career change question -- not C++ specific

[jmh]

First, for those that view this as an OT post, sorry. I'm
not sure where to post (*.jobs?) but from reading there are
a number of people in this NG whose opinions I would respect
and welcome.

I'd like to get some feedback from the group regarding what
level of programming skills I should have before attempting
to make a move from being an end user support person into
programming and development.

I've been through two language specific classes, C and C++
(the latter is actually a first year CS course) I've done
some amount of just hacking things together for either
myself or to automate some trivail activity (say checking
an input file format or creating daily reports from an
ticketing system text export file) using VBScript, JScript
some basic DOS batch files and even written a simply
multivariate linear regression program in BASIC (MS, GW?).

I'm currently planning on returning to college to get
a MS in Information Security and Assurance and would like
to focus on the development of secure applications rather
than just the usual proxy/firewall/IDA things. Obviously,
to be any good at that I'm going to need some pretty good
progamming and development experience and practical
knowledge.

I can post the last C++ assignement--make two classes
play well with one another and overload << and >> for
input and output--if anyone thinks that might show
my aptitue and skill level.

My other question is about just what I might expect to
get pay wise as a junior programmer and if the 7 years
support experience is worth a premium or simply water
under the bridge. I'm in the DC area if anyone wants
to comment on some pay ranges.

If anyone what't to commented off line j.***@cox.net
will get to me.

TIA, and again sorry to any I've offended with an OT
post.

jmh

[Gary Labowitz]

"jmh" <j_***@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SMPMc.9239$_K2.5402@lakeread02...

First, for those that view this as an OT post, sorry. I'm
not sure where to post (*.jobs?) but from reading there are
a number of people in this NG whose opinions I would respect
and welcome.

I'd like to get some feedback from the group regarding what
level of programming skills I should have before attempting
to make a move from being an end user support person into
programming and development.

Know a couple of languages thoroughly.
Like to solve puzzles, riddles, problems without an answer key.
Like to work evenings, nights, and weekends.
Sometimes enjoy travel on a moment's notice.
Be able to look up almost anything in books, on-line, from guru friends,
etc.
Be able to work with managers and end users who don't know much about
a) what they want,
b) what you do,
c) what is possible,
d) how long things take.
Have a sense of humor about the ridiculous.

The specific languages, techniques, and theory you will need depends on the
particular job.
--
Gary

[Phlip]

jmh wrote:

First, for those that view this as an OT post, sorry. I'm
not sure where to post (*.jobs?) but from reading there are
a number of people in this NG whose opinions I would respect
and welcome.
And me.

(You could have tried news:comp.software-eng , but the C++ influence is
noted.)
I'd like to get some feedback from the group regarding what
level of programming skills I should have before attempting
to make a move from being an end user support person into
programming and development.
Download programs from http://sf.net , debug them, and add unit tests to
them.
I've been through two language specific classes, C and C++
(the latter is actually a first year CS course) I've done
some amount of just hacking things together for either
myself or to automate some trivail activity (say checking
an input file format or creating daily reports from an
ticketing system text export file) using VBScript, JScript
some basic DOS batch files and even written a simply
multivariate linear regression program in BASIC (MS, GW?).
Sounds good. Try Ruby, to get the MS and C++ taste out of your mouth. You
will be amazed. Programming doesn't have to be hard.
I'm currently planning on returning to college to get
a MS in Information Security and Assurance and would like
to focus on the development of secure applications rather
than just the usual proxy/firewall/IDA things. Obviously,
to be any good at that I'm going to need some pretty good
progamming and development experience and practical
knowledge.
That might be Computer Science. That's different from Software Engineering.
I can post the last C++ assignement--make two classes
play well with one another and overload << and >> for
input and output--if anyone thinks that might show
my aptitue and skill level.

Learn Test-Driven Development. A bug rate way lower than the lowest industry
averages will impress everyone.

Right now, investors don't invest in programmers unless the reward margin is
excessively high. That's because programmers have burned them so often will
long budget overruns, high bug rates, missed deadlines, etc. Getting ahead
of that curve will keep you very marketable.

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bi...UserInterfaces

[jeffc]

"Gary Labowitz" <gl*******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ws********************@comcast.com...

Like to work evenings, nights, and weekends.
This is true of almost any professional job (not to mention working at
MacDonald's). Then again many programmers don't work those hours. Just a
way for some programmers to feel overworked compared to others, I suppose.
Sometimes enjoy travel on a moment's notice.

This is true of almost any professional job. Then again, there are many
jobs, including programming jobs, where it isn't true. Wishful thinking
about the alleged jet-set lifestyle of a programmer compared to other jobs,
I suppose.