:49 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi>
>> wrote:
>>>Thomas Matthews <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> scribbled the following:
>>>> _libra_ wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Can someone tell me how to obtein the values of certain especial
>>>>> characteres like the left arrow or the Start or del key?
>>>
>>>What kind of keyboard *has* a "Start" key?
>>
>> Well, a lot of keyboards have a gay "flag" key or two. I think Windows
> ^^^
> Is this a typo?
>
>[snip]
>
>If it's not a typo, what do you mean? There is a rainbow colored flag that
>symbolizes gay (as in homosexual) freedom, but the Windows flag doesn't
>resemble that flag as far as I can tell.

I was using "gay" in its newer, hipper pejorative sense; i.e., "That
movie was gay."

AFAIK this "hipper pejorative sense" comes from the meaning
"homosexual" via a simple association: Homosexual => bad, gay =>
homosexual, therefore (via transitivity) gay => bad. The "homosexual"
part isn't so obviously expressed in the context of things that don't
have the concept of sexuality. If this is indeed the correct
association then I take offense at this "hipper pejorative sense".

I apologize. I was being silly, and did not intend to offend anyone.

I used to talk like that, too. But after a few hints from various people
important to me, I grew out of it.

I don't think it's new or hip, by the way. ;-)

Do I need to add a gay smily when I'm being sarcastic?

--
Sev