C++ Question about its possibilites to XP..

[pachanga]

I was thinking of learning C++ to really understand computer
programming. A lot of my friends tell me that C++ is faster and good
quality. My question is can C++ create Windows Applications? For
Windows XP? or is C++ limited to open source applications, command
prompt applications? Is it possible to create a real-time application
for Microsoft Windows using C++? I can't seem to find the answer using
keywords in my search engine. I am a bit confused.

[Ivan Vecerina]

"pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegrou ps.com...

I was thinking of learning C++ to really understand computer
programming. A lot of my friends tell me that C++ is faster and good
quality. My question is can C++ create Windows Applications? For
Windows XP? or is C++ limited to open source applications, command
prompt applications? Is it possible to create a real-time application
for Microsoft Windows using C++? I can't seem to find the answer using
keywords in my search engine. I am a bit confused.

If this helps answer your question, most applications (e.g. MS Office)
written by Microsoft are primarily written in C++. Microsoft fully
supports C++ for programming any interfaces provided by its operating
system.

However, the standard C++ language and libraries themselves do not
include the ability to program graphical user interfaces. Instead,
you need to use one of the many C++-compatible libraries that
are available (some are vendor-specific, some cross-platform).

For real-time applications, C++ is definitely a good choice.
For user interface programming itself, however, there are
languages that are easier to use: C# for MS.NET programming ;
java, which includes its own libraries for GUI programming ;
Python with TkInter or wxPython ; etc.
hth,
Ivan
--
http://ivan.vecerina.com/contact/?subject=NG_POST <- email contact form
Brainbench MVP for C++ <> http://www.brainbench.com

[pachanga]

would it be possible to use C++ has my core coding for a real-time
application and use C# for the user interface? user-interface (would be
the way it looks, buttons, windows form) but use C++ has my core coding
behind the curtain?

[Thomas Matthews]

pachanga wrote:

I was thinking of learning C++ to really understand computer
programming. A lot of my friends tell me that C++ is faster and good
quality. Faster than what? Assembly, LISP, Basic, FORTRAN, COBOL, etc.?
My question is can C++ create Windows Applications? Yes, one can write a program in C++ to create Windows applications on
different platforms, provided that those platforms support windowing.
For Windows XP? Probably, but ask in a Microsoft newsgroup. See the welcome.txt
link below.
or is C++ limited to open source applications, command prompt
applications? The usage of C++ is only limited to the platforms that have a
compiler for it. C++ can be used for vending machine applications,
VCRs, Dishwashers, and tape drives. Windows are not the only
platform in the world.
Is it possible to create a real-time application for Microsoft
Windows using C++? Depends on the Windows operating system and the other applications
that it is executing. A real-time program can be written in any
language. The operating system doesn't care what language the
program was written in. The operating system is responsible
for executing programs in a timely fashion. The program is
responsible for accomplishing tasks within the time limits.
I can't seem to find the answer using
keywords in my search engine. I am a bit confused.

To lessen your confusion, look up the following phrases
or words at http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/index.html
real time
operating system
application
open source
platform
--
Thomas Matthews

C++ newsgroup welcome message:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
Other sites:
http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library

[David]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:53:45 UTC, "pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote:

would it be possible to use C++ has my core coding for a real-time
application and use C# for the user interface? user-interface (would be
the way it looks, buttons, windows form) but use C++ has my core coding
behind the curtain?

That is an acceptable partitioning of the problem. Many languages
can be linked together and run as a single unit. While we all have our
favorite languages, it is good to remember that there are problems that
may better fit other tools and we should not be afraid to explore using
them. Of course, there is a certain ramp up time to becoming competant
in a new tool so just becuase it seems to be the right thing to use,
might not mean that is acceptable for the desired project.

Have fun with your project,

David
-- C++, C, Forth, Assembler for most of my current projects
-- Stopped counting after using 40+ languages

[Ivan Vecerina]

"pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

would it be possible to use C++ has my core coding for a real-time
application and use C# for the user interface? user-interface (would be
the way it looks, buttons, windows form) but use C++ has my core coding
behind the curtain?

Yes. If you use the .NET platform (which C# requires), the same
development environment allows you to easily compile other parts
of your project in C++.
Ivan
--
http://ivan.vecerina.com/contact/?subject=NG_POST <- email contact form

[Jack Klein]

On 15 Dec 2004 03:20:47 -0800, "pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote
in comp.lang.c++:

I was thinking of learning C++ to really understand computer
programming. A lot of my friends tell me that C++ is faster and good
quality. My question is can C++ create Windows Applications? For
Windows XP? or is C++ limited to open source applications, command
prompt applications? Is it possible to create a real-time application
for Microsoft Windows using C++? I can't seem to find the answer using
keywords in my search engine. I am a bit confused.

It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~a...FAQ-acllc.html

[Swampmonster]

It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

I second that.
And depending on what you call realtime you can also state that it's
impossible to write realtime applications for generic off-the-shelf PCs
regardless of the OS and/or compiler/language used :-) (google: SMI
system management interrupt realtime)

Sorry for the OT part...

Now to the C++ part. Yes, C++ can be used to write any kind of
windows-software (including kernelmode-drivers) and of course "real"
applications with nifty windows and stuff. Games, Browsers, Virus',
whatever you like. And your C++ app can be just about as much "realtime"
as it can get with windows - soley depending on your skill and training.

'monster

[David Lindauer]

Jack Klein wrote:

On 15 Dec 2004 03:20:47 -0800, "pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote
in comp.lang.c++:

I was thinking of learning C++ to really understand computer
programming. A lot of my friends tell me that C++ is faster and good
quality. My question is can C++ create Windows Applications? For
Windows XP? or is C++ limited to open source applications, command
prompt applications? Is it possible to create a real-time application
for Microsoft Windows using C++? I can't seem to find the answer using
keywords in my search engine. I am a bit confused.
It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

not at the application level. I've heard of people writing system code
(probably at the driver level) to take over the system and give precedence
to their own code at the expense of everything else in the system.

Besides, real time is in the eye of the beholder. The only expectation for
defining something as real time is whether the time it takes to complete a
program task is less than the time it is required to be completed in. So I
could design a program that I can give 10000 years to complete due to the
design constraints, and even if I think it will only take x months, if it
finishes any time before the 10000 year mark it is considered to have
completed in real time. 'real time' does NOT equate directly to 'fast
response time'.

David

--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~a...FAQ-acllc.html

[George Bush]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 04:27:10 +0100, Swampmonster wrote:

I second that.
And depending on what you call realtime you can also state that it's
impossible to write realtime applications for generic off-the-shelf PCs
regardless of the OS and/or compiler/language used :-) (google: SMI
system management interrupt realtime)

Hmm. What about RTLinux or RTAI? What makes those non-realtime, in your
mind? Seems some of the world's best engineers rely on RTOS's for IA32
architectures when developing realtime control applications.. if it's good
enough for them, i would say that yes, you CAN do realtime on COTS
hardware.

However, yes, without modifications, the Windows family of OS's is generic
and non hard-realtime.

[C++ Programmer]

"Jack Klein" <ja*******@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:52********************************@4ax.com...

On 15 Dec 2004 03:20:47 -0800, "pachanga" <qu*******@yahoo.com> wrote
in comp.lang.c++:
<<SNIPPED>> It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

Based on your response to the original poster's statement, can your
elaborate a bit on the following PDF document located at
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com...l82/82r&d1.pdf on the
World Wide Web. Given that I am not well learned in the area of real-time
computing, processing, or programming, I am interested in learning more on
this subject in relation to programming in the C++ language.

Thank you and have a g'day.

[Scott McPhillips [MVP]]

C++ Programmer wrote:

It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

Based on your response to the original poster's statement, can your
elaborate a bit on the following PDF document located at
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com...l82/82r&d1.pdf on the
World Wide Web. Given that I am not well learned in the area of real-time
computing, processing, or programming, I am interested in learning more on
this subject in relation to programming in the C++ language.

Thank you and have a g'day.

Real-time applications are broadly divided into two types, "hard" and
"soft".

Hard real-time requires that a function be performed within a specified
time deadline, absolutely all the time. This is not possible in
Windows, by design, because the user can run unknown multiple processes
that compete for the CPU time.

Soft real-time requires that a function be performed, on average and
usually, within a desired deadline. It is possible to do this in
Windows, and even more so with the help of specialized device drivers.
For example, playing an audio file is a real-time operation. It is
possible, but unlikely, that there will be pauses in the sound output if
the user does something like startup MS Flight Simulator.

--
Scott McPhillips [VC++ MVP]

[C++ Programmer]

"Scott McPhillips [MVP]" <org-dot-mvps-at-scottmcp> wrote in message
news:Ls********************@comcast.com...

C++ Programmer wrote:

It is NOT possible to create real-time applications for Microsoft
Windows, period. Regardless of programming language.

Based on your response to the original poster's statement, can your
elaborate a bit on the following PDF document located at
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com...l82/82r&d1.pdf on the
World Wide Web. Given that I am not well learned in the area of real-time
computing, processing, or programming, I am interested in learning more
on this subject in relation to programming in the C++ language.

Thank you and have a g'day.

Real-time applications are broadly divided into two types, "hard" and
"soft".

Hard real-time requires that a function be performed within a specified
time deadline, absolutely all the time. This is not possible in Windows,
by design, because the user can run unknown multiple processes that
compete for the CPU time.

Soft real-time requires that a function be performed, on average and
usually, within a desired deadline. It is possible to do this in Windows,
and even more so with the help of specialized device drivers. For example,
playing an audio file is a real-time operation. It is possible, but
unlikely, that there will be pauses in the sound output if the user does
something like startup MS Flight Simulator.

--
Scott McPhillips [VC++ MVP]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge in this particular area given that I
was not aware of the differences in 'hard' vs 'soft' real-time concepts.
Hence, I understand the original statement posted much better at this point
in time. So, the best case scenario for Windows would be a pseudo real-time
system so-to-speak, agreed? In other words, it's not a recommended choice if
designing a mission-critical system, correct?

Thanks again and have a g'day.