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why still use C?

no this is no trollposting and please don't get it wrong but iam very
curious why people still use C instead of other languages especially C++.

i heard people say C++ is slower than C but i can't believe that. in pieces
of the application where speed really matters you can still use "normal"
functions or even static methods which is basically the same.

in C there arent the simplest things present like constants, each struct and
enum have to be prefixed with "struct" and "enum". iam sure there is much
more.

i don't get it why people program in C and faking OOP features(functi on
pointers in structs..) instead of using C++. are they simply masochists or
is there a logical reason?

i feel C has to benefit against C++.

--
cody

[Freeware, Games and Humor]
www.deutronium.de.vu || www.deutronium.tk
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comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05
687 23917
"Robert Seacord" <rc*@sei.cmu.ed uwrote in message
news:cl******** ********@pletho ra.net...
Clark,

Comment/question below.
>>const int foo = 4;
In C, foo is a variable and will be treated as such. int *pf =
(int *)&foo;
*pf = x;

You are mistaken. You cannot legally do that in either language.

From the standard:

6.7.3 5
"If an attempt is made to modify an object defined with a
const-qualified type through use of an lvalue with non-const-qualified
type, the behavior is undefined."

I lifted the following example from c99 6.5.16.1 Simple assignment:

const char **cpp;
char *p;
const char c = 'A';

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

cpp = &p; // constraint violation
*cpp = &c; // valid
*p = 'B'; // valid

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

It compiles without warning on Microsoft Visual C++ .NET (2003) and on
MS Visual Studio 2005. In both cases, the resulting program changes the
value of c.

gcc version 3.2.2 generates a warning but compiles. The resulting
program changes the value of c.

I guess I'm wondering what a constraint violation is. I know a
constraint is defined as a restriction, either syntactic or semantic, by
which the exposition of language elements is to be interpreted.

But doesn't a compliant compiler need to issue a fatal diagnostic for a
constraint violation. Or maybe even a warning?
A compiler can accept anything and remain conforming. This is partly because
it is impossible to test that every contorted example of bad syntax will be
caught, parlty because so many compilers allow extensions.

Constraint violations are examples of "bad grammar". For instance assigning
an integer a pointer value. However often there is god reason for doing
this, because integers and pointers are often stored in exactly the same
registers, and it might be important to get the absolute value of a pointer,
for instance implementing a %p option in a printf-like function.
--
www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm
freeware games to download.
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Aug 25 '06 #671
On 18 Aug 2006 08:53:41 GMT, in comp.lang.c , Robert Seacord
<rc*@sei.cmu.ed uwrote:
>>
You are mistaken. You cannot legally do that in either language.
I lifted the following example from c99 6.5.16.1 Simple assignment:
(snip example of constraint violation)
>It compiles without warning on Microsoft Visual C++ .NET (2003) and on
MS Visual Studio 2005.
Thats a QOI issue, and may be because you didn't set VC into
"conforming mode". Most compilers come with lots of extensions to the
standard, and you need to turn them all off.
>But doesn't a compliant compiler need to issue a fatal diagnostic for a
constraint violation. Or maybe even a warning?
Its obligated to do so, but only if in conforming mode.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
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Aug 25 '06 #672
In comp.lang.c.mod erated Robert Seacord <rc*@sei.cmu.ed uwrote:
6.7.3 5
"If an attempt is made to modify an object defined with a
const-qualified type through use of an lvalue with non-const-qualified
type, the behavior is undefined."
I guess I'm wondering what a constraint violation is.
[...]

Something that has less to do with undefined behaviour than you appear
to believe. That statement up there is crystal clear: modifying a
const-qualified object, by any means expressable in C, is as illegal
as anything in a C programming context can be: it causes undefined
behaviour.
But doesn't a compliant compiler need to issue a fatal diagnostic
for a constraint violation. Or maybe even a warning?
Of course it does. So all you've just demonstrated is that MS
compilers aren't compliant with the standard (at least not in the
operational modes you tested). That's hardly newsworthy.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (br*****@physik .rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.
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Aug 25 '06 #673
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:53:41 UTC, Robert Seacord <rc*@sei.cmu.ed u>
wrote:
Clark,

Comment/question below.
const int foo = 4;
In C, foo is a variable and will be treated as such. int *pf =
(int *)&foo;
*pf = x;
You are mistaken. You cannot legally do that in either language.

From the standard:

6.7.3 5
"If an attempt is made to modify an object defined with a
const-qualified type through use of an lvalue with non-const-qualified
type, the behavior is undefined."

I lifted the following example from c99 6.5.16.1 Simple assignment:
No example will do against the standard.

Undefined behavior lives as undefined behavior ALWAYS.

There is nothing you can do against undefined behavior as avoid it
under all circumstances.

--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.ecomstation.de the home of german eComStation
eComStation 1.2 Deutsch ist da!
--
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have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.
Aug 25 '06 #674
On 18 Aug 2006 08:53:41 GMT in comp.lang.c.mod erated, Robert Seacord
<rc*@sei.cmu.ed uwrote:
>Clark,

Comment/question below.
>>const int foo = 4;
In C, foo is a variable and will be treated as such. int *pf =
(int *)&foo;
*pf = x;

You are mistaken. You cannot legally do that in either language.

From the standard:

6.7.3 5
"If an attempt is made to modify an object defined with a
const-qualified type through use of an lvalue with non-const-qualified
type, the behavior is undefined."

I lifted the following example from c99 6.5.16.1 Simple assignment:

const char **cpp;
char *p;
const char c = 'A';

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

cpp = &p; // constraint violation
*cpp = &c; // valid
*p = 'B'; // valid

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

It compiles without warning on Microsoft Visual C++ .NET (2003) and on
MS Visual Studio 2005. In both cases, the resulting program changes the
value of c.
MS supports C89 and stated it has no intention of supporting C99.
>gcc version 3.2.2 generates a warning but compiles. The resulting
program changes the value of c.

I guess I'm wondering what a constraint violation is. I know a
constraint is defined as a restriction, either syntactic or semantic, by
which the exposition of language elements is to be interpreted.

But doesn't a compliant compiler need to issue a fatal diagnostic for a
constraint violation. Or maybe even a warning?
More recent versions of gcc (4+) have tightened up considerably on
what they will accept.

--
Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Br**********@CS i.com (Brian[dot]Inglis{at}Syste maticSW[dot]ab[dot]ca)
fake address use address above to reply
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Aug 25 '06 #675
Malcolm wrote:
....
A compiler can accept anything and remain conforming.
Not quite true: the one an only feature of a program that requires a
conforming implementation of C to reject it is a #error directive which
survives to the end of the pre-processing phase.
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Aug 31 '06 #676
Brian Inglis wrote:
On 18 Aug 2006 08:53:41 GMT in comp.lang.c.mod erated, Robert Seacord
<rc*@sei.cmu.ed uwrote:

I lifted the following example from c99 6.5.16.1 Simple assignment:

const char **cpp;
char *p;
const char c = 'A';

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

cpp = &p; // constraint violation
*cpp = &c; // valid
*p = 'B'; // valid

printf("c = %c.\n", c);

It compiles without warning on Microsoft Visual C++ .NET (2003) and on
MS Visual Studio 2005. In both cases, the resulting program changes the
value of c.

MS supports C89 and stated it has no intention of supporting C99.
Even if this example is extracted from the C99 standard, this is a
constraint violation in C89 too! (in C89 there are additional
constraint violations for // comments).

So, if this compliance problem persists when all the ISO-compliance
flags are passed to the compiler, you can report a bug.
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or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.
Aug 31 '06 #677
In comp.std.c ku****@wizard.n et wrote:
>
The only case where the C standard prohibits an
implementation from translating a TU is if it contains a #error
directive which survives conditional compilation.
Chapter and verse, please? As far as I know, #error is only required to
produce a diagnostic, not terminate translation.

-Larry Jones

What's the matter? Don't you trust your own kid?! -- Calvin
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Aug 31 '06 #678
"Malcolm" <re*******@btin ternet.comwrite s:
[...]
A compiler can accept anything and remain conforming. This is partly because
it is impossible to test that every contorted example of bad syntax will be
caught, parlty because so many compilers allow extensions.
That's *almost* true; a comforming compiler must reject a program that
contains a "#error" directive. The actual wording in the C99 standard
(4p4) is:

The implementation shall not successfully translate a
preprocessing translation unit containing a #error preprocessing
directive unless it is part of a group skipped by conditional
inclusion.
Constraint violations are examples of "bad grammar". For instance
assigning an integer a pointer value. However often there is god
reason for doing this, because integers and pointers are often
stored in exactly the same registers, and it might be important to
get the absolute value of a pointer, for instance implementing a %p
option in a printf-like function.
I think "grammar" is a poorly chosen word here. The grammar defines
the *syntax* of the language; in that sense, "bad grammar" would be
something like a missing semicolon or an extra parenthesis. I think
of constraint violations as a different class of errors. For example this:

int x = "foo";

is a constraint violation, but it doesn't violate the grammar.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
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Aug 31 '06 #679
Brian Inglis wrote:
MS supports C89 and stated it has no intention of supporting C99.
That's not what they have said; what they said was that they would
implement C99 features as customer demand warranted.
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Aug 31 '06 #680

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