By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
425,929 Members | 634 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 425,929 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

Asking if elements in struct arre zero

P: n/a
If I have:

struct one_{
unsigned int one_1;
unsigned short one_2;
unsigned short one_3;
};

struct two_{
unsigned int two_1;
unsigned short two_2;
unsigned char two_3;
};

struct mystruct{
struct one_ one;
struct two_ two;
}mystruct1;

Then could I by any change ask on the value of the whole struct mystruct1,
that is all the elements in the struct in one call? I want to do something
like (in pseudo like language):

if(mystruct1 == 0) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero");}
Best Regards
Terry
Nov 13 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
258 Replies


P: n/a
Terry Andersen wrote:
If I have:

struct one_{
unsigned int one_1;
unsigned short one_2;
unsigned short one_3;
};

struct two_{
unsigned int two_1;
unsigned short two_2;
unsigned char two_3;
};

struct mystruct{
struct one_ one;
struct two_ two;
}mystruct1;

Then could I by any change ask on the value of the whole struct mystruct1,
that is all the elements in the struct in one call? I want to do something
like (in pseudo like language):

if(mystruct1 == 0) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero");}


No.

You could, however, do this:

int CompareMyStructsForEquality(const struct mystruct *ms1,
const struct mystruct *ms2)
{
int same = 0;
if(ms1->one.one_1 == ms2->one.one_1 &&
ms1->one.one_2 == ms2->one.one_2 &&
ms1->one.one_3 == ms2->one.one_3 &&
ms1->two.one_1 == ms2->two.one_1 &&
ms1->two.one_2 == ms2->two.one_2 &&
ms1->two.one_3 == ms2->two.one_3)
{
same = 1;
}
return same;
}

You can then do:

struct mystruct z = {0};
if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &mystruct1) == 1)
{
puts("mystruct1 is zeroed.");
}

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #2

P: n/a
On 2003-10-25, Richard Heathfield <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
Terry Andersen wrote:
struct one_{unsigned int one_1;unsigned short one_2;unsigned short one_3;};
struct two_{unsigned int two_1;unsigned short two_2;unsigned char two_3;};
struct mystruct{struct one_ one;struct two_ two;}mystruct1;

Then could I by any change ask on the value of the whole struct mystruct1,
that is all the elements in the struct in one call? I want to do something
like (in pseudo like language):

if(mystruct1 == 0) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero");}


No.


[good stuff snipped]

If you knew for sure that struct mystruct did not have any padding bits
(and you can not portably determine this), or if you knew that struct
mystruct is always initialized in a way such that all its padding bits
are zero (such as allocated by calloc(), or was initialized by a call to
memset(p, '\0', sz)), you could have used the function memcmp().

{
static const struct mystruct z;
if(memcmp(&mystruct1, &z)) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero"); }
}

But, Richard's suggestion is the most straight forward and less
error prone.

-- James
Nov 13 '05 #3

P: n/a
James Hu wrote:

<snip>
If you knew for sure that struct mystruct did not have any padding bits
(and you can not portably determine this), or if you knew that struct
mystruct is always initialized in a way such that all its padding bits
are zero (such as allocated by calloc(), or was initialized by a call to
memset(p, '\0', sz)), you could have used the function memcmp().

{
static const struct mystruct z;
if(memcmp(&mystruct1, &z)) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero");


I think you'll need sizeof z as a third argument. :-)

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@hercules.btinternet.com...
You can then do:

struct mystruct z = {0};
if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &mystruct1) == 1)
{
puts("mystruct1 is zeroed.");
}


Aha, I've found a good use for immediate structs.

if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &(struct mystruct){0}) == 1)
.....
Nov 13 '05 #5

P: n/a
James Hu wrote:
Terry Andersen wrote:
struct one_{unsigned int one_1;unsigned short one_2;unsigned short one_3;};
struct two_{unsigned int two_1;unsigned short two_2;unsigned char two_3;};
struct mystruct{struct one_ one;struct two_ two;}mystruct1;


If you knew for sure that struct mystruct did not have any padding bits
(and you can not portably determine this)


Why can't you portably determine this? In particular, what's to stop
you from calculating the number of bits in each integer type (using
sizeof and CHAR_BIT) and then comparing the maximum value that can be
represented with that numbers of bits to the actual maximum value for
the type?

Padding /bytes/ in the structure can be detected by comparing the size
of the structure with the sum of the sizes of its members, of course.

Jeremy.
Nov 13 '05 #6

P: n/a
I'm not familiar with this {0} syntax. This creates a struct of the correct
type where all the members have value 0? Is this C99 or something?
"Serve Lau" <i@bleat.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bn**********@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@hercules.btinternet.com...
You can then do:

struct mystruct z = {0};
if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &mystruct1) == 1)
{
puts("mystruct1 is zeroed.");
}


Aha, I've found a good use for immediate structs.

if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &(struct mystruct){0}) == 1)
....

Nov 13 '05 #7

P: n/a
[Please don't top-post. It's very irritating. Fixed.]

Roose wrote:
"Serve Lau" <i@bleat.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bn**********@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@hercules.btinternet.com...
> You can then do:
>
> struct mystruct z = {0};
> if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &mystruct1) == 1)
> {
> puts("mystruct1 is zeroed.");
> }


Aha, I've found a good use for immediate structs.

if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &(struct mystruct){0}) == 1)
....

I'm not familiar with this {0} syntax. This creates a struct of
the correct type where all the members have value 0? Is this
C99 or something?


The syntax struct mystruct z = {0}; is straight C90 - you can use it now,
today. When you partially initialise an aggregate (such as an array or
struct) with *at least* one element, it is the compiler's job to initialise
everything else to static defaults, which are basically 0, 0.0 and NULL.

The construct &(struct mystruct){0}, which uses a "compound literal", is
C99-only.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #8

P: n/a
"Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:HA*****************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.co m...
I'm not familiar with this {0} syntax. This creates a struct of the correct type where all the members have value 0? Is this C99 or something?


yes, although named struct also worked in C89

struct mystruct x = {0};

x gets initialized according to the initializer list. If x has more members
than there are items in the initializer list they will be filled with 0. So
x = {0} effectively fills the struct with 0 and my code example does it with
a nameless struct.
compared to memset(&x, 0 sizeof x); this is the most portable construct,
least to type and a compiler can optimize the most out of it. So why not use
it? :)
Nov 13 '05 #9

P: n/a
Thank you for your answer, that cleared it up nicely.

Please don't bottom-post, I find it irritating since when reading a thread,
I basically scroll through/read O(n^2) posts rather than O(n). I find it
_extremely_ irritating when people complain about top-posting, as if they
were the President of UseNet. Even after a decade or more reading it.

"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@titan.btinternet.com...
[Please don't top-post. It's very irritating. Fixed.]
The syntax struct mystruct z = {0}; is straight C90 - you can use it now,
today. When you partially initialise an aggregate (such as an array or
struct) with *at least* one element, it is the compiler's job to initialise everything else to static defaults, which are basically 0, 0.0 and NULL.

The construct &(struct mystruct){0}, which uses a "compound literal", is
C99-only.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Nov 13 '05 #10

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
Thank you for your answer, that cleared it up nicely.
No problem.
Please don't bottom-post, I find it irritating since when reading a
thread,
You like reading upside-down?
I basically scroll through/read O(n^2) posts rather than O(n).


Then encourage people to snip properly, and snip properly yourself to set an
example.

FCOL.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #11

P: n/a
On 2003-10-26, Jeremy Yallop <je****@jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
James Hu wrote:
Terry Andersen wrote:
struct one_{unsigned int one_1;unsigned short one_2;unsigned short one_3;};
struct two_{unsigned int two_1;unsigned short two_2;unsigned char two_3;};
struct mystruct{struct one_ one;struct two_ two;}mystruct1;


If you knew for sure that struct mystruct did not have any padding bits
(and you can not portably determine this)


Why can't you portably determine this? In particular, what's to stop
you from calculating the number of bits in each integer type (using
sizeof and CHAR_BIT) and then comparing the maximum value that can be
represented with that numbers of bits to the actual maximum value for
the type?


I had a misthought. Yes, you can portably determine this, but it would
not be a strictly conforming program.

Thanks,

-- James
Nov 13 '05 #12

P: n/a
On 2003-10-25, Richard Heathfield <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
James Hu wrote:
{
static const struct mystruct z;
if(memcmp(&mystruct1, &z)) { print("All elements of mystruct1 is zero");


I think you'll need sizeof z as a third argument. :-)


Yep!

Thanks,

-- James
Nov 13 '05 #13

P: n/a
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:35:18 GMT
"Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
Thank you for your answer, that cleared it up nicely.

Please don't bottom-post, I find it irritating since when reading a
thread, I basically scroll through/read O(n^2) posts rather than O(n).
I find it
_extremely_ irritating when people complain about top-posting, as if
they were the President of UseNet. Even after a decade or more
reading it.


<snip>

Bottom posting is the long established convention on Usenet, although on
*some* non-technical groups top posting is permitted. It is also
enshrined, together with snipping, in one of the RFCs.

You are also likely to quickly find yourself ignored by a number of the
more knowledgeable posters here if you persist in top posting.
--
Mark Gordon
Paid to be a Geek & a Senior Software Developer
Although my email address says spamtrap, it is real and I read it.
Nov 13 '05 #14

P: n/a
Roose wrote:

[8<]
Please don't bottom-post, I find it irritating since when
reading a thread, I basically scroll through/read O(n^2) posts
rather than O(n). I find it _extremely_ irritating when
people complain about top-posting

[>8]

Bottom-posting is the established norm in this forum. Proposals
to change that norm have been made from time to time; but there
has been little interest in adopting such proposals.

You can, of course, choose not to read bottom-posted articles;
just as you can choose to top-post your replies. I suspect that
such deviant behavior might not be well-regarded - and that you
might well find yourself standing all alone in the crowd.

--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
C links at http://www.iedu.com/c
Read my lips: The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.

Nov 13 '05 #15

P: n/a
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:35:18 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
Thank you for your answer, that cleared it up nicely.

Please don't bottom-post, I find it irritating since when reading a thread,
I basically scroll through/read O(n^2) posts rather than O(n).
only if idiots don't Snip the irrelevant material .Sheesh, what is it
with some people? Too lazy to snip?
I find it
_extremely_ irritating when people complain about top-posting,
Yeah? Well round here, top posting is frowned on, so stop it.
as if they
were the President of UseNet. Even after a decade or more reading it.


you should know better.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #16

P: n/a
OK, feel free to ignore my posts. Like I said, after a decade of posting in
UseNet, I have never had a problem getting any answer to any question, with
top-posting preferred. I do bottom-post when there are multiple points to
address, but in general I find it to read when people top-post (and snip).
If you have a newsreader made after 1991, it is no problem to track the
thread backward.

Why can't we all be grown-ups and accept that there are things in this big
world that we can't control. I prefer top-posting, but I have never
complained about anyone bottom-posting, and certainly would never go to
absurd lengths like actually rearranging the posts.

I also find the all the sigs with the stupid quotes and URLs rather
annoying, but I've never complained about it.

Nov 13 '05 #17

P: n/a
[regarding]
if(CompareMyStructsForEquality(&z, &(struct mystruct){0}) == 1)

In article <bn**********@titan.btinternet.com>
Richard Heathfield <bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk> writes, in part:The construct &(struct mystruct){0}, which uses a "compound literal", is
C99-only.


Yes. In this particular case -- comparing, not writing on, the
structure -- you might want to use:

&(const struct mystruct){0}

i.e., add a "const" qualifier, provided the compare() function takes
const-qualified pointers. This not only makes the structure contents
read-only (at least in principle), but also informs the compiler that
it is allowed to share storage with other such "const struct mystruct"s.

In other words, barring particularly tricky optimization, the sequence:

extern void foo(const struct S *, const struct S *);

foo(&(struct S){0}, &(struct S){0});

*must* pass two *different* pointer values to function foo(), while
the call:

foo(&(const struct S){0}, &(const struct S){0});

is allowed (but not required) to pass identical pointer values to
foo(). If foo() consists of:

void foo(const struct S *a, const struct S *b) {
printf("in foo(): have %s pointers\n",
a == b ? "same" : "different");
}

then the difference is visible and you can tell whether your C99
compiler implements the "share readonly compound-literal storage"
optimization.

(Disclaimer: this is all based on a C99 draft, and this sort of
fiddly stuff about precisely when and where storage is allocated is
the kind of thing that changes from draft to draft. :-) )
--
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
Salt Lake City, UT, USA (4039.22'N, 11150.29'W) +1 801 277 2603
email: forget about it http://67.40.109.61/torek/index.html (for the moment)
Reading email is like searching for food in the garbage, thanks to spammers.
Nov 13 '05 #18

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
OK, feel free to ignore my posts.


Verywell. Top posting is increddibly irritating.

*plonk*

--
Noah Roberts
- "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

Nov 13 '05 #19

P: n/a
Roose wrote:

OK, feel free to ignore my posts.

You got it.
*plonk*


Brian Rodenborn
Nov 13 '05 #20

P: n/a
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:06:33 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
OK, feel free to ignore my posts.
done.
Like I said, after a decade of posting in
UseNet, I have never had a problem getting any answer to any question, with
top-posting preferred.
then you've not been in any technical group much I suspect.
I do bottom-post when there are multiple points to
address, but in general I find it to read when people top-post (and snip).
If you have a newsreader made after 1991, it is no problem to track the
thread backward.


pardon me, but this is bullshit. How precisely? Do you retain a
complete usenet archive on your PC?

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #21

P: n/a
I SAID ignore my posts, including that one and this one. Not "post some
off-topic waste of bandwidth".
Nov 13 '05 #22

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
I SAID ignore my posts, including that one and this one. Not "post some
off-topic waste of bandwidth".


Since you appear to want everyone to ignore your posts, why not just stop
posting altogether?

(Hint: in the absence of any context whatsoever, it is presumed that you are
addressing the entire newsgroup.)

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #23

P: n/a
No, _obviously_ I'm referring only to the people who complain about top
posting. Don't be dense. Or stop trolling.

End this by not replying to this message, and killfilling me. I, on the
other hand, won't killfile anyone because I've made it clear that I tolerate
bottom-posting, even though I prefer top-posting. Even with the stupid
quotes and URLs, I won't killfile anyone.

Roose

Since you appear to want everyone to ignore your posts, why not just stop
posting altogether?

(Hint: in the absence of any context whatsoever, it is presumed that you are addressing the entire newsgroup.)

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Nov 13 '05 #24

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
No, _obviously_ I'm referring only to the people who complain about top
posting.


Please quote sufficient context above your reply to make it clear what
you're talking about.

Thanks.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #25

P: n/a
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:32:42 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
No, _obviously_ I'm referring only to the people who complain about top
posting.
How the heck can anyone work out what on earth you#re talking about,
if you remove all context? And don't rabbit on about referring to
archived posts. You are virtually unique in having infinite diskspace
to store them all.
Don't be dense. Or stop trolling.


Pot, thy name is Kettle.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #26

P: n/a
See the other post -- just use a newsreader where you can group by thread.
All of my messages have been replies in this same thread, so it is easy to
track the conversation. I just didn't feel like replying to each
obsessive-compulsive idiot individually, but rather I dispatched them as a
group. Even web interfaces like google show who replied to who in a tree.

I find it hilarious that you live in such a regimented, literal-minded world
that you cannot tell that I meant only for top-posting dogmatists to
killfile me. You must be great to have a conversation with.

Roose

P.S. If you would have killfiled me already, then you would have never seen
that post, or this one. Just ignore this post, really.

Note that I know that the reason you can't is because you have an obsessive
need to control, as evinced by pretty much every post you have made in this
group.
Please quote sufficient context above your reply to make it clear what
you're talking about.

Thanks.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Nov 13 '05 #27

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:19:58 +0000, Roose wrote:
I find it hilarious that you live in such a regimented, literal-minded world
that you cannot tell that I meant only for top-posting dogmatists to
killfile me.


Oh, so other people are supposed to killfile you too?

*plonk*

Nov 13 '05 #28

P: n/a
Are you using a newreader made before 1991? Don't you have an option to
view messages by thread? There is a perfectly serviceable one available for
free called Outlook Express, if you use Windows.

What the hell are you talking about infinite disk space? This thread is
only 3 days old, genius. There is enough context for any of hundreds of
messages in any group I read. Even if some of them have fallen off the
bottom, they are old enough not to be relevant to what people are currently
posting.

You said you killfiled me already, why don't you go ahead and do that now.
Seriously. ANY replies to this message will be feeding the troll, according
to you, and we all know that feeding trolls is worse netiquette than
top-posting, right?

How the heck can anyone work out what on earth you#re talking about,
if you remove all context? And don't rabbit on about referring to
archived posts. You are virtually unique in having infinite diskspace
to store them all.
Don't be dense. Or stop trolling.
Pot, thy name is Kettle.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet

News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption

=---
Nov 13 '05 #29

P: n/a

[Posted and mailed]

It's fairly obvious that you can't get "Roose" to stop posting
random carp to this newsgroup just by asking. So everyone please
take a cue from Tisdale and just ignore it. After all, it's
already said that it doesn't care if nobody reads its posts,
and it hasn't posted anything on-topic, ever (according to *my*
newsreader, which can sort by author).

PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS (do as I say, not as I do :)

Thanks,
-Arthur

--Original message follows--

Message-ID: <it*****************@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.172.61.82
X-Complaints-To: ab***@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com 1067393998 ST000 64.172.61.82 (Tue,
28 Oct 2003 21:19:58 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:19:58 EST

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Roose wrote:

See the other post -- just use a newsreader where you can group by thread.
All of my messages have been replies in this same thread, so it is easy to
track the conversation. I just didn't feel like replying to each
obsessive-compulsive idiot individually, but rather I dispatched them as a
group. Even web interfaces like google show who replied to who in a tree.

I find it hilarious that you live in such a regimented, literal-minded world
that you cannot tell that I meant only for top-posting dogmatists to
killfile me. You must be great to have a conversation with.

Roose

P.S. If you would have killfiled me already, then you would have never seen
that post, or this one. Just ignore this post, really.

Note that I know that the reason you can't is because you have an obsessive
need to control, as evinced by pretty much every post you have made in this
group.

Nov 13 '05 #30

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
See the other post


Which other post? Please quote sufficient context above your reply so that
we can know what on earth you're talking about.

Thanks.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #31

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
See the other post -- just use a newsreader where you can group by thread.
All of my messages have been replies in this same thread, so it is easy to
track the conversation. I just didn't feel like replying to each
obsessive-compulsive idiot individually, but rather I dispatched them as a
group. Even web interfaces like google show who replied to who in a tree.


I don't know why my killfile didn't filter your messages, hopefully it
will now.

The problem with your theory is that this requires that I hunt down the
message that contains the text you are replying to in order for your
post to make any kind of sense. If you want your post to make sense it
should contain enough of the origional for your comment to make sense.
I am not going to back up and read the one before just because you
refuse to be courtious.

--
Noah Roberts
- "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

Nov 13 '05 #32

P: n/a
Which theory? Sort by thread. It doesn't take a genius. Even if I quote
nothing, then you just go to the previous in the thread. There is no
hunting.

The problem with your theory is that this requires that I hunt down the
message that contains the text you are replying to in order for your
post to make any kind of sense. If you want your post to make sense it
should contain enough of the origional for your comment to make sense.
I am not going to back up and read the one before just because you
refuse to be courtious.

--
Noah Roberts
- "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

Nov 13 '05 #33

P: n/a
So, have you killfiled me yet or not? Do you plan to?

This is a test.

If not, you're a blithering idiot. I have noticed that in almost thread you
post in, you whine about something being off-topic, about not being C, about
somebody's coding style, about their punctuation and grammar. If you don't
like it, just don't read it. That's exactly what I do, and I admit there is
a lot of abhorrent writing here. Don't fill the newsgroup with garbage.

Have you noticed that UseNet is public and that comp.lang.c is unmoderated?
That means that, sadly, you cannot control it, like so many things in your
life. It is an interesting exercise to consider the psychological
motivation of why you continue to try. I would urge you to consider
starting your own forum about the C language, where you have absolute
control.

Note: that last part was a TROLL, part of the test. This ends the test.

If for some "mysterious reason" your killfile does not work, then please
ignore this and try again. While you're at it, get a newsreader which lets
you sort by thread. It will relieve much of the irritation you get from
top-posting and under-quoted posts.

"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@titan.btinternet.com...
Roose wrote:
See the other post


Which other post? Please quote sufficient context above your reply so that
we can know what on earth you're talking about.

Thanks.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Nov 13 '05 #34

P: n/a
Roose wrote:
So, have you killfiled me yet or not? Do you plan to?
It's impossible to determine, from the (absence of) text above this
sentence, what it actually refers to. We told you about this, remember?

This is a test.


You failed it.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
Nov 13 '05 #35

P: n/a
No, on the other hand, this implies that:

1) you failed the test, because you saw the message and hence could not have
killfiled me. Although I do commend you for not responding directly to the
troll, it being so witheringly accurate. Bravo!!!

2) rather than obtaining a decent newsreader, you would rather harass the
group with these idiotic messages, claiming you can't make sense of
something that requires no context without lines of quoting. None of my
last few posts requires any quoting, unless you're an idiot.

I'll be happy to continue this exchange as long as you see fit, seeing that
I enjoy watching you writhe and post inane comments in order to get the last
word -- typical of those with control problems such as yourself.

However, please note that you're an utter hypocrite for complaining about
top-posting while feeding who you consider to be trolls. Which of course is
considered even worse netiquette by the Gods of UseNet. I, on the other
hand, recognize that UseNet is a public forum, so people may do as they
wish, including the feeding of trolls like yourself. I know this is bad
behavior, but it is so much fun. I think if I were a bystander it would be
pretty hilarious to see someone get their panties in a knot over
top-posting. Not much else in life for you, is there? Get some
perspective, seriously.
"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@sparta.btinternet.com...
Roose wrote:
So, have you killfiled me yet or not? Do you plan to?


It's impossible to determine, from the (absence of) text above this
sentence, what it actually refers to. We told you about this, remember?

This is a test.


You failed it.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Nov 13 '05 #36

P: n/a
On 2003-10-29, Roose <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
[ ... drivel ... ]
Get some perspective, seriously.


Your handle obviously refers to a "ruse", but I don't think that word
means what you think it means. You display about as much guile and
subtlety as a pile of horse manure. You seem to be suffering from
delusions of adequacy, the likes of which has been seen over and over
again, ad nauseum.

In case you don't get the message, allow me to explain in small
words, so you will understand, you wart-hog-faced buffoon. Observing
netiquette is how netizens show each other courtesy and respect,
obviously not high on your list or priorities, worm. Since you ridicule
polite requests to observe netiquette, then you show yourself to be a
mere snivelling whiny tyro wannabe.

Go away, pig, or shut up, you miserable vomitous mass, until you learn
how to get along and meaningfully participate in this newsgroup.

-- James
--
My apologies to William Goldman
Nov 13 '05 #37

P: n/a
One paranoid "Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
<snip>
even more offending crap not suitable for quoting.

Why don't you just killfile all other posters in this group? That'd be
much easier than to make them killfile you. Maybe it's a good idea to
even killfile yourself. Think about it.

--
Irrwahn
(ir*******@freenet.de)
Nov 13 '05 #38

P: n/a
Irrwahn Grausewitz wrote:
Maybe it's a good idea to
even killfile yourself. Think about it.

Useneticide? Is that legal?

--
Noah Roberts
- "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

Nov 13 '05 #39

P: n/a
Noah Roberts <nr******@dontemailme.com> wrote:
Irrwahn Grausewitz wrote:
Maybe it's a good idea to
even killfile yourself. Think about it.

Useneticide? Is that legal?


I'd call it Suiseneticide, but: Why not?
--
Irrwahn
(ir*******@freenet.de)
Nov 13 '05 #40

P: n/a
Will you all stop proving my point already? Are you guys 12? Can you come
up with some better insults besides stupid puns and "wart-hog-faced
buffoon"? This has gone from amusing to sad. Maybe I will stop. Just post
some more lame insults, and I'll be both bored and disgusted by your lack of
creativity, and that will end all the posts.

If anyone actually has a decent rebuttal, that relies on logical argument
rather than dogma, and who can come up with some decent insults, please feel
free.

"Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:KW****************@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com ...
No, on the other hand, this implies that:

1) you failed the test, because you saw the message and hence could not have killfiled me. Although I do commend you for not responding directly to the
troll, it being so witheringly accurate. Bravo!!!

2) rather than obtaining a decent newsreader, you would rather harass the
group with these idiotic messages, claiming you can't make sense of
something that requires no context without lines of quoting. None of my
last few posts requires any quoting, unless you're an idiot.

I'll be happy to continue this exchange as long as you see fit, seeing that I enjoy watching you writhe and post inane comments in order to get the last word -- typical of those with control problems such as yourself.

However, please note that you're an utter hypocrite for complaining about
top-posting while feeding who you consider to be trolls. Which of course is considered even worse netiquette by the Gods of UseNet. I, on the other
hand, recognize that UseNet is a public forum, so people may do as they
wish, including the feeding of trolls like yourself. I know this is bad
behavior, but it is so much fun. I think if I were a bystander it would be pretty hilarious to see someone get their panties in a knot over
top-posting. Not much else in life for you, is there? Get some
perspective, seriously.
"Richard Heathfield" <do******@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn**********@sparta.btinternet.com...
Roose wrote:
So, have you killfiled me yet or not? Do you plan to?


It's impossible to determine, from the (absence of) text above this
sentence, what it actually refers to. We told you about this, remember?

This is a test.


You failed it.

--
Richard Heathfield : bi****@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton


Nov 13 '05 #41

P: n/a
"Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:

<sigh> One more troll feeding himself.
Will you all stop proving my point already? Are you guys 12?
Yes, but in different numerical bases.

<snip>
Maybe I will stop. Just post
some more lame insults, and I'll be both bored and disgusted by your lack of
creativity, and that will end all the posts.
To good a proposal to actually become true.
If anyone actually has a decent rebuttal, that relies on logical argument
rather than dogma, and who can come up with some decent insults, please feel
free.


'Anyone' includes you, I assume. It would be far more convenient for
all if you'd just switch to insulting yourself directly without
polluting usenet with manifestations of your auto-agressive episodes.

Have an adequate day.
--
Irrwahn
(ir*******@freenet.de)
Nov 13 '05 #42

P: n/a
Irrwahn Grausewitz wrote:

"Roose" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:

<sigh> One more troll feeding himself.
Will you all stop proving my point already? Are you guys 12?


Yes, but in different numerical bases.

It would be better if everyone just ignored him. This is the sort of
troll (as opposed to Trollsdale) that is easy to deal with. A mass
plonking, no replies, his little fun messages drop into the void with
nary a ripple.

Those of us who killfiled him right away would be blissfully unaware of
his screed if others didn't reply to him.


Brian Rodenborn
Nov 13 '05 #43

P: n/a
Answer: Top Posting

Roose wrote:
Which theory? Sort by thread. It doesn't take a genius. Even if I quote
nothing, then you just go to the previous in the thread. There is no
hunting.


The problem with your theory is that this requires that I hunt down the
message that contains the text you are replying to in order for your
post to make any kind of sense. If you want your post to make sense it
should contain enough of the origional for your comment to make sense.
I am not going to back up and read the one before just because you
refuse to be courtious.

--
Noah Roberts
- "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."



Question: What is the most annoying thing in Usenet?

BTW, *PLONK* from work also.

Nov 13 '05 #44

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:07:15 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
Are you using a newreader made before 1991? Don't you have an option to
view messages by thread? There is a perfectly serviceable one available for
free called Outlook Express, if you use Windows.
1) please don't top post
2) please don't troll - Outhouse is not a perfectrly serviceable
newsreader, its a massive virus backdoor.
3) my newsreader is perfectly capable of threading, as you presumably
know since someone as supposedly usenet-guruesque as yourself can
presumably read the headers.
What the hell are you talking about infinite disk space? This thread is
only 3 days old, genius.
Do you have the slightest clue how much diskspace even the text-only
newsgroups take up per day? Not to mention the binaries. I'm not
wasting my diskspace storing that.
There is enough context for any of hundreds of messages in any group I read.
I'm happy for you .I however do not keep old messages. I've read them,
why should I keep them.
Plus there's a rule in CLC htat you retain context so that people
don't /have/ to read old messages. Either get with the plot, or get
plonked.
You said you killfiled me already,


No, I killfile you when you start telling people wrong C answers.
Right now you're just an annoying idiot.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #45

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:19:58 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
See the other post -- just use a newsreader where you can group by thread.
1) please don't top post
2) what other post? You need to include some context
3) please learn to snip - you don't seem to need RJH's message below,
so why not snip it?
I find it hilarious that you live in such a regimented, literal-minded world
that you cannot tell that I meant only for top-posting dogmatists to
killfile me.
This is a technical newsgroup. If you want to achieve something, say
it, don't rely on people reading your mind. We don't bring our crystal
balls to usenet.
You must be great to have a conversation with.


So my friends tell me.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #46

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:52:49 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
So, have you killfiled me yet or not? Do you plan to?
who are you talking to? Include some context so that your posts make
sense
This is a test.
please post tests to alt.test.
If not, you're a blithering idiot.
Did I already mention pots and kettles?
Have you noticed that UseNet is public and that comp.lang.c is unmoderated?
Yup.
That means that, sadly, you cannot control it,
Incorrect. It means its self moderating. You're observing this process
in action.
life. It is an interesting exercise to consider the psychological
motivation of why you continue to try.


Nothing psychological, its merely that some of us value standards, and
others don't give a sh*t about behaving politely.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #47

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:09:59 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
If anyone actually has a decent rebuttal, that relies on logical argument
rather than dogma,
We've done that already. But to recap:
1) context is important in technical groups. When responding to a
post, you should include enough context at the relevant point to make
your remarks meaningful. This cannot be achieved by top posting.

2) In order to retain as much sense as possible. posts in technical
groups should be considered conversations. Just as in conversations,
answers go AFTER questions, not before. This allows new joiners to a
thread to read a summary of the arguments so far, and catch up on the
thread, even with less able newsreaders.

3) top posting encourages bandwidth wastage, as there is a tendency
not to snip gratuitous or unneeded material.
and who can come up with some decent insults, please feel
free.


I have lots, but my ISP filters all outbound posts, so I can't call
you a fetid pile of stinking dingo's kidneys, or remark that you look
as though you'd been hung upside down with your head in a bucket of
rancid hyena offal for a week. :-)

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Nov 13 '05 #48

P: n/a
I agree with your points, and that is why I never complain about
bottom-posting. There are valid reasons for bottom posting, which is why I
do it sometimes, as I already said. But there are valid reasons for
top-posting as well, which I already listed. And that is why I get pissed
when people complain about ME top-posting.

The bottom line is that it is personal preference, and UseNet is public, so
I have the right to follow my preference. Just like everyone has the right
to post their f*cking stupid sigs after every goddamn message.

However, I am less pissed now than amused by the fact that I've caused a
collective apoplexy in comp.lang.c, over something as stupid as top-posting.

"Mark McIntyre" <ma**********@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:sq********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:09:59 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Roose"
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:
If anyone actually has a decent rebuttal, that relies on logical argument
rather than dogma,


We've done that already. But to recap:
1) context is important in technical groups. When responding to a
post, you should include enough context at the relevant point to make
your remarks meaningful. This cannot be achieved by top posting.

2) In order to retain as much sense as possible. posts in technical
groups should be considered conversations. Just as in conversations,
answers go AFTER questions, not before. This allows new joiners to a
thread to read a summary of the arguments so far, and catch up on the
thread, even with less able newsreaders.

3) top posting encourages bandwidth wastage, as there is a tendency
not to snip gratuitous or unneeded material.

Nov 13 '05 #49

P: n/a
> Do you have the slightest clue how much diskspace even the text-only
newsgroups take up per day? Not to mention the binaries. I'm not
wasting my diskspace storing that.
Well, I looked in my outlook folder, and it's 26 megs, for about 40
newsgroups from two news servers, including a several binary groups. That's
because it only downloads the headers at first.
don't /have/ to read old messages. Either get with the plot, or get
plonked.


THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU TO DO, IDIOT, SO FUCKING DO IT ALREADY. I
already made clear that I'm going to top-post when I feel like it. Notice
that I didn't this time, because there were multiple points to address.
Nov 13 '05 #50

258 Replies

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.