Re: .NET GUI Quirks - By Design?

[J.B. Moreno]

Shalom Shachne <sh***********@gmail.comwrote:

Family Tree Mike <[e-mail]:

"[e-mail]" wrote:

Hi -

-snip-

1. Tooltips: Autopop property has hidden undocumented limit.
No matter how high you set the value, tool tip will disappear
after around 30 seconds. Does that make sense? Also, once
Autopop time has expired, returning mouse over control does not
redisplay the tool tip.

-snip-

1. I cannot imagine wanting a tooltip to stay lit for that long,
but apparently the way to do this is with the StopTimer method. It
is protected so you need to create your own "InfiniteToolTip" class
that inherits from ToolTip.

-- to my thinking, Tooltip should be able to stay visible as long as
user hovers over the area. Hover over something in Visual Studio.
You will see that the Tooltip never disappears. I think that's what
users expect. If you have very short text, however, I agree there is
no need to make it always visible.

I don't know -- I'd be of two minds about it, one that makes sense, and
two, it might be annoying to have a tooltip hiding something else
because the mouse is over a control.

But the main issue, is that if you hover over the area until ToolTip
disappears, you'll never see that ToolTip again (Try it.). Can you
explain why that makes sense?

Sorta...

If you move the mouse over another control and then back over the one
that is no longer displaying, it will reappear.

So, I'd guess the logic was that if it's been displayed long enough to
be hidden, then the user will remember it -- at least until after
they've needed to be told about something else.

I did create my own ToolTip subclass. Just seems wasteful to need to
do that.

Yeah. I'd expect the property that controls how long it will display,
to display it that long...

--
J.B. Moreno

[Shalom Shachne]

On Jul 3, 12:06 am, "J.B. Moreno" <[e-mail]:

Shalom Shachne <[e-mail]:

Family Tree Mike <[e-mail]:

"[e-mail]" wrote:
Hi -

-snip-

1. Tooltips: Autopop property has hidden undocumented limit.
No matter how high you set the value, tool tip will disappear
after around 30 seconds. Does that make sense? Also, once
Autopop time has expired, returning mouse over control does not
redisplay the tool tip.

-snip-

1. I cannot imagine wanting a tooltip to stay lit for that long,
but apparently the way to do this is with the StopTimer method. It
is protected so you need to create your own "InfiniteToolTip" class
that inherits from ToolTip.

-- to my thinking, Tooltip should be able to stay visible as long as
user hovers over the area. Hover over something in Visual Studio.
You will see that the Tooltip never disappears. I think that's what
users expect. If you have very short text, however, I agree there is
no need to make it always visible.

I don't know -- I'd be of two minds about it, one that makes sense, and
two, it might be annoying to have a tooltip hiding something else
because the mouse is over a control.

But the main issue, is that if you hover over the area until ToolTip
disappears, you'll never see that ToolTip again (Try it.). Can you
explain why that makes sense?

Sorta...

If you move the mouse over another control and then back over the one
that is no longer displaying, it will reappear.

So, I'd guess the logic was that if it's been displayed long enough to
be hidden, then the user will remember it -- at least until after
they've needed to be told about something else.

I did create my own ToolTip subclass. Just seems wasteful to need to
do that.

Yeah. I'd expect the property that controls how long it will display,
to display it that long...

--
J.B. Moreno

Responding to this point:

So, I'd guess the logic was that if it's been displayed long enough to
be hidden, then the user will remember it -- at least until after
they've needed to be told about something else.

Here's the thing, if that were actually true, then it would be fine.
But the tool tip will NEVER reappear, ever again, no matter what you
do after it disapears (except if you restart the app.) Try it:

1. Create a form with 2 buttons.
2. Put a tool tip on both buttons.
3. Hover over button1 until tool tip disappears.
4. Hover over button2 - and then hover over button1 again. You won't
see the tool tip. and there's nothing you can do to bring it back.
Nothing....

:)
(I'd post the test form I made, but I don't see any way to attach
files to a post...)

What's funny is the how many responses I've seen to this where people
tell me the tool tip will come back if you just do X, Y, or Z.
Actually, no one tried any of their own suggestions, because I can
tell you, after looking into it for quite a while - it just doesn't
come back, no matter what you do. (Except if you subclass the control
like I did, what a waste.)

I think the bane of a programmer's existence are hidden, poorly (or
not at all) documented behaviors that the designers thought made
sense. Give the programmers the control, make the properties do what
they say, and let us decide what is good or not good for users...

Thanks for your comments - let me know if I'm way off base here...

[J.B. Moreno]

In article <da**********************************@59g2000hsb.g ooglegroups.com>, Shalom Shachne <sh***********@gmail.comwrote:

On Jul 3, 12:06 am, "J.B. Moreno" <[e-mail]:

Shalom Shachne <[e-mail]:

"[e-mail]" wrote:
Hi -

-snip-

1. Tooltips: Autopop property has hidden undocumented limit.
No matter how high you set the value, tool tip will disappear
after around 30 seconds.

-snip-

But the main issue, is that if you hover over the area until ToolTip
disappears, you'll never see that ToolTip again (Try it.). Can you
explain why that makes sense?

Sorta...

If you move the mouse over another control and then back over the one
that is no longer displaying, it will reappear.

So, I'd guess the logic was that if it's been displayed long enough to
be hidden, then the user will remember it -- at least until after
they've needed to be told about something else.

-snip-

Here's the thing, if that were actually true, then it would be fine.
But the tool tip will NEVER reappear, ever again, no matter what you
do after it disapears (except if you restart the app.) Try it:

1. Create a form with 2 buttons.
2. Put a tool tip on both buttons.
3. Hover over button1 until tool tip disappears.
4. Hover over button2 - and then hover over button1 again. You won't
see the tool tip. and there's nothing you can do to bring it back.
Nothing....

:)
(I'd post the test form I made, but I don't see any way to attach
files to a post...)

What's funny is the how many responses I've seen to this where people
tell me the tool tip will come back if you just do X, Y, or Z.
Actually, no one tried any of their own suggestions, because I can
tell you, after looking into it for quite a while - it just doesn't
come back, no matter what you do. (Except if you subclass the control
like I did, what a waste.)

Well, I *DID* try it, and although you shouldn't attach files to post
to text newsgroups, there's nothing wrong with including a lot of
text....so here's my code (the tip displays for ~30 seconds and then
disappears just like you said, move the mouse to the 2nd label and
*it's* tip shows and so will the 1st one's).

Public Class Form1
Inherits System.Windows.Forms.Form
Public Sub New()
InitializeComponent()

ToolTip1.AutoPopDelay = 6000 * 300

End Sub
'Form overrides dispose to clean up the component list.
Protected Overrides Sub Dispose(ByVal disposing As Boolean)
Try
If disposing AndAlso components IsNot Nothing Then
components.Dispose()
End If
Finally
MyBase.Dispose(disposing)
End Try
End Sub

'Required by the Windows Form Designer
Private components As System.ComponentModel.IContainer

'NOTE: The following procedure is required by the Windows Form Designer
'It can be modified using the Windows Form Designer.
'Do not modify it using the code editor.
Private Sub InitializeComponent()
Me.components = New System.ComponentModel.Container
Me.ToolTip1 = New System.Windows.Forms.ToolTip(Me.components)
Me.Label1 = New System.Windows.Forms.Label
Me.Label2 = New System.Windows.Forms.Label
Me.SuspendLayout()
'
'Label1
'
Me.Label1.AutoSize = True
Me.Label1.Location = New System.Drawing.Point(35, 44)
Me.Label1.Name = "Label1"
Me.Label1.Size = New System.Drawing.Size(39, 13)
Me.Label1.TabIndex = 0
Me.Label1.Text = "Label1"
Me.ToolTip1.SetToolTip(Me.Label1, "Label1")
'
'Label2
'
Me.Label2.AutoSize = True
Me.Label2.Location = New System.Drawing.Point(116, 44)
Me.Label2.Name = "Label2"
Me.Label2.Size = New System.Drawing.Size(39, 13)
Me.Label2.TabIndex = 1
Me.Label2.Text = "Label2"
Me.ToolTip1.SetToolTip(Me.Label2, "Label2")
'
'Form1
'
Me.AutoScaleDimensions = New System.Drawing.SizeF(6.0!, 13.0!)
Me.AutoScaleMode = System.Windows.Forms.AutoScaleMode.Font
Me.ClientSize = New System.Drawing.Size(292, 266)
Me.Controls.Add(Me.Label2)
Me.Controls.Add(Me.Label1)
Me.Name = "Form1"
Me.Text = "Form1"
Me.ResumeLayout(False)
Me.PerformLayout()

End Sub
Friend WithEvents ToolTip1 As System.Windows.Forms.ToolTip
Friend WithEvents Label1 As System.Windows.Forms.Label
Friend WithEvents Label2 As System.Windows.Forms.Label
End Class

--
J.B. Moreno

[J.B. Moreno]

J.B. Moreno <pl***@newsreaders.comwrote:

-snip-

Public Class Form1
Inherits System.Windows.Forms.Form
Public Sub New()
InitializeComponent()

ToolTip1.AutoPopDelay = 6000 * 300

End Sub

To anyone that cares -- sorry for the VB, I switch back and forth all
day, and that's what I used last. I tested it with C# as well, no
difference (not that I expected one) I also used VS2005 and VS2008 and
framework 2.0 and 3.5

--
J.B. Moreno