Emacs CC Mode's auto-newline facility: INFORMAL SURVEY

[Alan Mackenzie]

[Followup-To: gnu.emacs.help. Add your own group if you wish.]

To all those who use (X)Emacs's CC Mode to edit C, C++, Java,
Objective-C, Pike, AWK or IDL:

To help direct the development of CC Mode, it would be useful to find out
how people use the auto-newline "minor mode" facility. If you could
spare a little time, would you answer these questions, please:

o Do you program with auto-newline switched on (e.g. do you get NLs
inserted automatically after typing a `;' or `{')?
o Did you configure this auto-newline setting yourself, and if not, are
you happy with it?
o Are you aware of the key binding C-c C-a to toggle this mode on and
off?
o How often do you use C-c C-a (or even C-c C-t) to toggle auto-newline
mode?
o In which language(s) (C, C++, ....) do you program in (X)Emacs?

Further pertinent comments are, of course, welcome. Thanks in advance
for your time.

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aa**@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

[Alan Mackenzie]

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]

In gnu.emacs.help Alan Mackenzie <ac*@muc.de> wrote:

To help direct the development of CC Mode, it would be useful to find
out how people use the auto-newline "minor mode" facility. If you
could spare a little time, would you answer these questions, please:
A big thank you to all who responded, including another 7 who answered me
by email.

OK: Here are the results (Sometimes with a little necessary
interpretation), with my comments.
o Do you program with auto-newline switched on (e.g. do you get NLs
inserted automatically after typing a `;' or `{')? Yes: 13
No: 6
Wow! Lots of people use auto-newline. Like some respondents, I can't
stand it. It shows that we need it, and it needs to be optional.
o Did you configure this auto-newline setting yourself, and if not, are
you happy with it? Yes: 11
No: 4 No/Yes: 3
No/No: 0
Dumb double question there. Sorry.
o Are you aware of the key binding C-c C-a to toggle this mode on and
off? Yes: 6
No: 13
I counted someone who said "No, but I use the menu item" as a yes.
o How often do you use C-c C-a (or even C-c C-t) to toggle auto-newline
mode? Frequently:
Seldomly: 4
Never: 14
Not a popular toggle. It would seem that most people either definitely
want auto-newline or definitely don't want it. Very few seem to want to
toggle it whilst editing; maybe because most people don't know it
exists.
o In which language(s) (C, C++, ....) do you program in (X)Emacs?

C: 14
C++: 14
Objective-C: 2
Java: 7
Pike: 0
IDL: 1
AWK: 0
Most (but not all) C hackers are also C++ hackers. It's good to see that
Objective-C and IDL Modes are actually used. But where are the Pikers and
Awkers? (We know that there's _at least_ one of each ;-).

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aa**@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

[Chris Croughton]

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]
Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...
Most (but not all) C hackers are also C++ hackers. It's good to see that
Objective-C and IDL Modes are actually used. But where are the Pikers and
Awkers? (We know that there's _at least_ one of each ;-).

I use C, C++ and Awk (I've never heard of Pike), but I don't use emacs
<g>. I use Vim, and Vim's C mode works fine for Awk and C++ as well.
Perhaps all the other Awk writers don't use emacs either <g>...

Chris C

[Alan Mackenzie]

In comp.lang.awk Chris Croughton <ch***@keristor.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again] Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...
No problem! But without the Fup-To:, I'd have been getting hassle from 8
groups' worth of netcops. I've left comp.lang.awk in because I'm not
reading comp.lang.c at the moment.
Most (but not all) C hackers are also C++ hackers. It's good to see
that Objective-C and IDL Modes are actually used. But where are the
Pikers and Awkers? (We know that there's _at least_ one of each ;-).

I use C, C++ and Awk (I've never heard of Pike) .....
To quote from the pertinent Manual, "A C-like scripting language with its
roots in the LPC language used in some MUD engines. See
`http://pike.ida.liu.se/'". I've never seen any either, though it looks
like it's got some fairly sophisticated syntax.
...., but I don't use emacs <g>. I use Vim, and Vim's C mode works
fine for Awk and C++ as well. Perhaps all the other Awk writers don't
use emacs either <g>...
The big reason could be that a properly working AWK Mode hasn't yet been
incorporated into a main version of GNU Emacs.

Vim, you say. Hmm. There was a remark here (comp.lang.awk) recently
that Vim's syntax highlighting fails on this monstrosity:

{print a /(b+1)/ c, /(b+1)/, a (/b+1/) c}
1 2 3 4 5 6

.. Emacs's highlighting, by contrast, correctly highlights slashes 1 and
2 as division signs, and (3 4) and (5 6) as two pairs of regexp
delimiters. It also paints "a (" bright red, to warn that you've
possibly committed the syntax error of putting an erroneous space before
the l-paren of a non-built-in function call.
Chris C

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aa**@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

[Alan Balmer]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:17 +0000, Alan Mackenzie <ac*@muc.de> wrote:

In comp.lang.awk Chris Croughton <ch***@keristor.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]

Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...

No problem! But without the Fup-To:, I'd have been getting hassle from 8
groups' worth of netcops. I've left comp.lang.awk in because I'm not
reading comp.lang.c at the moment.

But why did you leave comp.lang.c in?
Is it really that much trouble for the OP to subscribe to the proper
group?

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************************@att.net

[Alan Mackenzie]

[Followup-To: _not_ set]

Alan Balmer <al******@att.net> wrote on Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:59:29 -0700:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:17 +0000, Alan Mackenzie <ac*@muc.de> wrote:

In comp.lang.awk Chris Croughton <ch***@keristor.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote: [Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again] Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...

No problem! But without the Fup-To:, I'd have been getting hassle from
8 groups' worth of netcops. I've left comp.lang.awk in because I'm not
reading comp.lang.c at the moment.

But why did you leave comp.lang.c in?
That's seems to be the "home" group of whom I'm replying to.
comp.lang.awk is the group for which the current theme is most on topic.
Is it really that much trouble for the OP to subscribe to the proper
group?
For whatever values of "OP" and "proper". But you've certainly given
point to my point about the netcops. ;-)

Have a great day!
--
Al Balmer

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aa**@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

[Chris Croughton]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:17 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

In comp.lang.awk Chris Croughton <ch***@keristor.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]

Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...

No problem! But without the Fup-To:, I'd have been getting hassle from 8
groups' worth of netcops. I've left comp.lang.awk in because I'm not
reading comp.lang.c at the moment.

Fair enough. It wasn't a complaint, I was just mentioning why I did it.
I probably should subscribe to comp.lang.awk...
I use C, C++ and Awk (I've never heard of Pike) .....

To quote from the pertinent Manual, "A C-like scripting language with its
roots in the LPC language used in some MUD engines. See
`http://pike.ida.liu.se/'". I've never seen any either, though it looks
like it's got some fairly sophisticated syntax.

I'll look for that...

...., but I don't use emacs <g>. I use Vim, and Vim's C mode works
fine for Awk and C++ as well. Perhaps all the other Awk writers don't
use emacs either <g>...

The big reason could be that a properly working AWK Mode hasn't yet been
incorporated into a main version of GNU Emacs.

Could be <g>. I'm not getting into editor wars (de gustibus non
disputandem est!), I just don't like emacs.
Vim, you say. Hmm. There was a remark here (comp.lang.awk) recently
that Vim's syntax highlighting fails on this monstrosity:

{print a /(b+1)/ c, /(b+1)/, a (/b+1/) c}
1 2 3 4 5 6

. Emacs's highlighting, by contrast, correctly highlights slashes 1 and
2 as division signs, and (3 4) and (5 6) as two pairs of regexp
delimiters. It also paints "a (" bright red, to warn that you've
possibly committed the syntax error of putting an erroneous space before
the l-paren of a non-built-in function call.

Ah, yes, Vim marks the first two as a regexp. I wonder if I can do
something about that...

I don't know that I'd want the "a (" marked, because it's not an error
in this case.

Followups now to comp.lang.awk where it's on-topic...

Chris C

[Chris Croughton]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:59:29 -0700, Alan Balmer
<al******@att.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:05:17 +0000, Alan Mackenzie <ac*@muc.de> wrote:

In comp.lang.awk Chris Croughton <ch***@keristor.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]

Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...

No problem! But without the Fup-To:, I'd have been getting hassle from 8
groups' worth of netcops. I've left comp.lang.awk in because I'm not
reading comp.lang.c at the moment.

But why did you leave comp.lang.c in?

I don't know which group you're reading (you didn't set followups), but
if he hadn't left comp.lang.c in I wouldn't have seen his reply because
I wasn't subscribed to either of the other likely groups (comp.lang.awk
or the emacs one).
Is it really that much trouble for the OP to subscribe to the proper
group?

If I'd known which "proper group" to subscribe to, but how would I know
that until he replied in a group which I do read? I'm not going to read
every newsgroup in existance just in case the reply might be there.

Now that I know he is using comp.lang.awk I'm subscribed here (and
followups are set to comp.lang.awk as well), because it could be of
interest (the emacs one isn't for me).

Chris C

[Alan Balmer]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:08:02 +0000, Alan Mackenzie <ac*@muc.de> wrote:

Is it really that much trouble for the OP to subscribe to the proper
group?

For whatever values of "OP" and "proper". But you've certainly given
point to my point about the netcops. ;-)

Just as you illustrate the characteristics of clueless posters. We
need a bad example now and then.

I really is little trouble, especially when there are archives such as
Google, to ascertain the topicality of a newsgroup before posting
there.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************************@att.net

[those who know me have no need of my name]

[fu-t set -- will it survive?]

in comp.lang.c i read:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:42:08 +0000, Alan Mackenzie
<ac*@muc.de> wrote:

[Followup-To: set to gnu.emacs.help once again]

Sorry, I've overridden it because I don't get that group...

wonderful. thanks for keeping the off-topic chatter here, rather than
finding a way to subscribe to that other group.

--
a signature