I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
given you already have programming experience in another prog. language? 35  7860 
"Markus Dreyer" <sp**********@spam.com> wrote in message
news:op**************@news.jhu.edu... I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying.
Now that seems to me to be a pretty clueless thing to say. I'll leave it to
the experts whether the book needs any updating due to very recent changes
in the language, however.
Markus Dreyer wrote: I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw
a lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated?
Is a new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++
quickly given you already have programming experience in another prog.
language?
She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Accelerated C++ is not outdated. It is the best
book of it's kind. C++ was standardized in 1998
and haven't changed since. So the book is as up to
date as can be. And it is brilliant. Buy it!
/David
"Markus Dreyer" <sp**********@spam.com> wrote in message
news:op**************@news.jhu.edu...
perhaps you should consulting your faculty. I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
given you already have programming experience in another prog. language?
Markus Dreyer wrote: I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying.
Your librarian is a C++ expert? Wow. Is she cute? ;-)
--
Mike Smith
"David Rasmussen" <da*************@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bu**********@news.net.uni-c.dk...
She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Accelerated C++ is not outdated. It is the best
book of it's kind. C++ was standardized in 1998
and haven't changed since. So the book is as up to
date as can be. And it is brilliant. Buy it!
I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book on
C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from 2000.
However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
Jonathan
Markus Dreyer wrote: I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
I don't have the book.
I just saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web.
Do you think that it's outdated? Is a new version planned?
Andrew may want to answer this.
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:40**************@jpl.nasa.gov... Markus Dreyer wrote:
[The is for the benefit of the OP. Robert, there's no need to respond]
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was finalized.
There are a number of places where statements in the third edition do
not agree with the standard (addressed throroughly on Bjarne's
website.)
The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.
All three are excellent. The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is
ridiculous.
Jonathan Turkanis wrote: E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was finalized.
There are a number of places where statements in the third edition do
not agree with the standard (addressed thoroughly on Bjarne's
website.)
The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.
All three are excellent.
The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is ridiculous.
In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
*all* of these texts are "outdated".
"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:40**************@jpl.nasa.gov... Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been
drafted, *all* of these texts are "outdated".
See my original post.
In article <op**************@news.jhu.edu>,
Markus Dreyer <sp**********@spam.com> wrote: I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
given you already have programming experience in another prog. language?
Accelerated C++ is the best beginner's C++ book on the market today.
Highly recommended. Own a copy of it myself. If I wanted to teach a
basic C++ course today, I would definitely use this book as the course
text.
Howard Hinnant
Metrowerks
Member of C++ standards committee.
painfully aware of every little change since 2000 and responsible for a
few of them myself.
"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message news:<40**************@jpl.nasa.gov>... Markus Dreyer wrote:
I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
It is not. AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books. it
is an excellent book that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
often, rather than some proprietary system. I don't have the book.
I just saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web.
Do you think that it's outdated? Is a new version planned?
Andrew may want to answer this.
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
Bjarne Stroustrup wrote: I wrote:
Markus Dreyer wrote:
I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
It is not. AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books.
It is an excellent book
that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
which does not change often rather than some proprietary system.
Exactly how often must the ISO C++ Standard change
before the current textbooks are "outdated"? :-)
Should I got out and buy a new copy of
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition"
to replace the worn and dogeared copy that I am using now?
Or should I wait for the "Fourth Edition"?
I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
would appreciate a little guidance here.
She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerated C++"?
Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book on
C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from 2000.
However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
What are the changes?
/David
E. Robert Tisdale wrote: but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
Why??
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
I'd still say AC++.
/David
E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
*all* of these texts are "outdated".
Where can I read about this? What new things are included?
/David
David Rasmussen wrote: E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
*all* of these texts are "outdated".
Where can I read about this? What new things are included?
And more importantly: Does any of these changes affect the truthness of
the stuff in AC++?
/David
"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:
AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books.
It is an excellent book
that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
which does not change often rather than some proprietary system.
Exactly how often must the ISO C++ Standard change
before the current textbooks are "outdated"? :-)
"about every decade" :-) Actually, the issue is a bit more subtle.
Many books are up-to-date in the sense that they don't use
pre-standard facilities. To me, the bigger issue is whether they
actually take advantage of the developments in standard features,
standard library, and programming techniques over the last decade or
so when they use and teach Standard C++. Many books don't, and present
a 1990-vintage view of C++, or even a 1987-vintage (no templates, no
exceptions, no multiple inheritance) view.
Should I got out and buy a new copy of
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition"
to replace the worn and dogeared copy that I am using now?
Or should I wait for the "Fourth Edition"?
Obviously, I won't discourage a replacement :-) but the contents
wouldn't be the reason. There is no need for a 4th edition for another
while yet.
I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
would appreciate a little guidance here.
She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerated C++"?
Don't expect replacements for another three or 4 years. These two
books are still describing Standard C++ as defined and shipped, and
still describe styles of use that are in advance of much current
practice.
That's fact, what's opinion is that those two books are among the very
best available for their purposes.
-- Bjarne Stroustrup; http://www.research.att.com/~bs
"David Rasmussen" <da*************@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:bu**********@news.net.uni-c.dk... E. Robert Tisdale wrote: but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
Why??
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
I'd still say AC++.
/David
I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++ was
the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to C++,
including historical background and paradigms.
Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
the extracts, I've read).
/Peter
"Markus Dreyer" <sp**********@spam.com> wrote in message
news:op**************@news.jhu.edu... I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying.
It isn't out of date.
In fact, there are some statements (those having to do with
value-initialization) in the book that were not quite true of the C++1998
standard, but are correct for the C++2003 standard. Barbara and I made a
guess that the standard was going to be revised and wrote those parts of the
book so that they referred to the revision. We also took pains to be sure
that all of the examples in the book would work with both the C++1998 and
C++2003 standards.
> > Where can I read about this? What new things are included?
And more importantly: Does any of these changes affect the truthness of
the stuff in AC++?
You can find the complete list of changes here: http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/author.../revisions.pdf
To my knowledge, the only effect that these changes have on AC++ is to
transform some previously false statements into true ones :-) That is, the
book anticipated some of the changes.
Peter Koch Larsen wrote:
I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++ was
the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to C++,
including historical background and paradigms.
Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
the extracts, I've read).
The advice is lousy because even if TC++PL is an excellent book, AC++ is
just much more excellent when it comes to _learning_ C++. I am not
saying that you can't learn C++ from TC++PL. A lot of people did,
including you. I am just saying that as good as it might be for that
purpose, AC++ is much better. It is not as complete as TC++PL, and not
as good as a reference. But it is much more to the point when it comes
to teaching good habits and avoiding pitfalls.
I have both books, and they're equally excellent in their niche:
teaching and reference.
I recommend you read and absorb AC++ first, then TC++PL. "The Design And
Evolution Of C++" is also a very exciting read.
/David
/David
"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:40**************@jpl.nasa.gov... I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
would appreciate a little guidance here.
She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerated C++"?
Barbara and I are not working on any substantial revisions to "Accelerated
C++." When mistakes are brought to our attention, we shall, as we have in
the past, correct those mistakes in subsequent printings.
My most recent publishing project doesn't actually include my name anywhere,
but I had my hand in it anyway: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/0470846747 http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470846747
Barbara and I are both working on other books; I hope you'll hear about them
later this year.
"Peter Koch Larsen" <pk*@mailme.dk> wrote in message
news:40**********************@dread14.news.tele.dk ...
> What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
> you already have programming experience
> in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
I'd still say AC++.
I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++
was the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to
C++, including historical background and paradigms.
Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
the extracts, I've read).
As Mr. Stroustrup himself just acknowledged, both books are good "for their
purposes". TCPL and Accelerated C++ are different books and I think most
programmers should have both, but a reference by definition is not the best
book with which to "learn C++ quickly", which is what the OP was
specifically looking for. The books themselves state their intended
purposes: Accelerated C++ is to help you in writing C++ programs quickly.
It even refers specifically to TCPL for those who want "more". TCPL is
broader and more detailed to help those who want to achieve "mastery". I'm
happy it worked for you, but I disagree with your advice too.
"David Rasmussen" <da*************@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bu**********@news.net.uni-c.dk...
I recommend you read and absorb AC++ first, then TC++PL. "The Design And
Evolution Of C++" is also a very exciting read.
Yes but make sure you keep it under your mattress so no one discovers
it......
jeffc wrote:
Yes but make sure you keep it under your mattress so no one discovers
it......
LOL...
/David
In article <40**************@jpl.nasa.gov>, E.**************@jpl.nasa.gov says...
[ ... ] In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
*all* of these texts are "outdated".
The basic idea here is incorrect. The standard has been updated, but
only minimally so, and most of the changes are merely to make the
standard actually require what was intended in the first place.
A book would only be rendered obsolete if some of the information it
gave became incorrect or out of date, and the recent changes are
unlikely to do that with most books -- the most they'd do is render
obsolete a footnote in a few that says something like "technically, the
memory of a vector isn't _required_ to be contiguous, but it always is
anyway.", because now it IS required to be contiguous. That, right
there, is probably the single most visible change in the standard, which
gives an indication of just how subtle most of the changes really were
(and gives an indication of how good a job the committee did in the
first place, getting that large and complex a document so accurate that
even after years of intense study, only such minor defects have been
found).
--
Later,
Jerry.
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
Markus Dreyer wrote: I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just
saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's
outdated? Is a new version planned? What is the best current book to
learn C++ quickly given you already have programming experience in
another prog. language?
It is not outdated. You need to find a politically correct way to tell you
secretary to make decisions in her competence area only. I am sure that
Accelerated C++ is not outdated a tiny bit, its content is A OK, even with
the 2003 revision of the standard. Which was mainly a "bug fix" revision,
making original intent obvious.
--
Attila aka WW
E. Robert Tisdale wrote: Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was
finalized. There are a number of places where statements in the
third edition do not agree with the standard (addressed thoroughly
on Bjarne's website.)
The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.
All three are excellent.
The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is ridiculous.
In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
*all* of these texts are "outdated".
False. There is no C++ standard out, which you could call *new*. There is
a Technical Corrigendum added to the existing standard to clarify its
original content.
--
Attila aka WW
David Rasmussen wrote: Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book
on C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from
2000. However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
What are the changes?
There are no changes, only "bug fixes", making the original intent clear.
Andrew Koenig has an unofficial list of changes on his web (search
comp.std.c++ for the announcement) or you can buy the PDF version of the
2003 standard at the ANSI store for 18USD.
--
Attila aka WW
E. Robert Tisdale wrote: Markus Dreyer wrote:
I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying that it might be outdated
since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
That's probably correct.
Completely incorrect. It is a myth, that the 2003 standard is a different
C++. I would say it is basically updates for clarification. I don't have the book.
I just saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web.
Do you think that it's outdated? Is a new version planned?
Andrew may want to answer this.
What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
you already have programming experience
in another programming language?
"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
Quickly is the keyword. And I believe that (knowing the average ability of
most novice programmers to read and study non-obvious text) while the above
book is very good, I would not call it a quick introductory book of the
language. It is a rather heavyweight material, although it does not bite
your ear off. :-)
--
Attila aka WW
Mike Smith wrote: Markus Dreyer wrote:
I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published
in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
Your librarian is a C++ expert? Wow. Is she cute? ;-)
I would answer no to the previous question. But if she is cute I can help
about that. :-)
--
Attila aka WW
Peter Koch Larsen wrote:
[SNIP] I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me
C++ was the second edition of that book - and the third edition is
one of the best C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an
excellent introduction to C++, including historical background and
paradigms.
Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review
and the extracts, I've read).
I guess if you read the two books you will agree that AccCpp is much closer
to a quick and painless introduction than TC++PL. :-) This does not judge
any of the books negatively, they are just different. There are people who
have no problem using TC++PL and get good results,but IMHO the average would
just give up or suffer. And remember: we talk absolute beginners, who have
learnt Pascal or something but did not do real work yet.
BTW Francis Glassborow did an interesting beginners book, for people not
knowing programming at all(!), and uses C++ as a language. ;-)
--
Attila aka WW
Andrew Koenig wrote: "Markus Dreyer" <sp**********@spam.com> wrote in message
news:op**************@news.jhu.edu...
I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published
in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.
It isn't out of date.
In fact, there are some statements (those having to do with
value-initialization) in the book that were not quite true of the
C++1998 standard, but are correct for the C++2003 standard. Barbara
and I made a guess that the standard was going to be revised and
wrote those parts of the book so that they referred to the revision.
We also took pains to be sure that all of the examples in the book
would work with both the C++1998 and C++2003 standards.
To back up what Andrew Koenig has just said: I have thaugh 20 beginners
using AccCpp at my workplace some time ago. The book was an absolute
success. We had few dropout, who have also suddenly dropped out of the
company as well. The only "complaint" was that "we are not university
students, why should we do those pointless exercises about them". But of
course it was simple to explain that Andrew would have a hard time to write
a book based on Media Gateway Controller production related code. :-)
Anyway. In my company people cannot be forced to learn. These guys were
pretty much overloaded, and they still did show up, made the exercises and
reated the book (and because of that me) excellent. It speaks for itself.
--
Attila aka WW
"Attila Feher" <at**********@lmf.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:bv**********@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se... David Rasmussen wrote: Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a
book on C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from
2000. However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
What are the changes?
There are no changes, only "bug fixes", making the original intent
clear. Andrew Koenig has an unofficial list of changes on his web (search
comp.std.c++ for the announcement) or you can buy the PDF version of
the 2003 standard at the ANSI store for 18USD.
The distinction between 'making the original intent clear' and fixing
small problems that nobody noticed can be a bit fuzzy. I thing it's
safer to say that the changes are all relatively minor, major changes
and extensions being reserved for future consideration.
Jonathan
Jonathan Turkanis wrote: The distinction between 'making the original intent clear' and fixing
small problems that nobody noticed can be a bit fuzzy. I thing it's
safer to say that the changes are all relatively minor, major changes
and extensions being reserved for future consideration.
Yeah, it would be more politically correct to tell: "you can say" it is
only...
Actually as I have understood the changes are mainly fixes and
clarifications. And even most of the fixes are just making the text say
what it already wanted to. :-)
--
Attila aka WW This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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by: tracyyun |
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Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each...
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by: agi2029 |
last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing,...
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by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM).
In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new...
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