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why still use C?

no this is no trollposting and please don't get it wrong but iam very
curious why people still use C instead of other languages especially C++.

i heard people say C++ is slower than C but i can't believe that. in pieces
of the application where speed really matters you can still use "normal"
functions or even static methods which is basically the same.

in C there arent the simplest things present like constants, each struct and
enum have to be prefixed with "struct" and "enum". iam sure there is much
more.

i don't get it why people program in C and faking OOP features(functi on
pointers in structs..) instead of using C++. are they simply masochists or
is there a logical reason?

i feel C has to benefit against C++.

--
cody

[Freeware, Games and Humor]
www.deutronium.de.vu || www.deutronium.tk
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05
687 23922
"Thad Smith" <th**@ionsky.co m> wrote in message
news:cl******** ********@pletho ra.net...
Francis Glassborow wrote:
During the last two weeks of October WG14 (C) and
WG21 (C++) both voted to work on providing decimal floating point types.


Where did the impetus for this originate? I would think something like
concurrency support would be more meaningful to most C and C++
programmers than decimal floating point. I would think that C++
programmers could handle this with decimal libraries and overloading
without affecting the core language. Why is the C committee considering
this?


IBM gave an excellent presentation on the need for decimal arithmetic in
a large proportion of calculations being performed these days. (Most tax
and interest laws specify decimal algorithms, which are hard to emulate
correctly with binary.) They also described the implementation being
developed as part of IEEE 754R, the current revision to the venerable
binary floating-point standard. And they informed us that they will be
producing CPUs with this arithmetic implemented in hardware.

I can tell you that both the C and C++ committees were skeptical at
the outset and pretty thoroughly convinced in the end. They've even
agreed to *cooperate* [sic] to ensure that C and C++ remain compatible
in this area.

Perhaps if you'd been there, you might have voted differently.

P.J. Plauger
Dinkumware, Ltd.
http://www.dinkumware.com

P.S. The effect on the core language is still to be determined. Some of
us hope to keep it pretty minimal.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #481
Casper H.S. Dik <Ca********@Sun .COM> writes:
Keith Thompson <ks*@cts.com> writes:
The macros look fine, but the casts are still unnecessary and
potentially dangerous. Why not just

#define NEW(type) \
(malloc(sizeof( type)))


The use of macros to "hide" standard constructs is not "fine" by any
definition of "fine" that I can think of.


Sure, if that is the only purpose. But as discussed in this thread,
the purpose here is to improve type-safety.

Most C programmers will be familiar with the use of "new" in C++, Java,
or C#, so this technique of using a "NEW" macro like the one above is
generally very easy to grasp. That, incidentally, is why I slightly
prefer this approach to the other approach suggested in this thread:

#define ALLOC(obj) \
(obj = malloc(sizeof(* obj)))

--
Fergus Henderson <fj*@cs.mu.oz.a u> | "I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit"
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
Nov 13 '05 #482
In article <cl************ ****@plethora.n et>,
Francis Glassborow <fr*****@robint on.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It is worth noting that those responsible for the languages are fully
aware of both the differences and the need to remain aligned where it
makes sense to do so. During the last two weeks of October WG14 (C) and
WG21 (C++) both voted to work on providing decimal floating point types.
What makes this ground breaking is that they also agreed that the real
work would be done under a single editor via an obscure (and little used
ISO mechanism) called a rapateur (so obscure that I am not even sure of
the spelling) group which will be jointly and severally created by the
convenors of WG14 & WG21.


Not so obscure. Rapporteur. Possibly not familiar to an english speaker,
as this is originally a french word. Used to denote an advisory person
or group, under somewhat formal circumstances (e.g., for a PhD thesis, in
France, you normally have two or three rapporteurs, whose mission is to
read the manuscript for the thesis and give an informed report to the
jury).
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #483
"P.J. Plauger" wrote:

"Thad Smith" <th**@ionsky.co m> wrote in message
news:cl******** ********@pletho ra.net...
Francis Glassborow wrote:
During the last two weeks of October WG14 (C) and
WG21 (C++) both voted to work on providing decimal floating point types.
Where did the impetus for this originate? I would think something like
concurrency support would be more meaningful to most C and C++
programmers than decimal floating point. I would think that C++
programmers could handle this with decimal libraries and overloading
without affecting the core language. Why is the C committee considering
this?


IBM gave an excellent presentation on the need for decimal arithmetic in
a large proportion of calculations being performed these days.

..... I can tell you that both the C and C++ committees were skeptical at
the outset and pretty thoroughly convinced in the end. They've even
agreed to *cooperate* [sic] to ensure that C and C++ remain compatible
in this area.


Thanks P.J., Francis, and Douglas, and Fred for your helpful and
informed responses. I suspect there are other regular readers here that
were as surprised as I am about the proposal. IF decimal f.p. is going
to be added to both languages, it certainly makes sense to make them
compatible.

My bias is that decimal arithmetic is more the domain of Cobol and
PL/I. Perhaps it is time to add this support to other popular
languages. My first thought was "OK, add it to C++. It should be
relatively easy. Programmers who want decimal f.p. can use C++. C is
more for system routines and embedded applications that don't have much
demand for decimal f.p."

If that viewpoint is out of touch, please clue me in. ;-)

Thad
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #484
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DA****@null.ne t> writes:
Exactly how the C standard will accommodate this is still an
open question; we might simply revise the floating-point model
to allow float, double, and long double to use decimal
representation, [...]


Doesn't it already? FLT_RADIX is constrained to be greater than
or equal to 2, which doesn't preclude decimal representation
as far as I can tell.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #485
"Fred J. Tydeman" wrote:
Decimal floating-point is being added to IEEE-754R
Floating-Point standard (the revision of IEEE-754
now in progress).


Here is a set of web pages on why decimal floating-point
is needed:

http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/decimal

---
Fred J. Tydeman Tydeman Consulting
ty*****@tybor.c om Programming, testing, numerics
+1 (775) 287-5904 Vice-chair of J11 (ANSI "C")
Sample C99+FPCE tests: ftp://jump.net/pub/tybor/
Savers sleep well, investors eat well, spenders work forever.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #486
In article <cl************ ****@plethora.n et>, Thad Smith
<th*******@acm. org> writes
IF decimal f.p. is going
to be added to both languages, it certainly makes sense to make them
compatible.


Given that it is likely to involve new hardware inside chips a single
standard method is probably essential. Certainly at the lower levels.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys. org www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #487
Ben Pfaff <bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> writes:
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DA****@null.ne t> writes:
Exactly how the C standard will accommodate this is still an
open question; we might simply revise the floating-point model
to allow float, double, and long double to use decimal
representation, [...]


Doesn't it already? FLT_RADIX is constrained to be greater than
or equal to 2, which doesn't preclude decimal representation
as far as I can tell.


In theory, perhaps; but in practice, no, because backwards compatibility,
binary compatibility, and compatibility with other standards would prevent
implementations from defining `float' and `double' with decimal
representations . The only feasible way of supporting decimal floating
point in C would be for it to be a new type, rather than replacing one
of the existing types.

--
Fergus Henderson <fj*@cs.mu.oz.a u> | "I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit"
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #488
In comp.lang.c.mod erated Marc Espie <es***@tetto.ge ntiane.org> wrote:
[...]
Not so obscure. Rapporteur. Possibly not familiar to an english
speaker, as this is originally a french word.


I'd say it's unfamiliar to native English speakers because they have
made their own version of this word so they no longer use the
original. This anglified version is "reporter". Not quite as in
"journalist " but more as in: person assigned to investigate something
and make a report about it to a larger institution.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (br*****@physik .rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #489
In article <cl************ ****@plethora.n et>, Ben Pfaff
<bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> writes
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DA****@null.ne t> writes:
Exactly how the C standard will accommodate this is still an
open question; we might simply revise the floating-point model
to allow float, double, and long double to use decimal
representation, [...]


Doesn't it already? FLT_RADIX is constrained to be greater than
or equal to 2, which doesn't preclude decimal representation
as far as I can tell.


However the full proposal goes somewhat further than just using ten as
the radix.
--
Francis Glassborow ACCU
If you are not using up-to-date virus protection you should not be reading
this. Viruses do not just hurt the infected but the whole community.
--
comp.lang.c.mod erated - moderation address: cl**@plethora.n et
Nov 13 '05 #490

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