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Boost process and C

Hi,

Is there any group in the manner of the C++ Boost group that works on
the evolution of the C language? Or is there any group that performs an
equivalent function?

Thanks,
-vs

Apr 29 '06
335 11964
Robert Latest wrote:
On 2006-04-29, jacob navia <ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:

Operator overloading is a well known technique, no need to swallow
all C++ to get it. Thank you

What's so great about operator overloading?

Nothing that justifies adding it to C.

--
Ian Collins.
May 2 '06 #171
we******@gmail. com wrote:
Ian Collins wrote:
Where would you draw the line on topicality?

My interpretation is

Off topic:

Platform specific issues.
Product specific issues.

On topic:

The current language and its use.

This contradicts both of the two Off topic categories that you cite.

How and where?

--
Ian Collins.
May 2 '06 #172
On Mon, 01 May 2006 23:40:44 +0200, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
Keith Thompson a écrit :
comp.lang.c++ in effect tried a similar experiment some years ago. It
barely survived. As it drowned in a flood of discussions of
system-specific C++ programming, the regulars who wanted to talk about
the language itself drifted away.

But that's the point Keith.


The point is that you want the regulars to drift away? Stop taking
acid please.
We want to talk ABOUT THE LANGUAGE ITSELF.
indeed.
Not just the narrow definition of "The language as it was in 1989" or
"The language as specified in the C standard",
but that *is* the language.
but including discussions
like this discussion, that is the first in many years that touches
topics that go beyond
your idea is like creating a group specially to discuss the French
language, but insisting to also discuss Franglais, patois, lingala,
and all the other derivants of French.
Everything is frozen here, like in a museum.


You're quite wrong, but then I don't expect you to see this, since you
have a twisted and bizarre view of CLC. Please go away and play
somewhere else.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #173
On Tue, 02 May 2006 14:06:50 +0200, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
Yes, because in this polemic situation it is difficult to discuss
It is only polemic because you make inflammatory statements like this:
Everything is frozen here, like in a museum.
Neither you nor anyone else has any authority to tell me what I should do or not do.
And make false statements such as
Substantive discussions about software constructions, pro/cons of
specific ways of writing in C, or discussions about the language itself
and its direction, new proposals etc, are
"beyond the scope of this group".


The first three of these are entirely topical here and are frequently
discussed. The last is indeed offtopic, since its the subject of
comp.std.c.

I really do find it hard to see why you can't understand this. Perhaps
you ought to stop being so "gallic" and feeling insulted about it, and
try to listen to the advice you receive instead. Is it /really/ so
difficult to restrict your posts to topical material, and avoid
wandering off into discussions about how lcc's extensions work, or dos
assembly language or whatever?
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #174
On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:36:16 +0200, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
C should be kept as dead as
possible.
Yup, its dead. You can move on now, nothing to see.Usenet is there to allow people interchange ideas, proposals, ways of
working, etc


indeed. So why don't you interchange some, instead of trying to force
everyone to agree with you? :-)

--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #175
On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:27:59 +0200, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
Robert Latest a écrit :

What's so great about operator overloading?
It is a technique for defining new numeric types and new kinds of
operations for numeric types.


And? Whats so great about that?
This is not possible in standard C.


Yes. And?

Whats your point? That other environments have features that are
useful? Great. In that case will you please add the sys$system
routines to lcc immediately, they were handy features too, like
whenever I need to rewind a DEC tape or dismount a cluster member in
my 8800s.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #176
On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:53:55 +0200, in comp.lang.c , jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
Richard Heathfield a écrit :
jacob navia said:
It is a technique for defining new numeric types and new kinds of
operations for numeric types.

He didn't ask what it is. He asked what's so great about it.


Consider that the MMX instruction set is around 10 years old now,


Can you point out where in my 80386 and in my 68000 the MMX
instructions are to be found? Please don't claim that these chips are
no longer used. How about in the IA-64 core or in the chip driving my
(and probably your) router? Or in my palmtop PC or DVD recorder?
and that we have yet to see a mapping of those operations into C.


perhaps because not all the world's a pentium?
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #177
On 2 May 2006 06:37:47 -0700, in comp.lang.c , we******@gmail. com
wrote:
Ben Pfaff wrote:
jacob navia <ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> writes:
> Ben Pfaff a icrit :
>> we******@gmail. com writes:
>>>You are saying you should throw out an entire language because you
>>>don't like the way it handles strings?
>> It depends on your priorities. I wouldn't want to rewrite a Perl
>> program that does complex string processing in C.
>
> You mean then in substance:
>
> "Since C strings are completely screwed up, do NOT try to change that,
> but learn Perl".


No. I mean that some string operations can be expressed shorter
and with more clarity in Perl than in C. No new string library will change
this.


That's a pretty wishy washy premise on which to base an implied
disapproval of Bstrlib.


Ben did not say that, you made it up to provoke a reaction. Please
don't do that, it detracts from the quality of your arguments and
causes people to apply hostile filters.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
May 2 '06 #178
Bill Pursell wrote:
Operator overloading is, IMHO, a really, really bad idea. I've only
been coding C for just under a year, and 11 months ago I was really
bent out of shape that I couldn't write:
struct foo A,B,C;
A = B + C;
but I'm really glad now that I can't, and I would hate to see operater
overloading be expanded in C. Operator overloading in C is the root
cause of a very large number of bugs already. How many bugs are a
result of "3+4" being different that "3.0 + 4.0"? Those bugs would
have been avoided had the programmer been required to type
"int_add(3, 4)" or "float_add(3,4) ". Now, I'm not arguing that the '+'
symbol be dropped for arithmetic on basic numeric types, but expanding
the language to allow '+' as an infix operator on user-defined structs
is just asking for trouble. The only gain is (arguably) cleaner code,
but quite frankly "A = foo_add(B,C)" is more informative than "A =
B+C" and less prone to error.


without operator overloading, how about just an infix notation
for 2-ary functions (with, e.g., functions evaluated left to right,
all with the same priority) ?

typedef struct Vect { double x, y; } Vect;

infix Vect Vect_Sub (Vect u, Vect v) {
return (Vect) { .x= u.x - v.x, .y= u.y - v.y };
}
infix Vect Vect_Scale (double lambda, Vect u) {
return (Vect) { .x= lambda*u.x, .y= lambda*u.y };
}
infix double Vect_Dot (Vect u, Vect v) {
return u.x * v.x + u.y * v.y;
}
int main (void) {
Vect u, v, w, p, q, r, s, t;
...
t= ((v Vect_Sub u) Vect_Dot (w Vect_Sub v))
Vect_Scale (p Vect_Sub q Vect_Sub r Vect_Sub s);
...
}
May 2 '06 #179
Ian Collins wrote:
Robert Latest wrote:
On 2006-04-30, jacob navia <ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:
.... snip ...

Until they have to port it to a new environment. Then they will
see how easy is to port the libc. Basically you do not port it.


And the STL is easier to port?


I think the point was you don't have to, because it is part of the
language, the compiler vendor does this.


And, if you write the library in truly portable C, without any
silly extensions and/or entanglements, you just compile the library
module. All the compiler vendor need to do is meet the
specifications of the C standard.

Simple, huh?

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.c om, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell. org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsrep ly/>
May 3 '06 #180

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