Educational Software

[Gaijinco]

Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
about programming?

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

If you're looking for a general introduction to programming, I'm
afraid you've asked your question in the wrong place(s).
comp.programming may be appropriate.

--
Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.

[Richard Bos]

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

Richard

[Jonathan Mcdougall]

Richard Bos wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

TROLL ALERT.
Jonathan

[Richard Heathfield]

Jonathan Mcdougall said:

Richard Bos wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

> In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people
> > learn about programming?
>
> Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
> reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

TROLL ALERT.

Good. If we must have trolls, I suppose they should at least keep awake.

Seriously, what makes you think Richard Bos is a troll? His advice to learn
programming using a language designed as a teaching language (such as
Pascal) is spot on. Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
aside for a minute), but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.
So does Pascal. Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
how to program.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

[mlimber]

Richard Bos wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

Richard

The book of choice for learning C++ is _Accelerated C++_ by Koenig and
Moo. See the FAQ for more suggestions:

http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lit...learn-cpp.html

Cheers! --M

[Flash Gordon]

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Jonathan Mcdougall said:

Richard Bos wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people
> learn about programming?
Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.
Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal. TROLL ALERT.

Good. If we must have trolls, I suppose they should at least keep awake.

Seriously, what makes you think Richard Bos is a troll? His advice to learn
programming using a language designed as a teaching language (such as
Pascal) is spot on.

Agreed.
Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
aside for a minute),
Actually, there have been several Pascal implementations targeting
embedded systems which I and others have used very successfully. I've
also used HP Pascal for some significant and very successful projects.

All these Pascals had extensions which we used, but then the same goes
for C. I *prefer* C, but within at least certain limitations Pascal can
and is used in the real world.
but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.
So does Pascal.
Pascal can also make sense in the real world.
Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
how to program.

This I agree with.
--
Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

[Walter Roberson]

In article <dk**********@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
Richard Heathfield <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[OT]

Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
aside for a minute),

I used to work for a company that did a major project in Pascal.
They did end up making compiler extensions for the equivilent of
include files (including precompilation), and (IIRC) another extension to
convert an integer address into a pointer [for direct device access].
They added in a mutex library call.

The header files bit was an important extension for project management
purposes.

Most of the developers never needed direct device access.
The mutex call was hidden in a message passing queuing / dequeing
part of operations, so most of the developers never saw that level.

Thus, from the perspective of the developers, there was a minor wart
to include header files, and the rest of the changes were pretty much
transparent... apparently Just Plain Pascal.
--
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath
been already of old time, which was before us. -- Ecclesiastes

[Richard Bos]

"Jonathan Mcdougall" <jo***************@gmail.com> wrote:

Richard Bos wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
> about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

TROLL ALERT.

Care to explain what you base that exclamation on?

Richard

[Gaijinco]

No, I'm thinking more about a program to teach you how to program.

[Greg Comeau]

In article <43****************@news.xs4all.nl>,
Richard Bos <rl*@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote:

Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@nospam.cyberspace.org> wrote:

In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <ga******@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
> about programming?

Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
Pascal.

IMO Pascal may appear to "teach discipline" but if we're really
going to compare it against C, it really is a wash: people write
programs and as many of the same issues can be used in instruction
of both. That said, K&R2 has some unique aspects, and can certainly
be used in conjunction with whatever other resources are being used
for C programming.
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?

[Greg Comeau]

In article <dk**********@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
Richard Heathfield <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote:

you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
aside for a minute),
But many people do.
but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.
Have to disagree here. I mean, sure, lots of "classroom" is artificial,
but not all is.
So does Pascal. Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
how to program.

Maybe.
--
Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?