..NET 1.1/2.0
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms). One well known solution is to create a
Panel with AutoScroll set to "true" and then add a PictureBox or
another Panel to it, that is used to display the image.
The above approach works, however, to my surprise, .NET GDI+-based
graphics are not really hi-res friendly.
Consider the following codes examples:
1)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 6000, 6000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- Works OK
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
The full stack of the error is:
System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory.
at System.Drawing.TextureBrush..ctor(Image image, WrapMode
wrapMode)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintBackground(Paint EventArgs e,
Rectangle rectangle)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaintBackground(Pai ntEventArgs
pevent)
at
System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandlin g(PaintEventArgs e,
Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmEraseBkgnd(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32
msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
Internally, the TextureBrush constructor makes a call to
GdipCreateTexture() method in gdiplus.dll, and, apparently, there is
some limit on the image size that the method can handle.
Obviously, I am hitting some limit of GDI+ here, but still need to
find a solution. I want to stay with .NET, if possible and avoid using
any third-party ActiveX controls.
What alternatives can I pursue?
Will going with .NET 3.x and WPF help?
TIA!
11  9608 
There are no real solutions to this problem. A 32 bit process has a 2
gigabyte address limit but in reality the usable limits of memory in a .NET
program are somewhat less.
GDI+ is not well suited to dealing with large images and certainly, a 14000
by 10000 full colour image would hit the scales at a little over 534
megabytes.
An image loaded into memory may have far more memory allocated to it than
just the image file size. This is because the image itself might be held in
memory and then the raster image is also held in it's fully expanded state.
If the picture box is double buffered there may even be two full copies of
the image in memory.
--
--
Bob Powell [MVP]
Visual C#, System.Drawing
Ramuseco Limited .NET consulting http://www.ramuseco.com
Find great Windows Forms articles in Windows Forms Tips and Tricks http://www.bobpowell.net/tipstricks.htm
Answer those GDI+ questions with the GDI+ FAQ http://www.bobpowell.net/faqmain.htm
All new articles provide code in C# and VB.NET.
Subscribe to the RSS feeds provided and never miss a new article.
"Usenet User" <no*****@no.waywrote in message
news:a4********************************@4ax.com...
.NET 1.1/2.0
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms). One well known solution is to create a
Panel with AutoScroll set to "true" and then add a PictureBox or
another Panel to it, that is used to display the image.
The above approach works, however, to my surprise, .NET GDI+-based
graphics are not really hi-res friendly.
Consider the following codes examples:
1)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 6000, 6000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- Works OK
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
The full stack of the error is:
System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory.
at System.Drawing.TextureBrush..ctor(Image image, WrapMode
wrapMode)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintBackground(Paint EventArgs e,
Rectangle rectangle)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaintBackground(Pai ntEventArgs
pevent)
at
System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandlin g(PaintEventArgs e,
Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmEraseBkgnd(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32
msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
Internally, the TextureBrush constructor makes a call to
GdipCreateTexture() method in gdiplus.dll, and, apparently, there is
some limit on the image size that the method can handle.
Obviously, I am hitting some limit of GDI+ here, but still need to
find a solution. I want to stay with .NET, if possible and avoid using
any third-party ActiveX controls.
What alternatives can I pursue?
Will going with .NET 3.x and WPF help?
TIA!
Bob Powell [MVP] wrote:
There are no real solutions to this problem. A 32 bit process has a 2
gigabyte address limit but in reality the usable limits of memory in
a .NET program are somewhat less.
At least, potential solutions such as MapViewOfFile aren't very accessible
from C#.
>
GDI+ is not well suited to dealing with large images and certainly, a
14000 by 10000 full colour image would hit the scales at a little
over 534 megabytes.
An image loaded into memory may have far more memory allocated to it
than just the image file size. This is because the image itself might
be held in memory and then the raster image is also held in it's
fully expanded state. If the picture box is double buffered there may
even be two full copies of the image in memory.
On Apr 24, 6:04 pm, "Ben Voigt [C++ MVP]" <r...@nospam.nospamwrote:
Bob Powell [MVP] wrote:
If the picture box is double buffered there may
even be two full copies of the image in memory.
The picture box is definitely double buffered. I had a similar
problem a while ago, and the solution was to change the container
control from a picture box to a user control.
Details here: http://nomagichere.blogspot.com/2007...-creature.html
Marc
I suppose it is necessary to use Windows 64bits, and forget about 32 bits.
Carlos.
"Bob Powell [MVP]" <bo*@spamkillerbobpowell.netwrote in message
news:BC**********************************@microsof t.com...
There are no real solutions to this problem. A 32 bit process has a 2
gigabyte address limit but in reality the usable limits of memory in a
..NET
program are somewhat less.
GDI+ is not well suited to dealing with large images and certainly, a
14000
by 10000 full colour image would hit the scales at a little over 534
megabytes.
An image loaded into memory may have far more memory allocated to it than
just the image file size. This is because the image itself might be held
in
memory and then the raster image is also held in it's fully expanded
state.
If the picture box is double buffered there may even be two full copies of
the image in memory.
--
--
Bob Powell [MVP]
Visual C#, System.Drawing
Ramuseco Limited .NET consulting
http://www.ramuseco.com
Find great Windows Forms articles in Windows Forms Tips and Tricks
http://www.bobpowell.net/tipstricks.htm
Answer those GDI+ questions with the GDI+ FAQ
http://www.bobpowell.net/faqmain.htm
All new articles provide code in C# and VB.NET.
Subscribe to the RSS feeds provided and never miss a new article.
"Usenet User" <no*****@no.waywrote in message
news:a4********************************@4ax.com...
.NET 1.1/2.0
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms). One well known solution is to create a
Panel with AutoScroll set to "true" and then add a PictureBox or
another Panel to it, that is used to display the image.
The above approach works, however, to my surprise, .NET GDI+-based
graphics are not really hi-res friendly.
Consider the following codes examples:
1)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 6000, 6000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- Works OK
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
The full stack of the error is:
System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory.
at System.Drawing.TextureBrush..ctor(Image image, WrapMode
wrapMode)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintBackground(Paint EventArgs e,
Rectangle rectangle)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaintBackground(Pai ntEventArgs
pevent)
at
System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandlin g(PaintEventArgs e,
Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmEraseBkgnd(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32
msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
Internally, the TextureBrush constructor makes a call to
GdipCreateTexture() method in gdiplus.dll, and, apparently, there is
some limit on the image size that the method can handle.
Obviously, I am hitting some limit of GDI+ here, but still need to
find a solution. I want to stay with .NET, if possible and avoid using
any third-party ActiveX controls.
What alternatives can I pursue?
Will going with .NET 3.x and WPF help?
TIA!
Couldn't he just copy portions of the bitmap into a picturebox through
an unsafe method with pointers ? I doubt very much he has a
14000x14000 display, so only a small rectangle of the original image
is shown at any time, and copying 4 bytes at a time is really fast.
I've done it for a graphics app, including zoom levels (by factors of
two), and you can't tell the difference with native routines.
(on a side note, if Bob hadn't written his GDI+ FAQ, my app wouldn't
even exist. My eternal thanks to you, Bob !).
Michel
On 24 avr, 19:48, Usenet User <no.s...@no.waywrote:
.NET 1.1/2.0
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms). One well known solution is to create a
Panel with AutoScroll set to "true" and then add a PictureBox or
another Panel to it, that is used to display the image.
The above approach works, however, to my surprise, .NET GDI+-based
graphics are not really hi-res friendly.
Consider the following codes examples:
1)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 6000, 6000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- Works OK
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
The full stack of the error is:
System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory.
* *at System.Drawing.TextureBrush..ctor(Image image, WrapMode
wrapMode)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintBackground(Paint EventArgs e,
Rectangle rectangle)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaintBackground(Pai ntEventArgs
pevent)
* *at
System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandlin g(PaintEventArgs e,
Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmEraseBkgnd(Message& m)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message& m)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage& m)
* *at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32
msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
Internally, the TextureBrush constructor makes a call to
GdipCreateTexture() method in gdiplus.dll, and, apparently, there is
some limit on the image size that the method can handle.
Obviously, I am hitting some limit of GDI+ here, but still need to
find a solution. I want to stay with .NET, if possible and avoid using
any third-party ActiveX controls.
What alternatives can I pursue?
Will going with .NET 3.x and WPF help?
TIA!
fd******@hotmail.com wrote:
Couldn't he just copy portions of the bitmap into a picturebox through
an unsafe method with pointers ? I doubt very much he has a
14000x14000 display, so only a small rectangle of the original image
is shown at any time, and copying 4 bytes at a time is really fast.
That doesn't help much. You can't keep the whole image in memory, whether
in a Bitmap, PictureBox, or whatever. The math forbids having
32-bpp*14000x14000 (=~2GB) in a 32-bit address space where 2GB is reserved
by the kernel and some more is taken up by code and other data.
You need MapViewOfFile or AWE or something to select certain parts of the
data into your virtual address space. None of these tools are readily
available to .NET.
I've done it for a graphics app, including zoom levels (by factors of
two), and you can't tell the difference with native routines.
(on a side note, if Bob hadn't written his GDI+ FAQ, my app wouldn't
even exist. My eternal thanks to you, Bob !).
Michel
On 24 avr, 19:48, Usenet User <no.s...@no.waywrote:
>.NET 1.1/2.0
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms). One well known solution is to create a
Panel with AutoScroll set to "true" and then add a PictureBox or
another Panel to it, that is used to display the image.
The above approach works, however, to my surprise, .NET GDI+-based
graphics are not really hi-res friendly.
Consider the following codes examples:
1)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 6000, 6000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- Works OK
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
The full stack of the error is:
System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory.
at System.Drawing.TextureBrush..ctor(Image image, WrapMode
wrapMode)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintBackground(Paint EventArgs e,
Rectangle rectangle)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaintBackground(Pai ntEventArgs
pevent)
at
System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandli ng(PaintEventArgs e,
Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmEraseBkgnd(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage (Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(M essage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32
msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
Internally, the TextureBrush constructor makes a call to
GdipCreateTexture() method in gdiplus.dll, and, apparently, there is
some limit on the image size that the method can handle.
Obviously, I am hitting some limit of GDI+ here, but still need to
find a solution. I want to stay with .NET, if possible and avoid
using any third-party ActiveX controls.
What alternatives can I pursue?
Will going with .NET 3.x and WPF help?
TIA!
Usenet User wrote:
I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms).
2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
To work on a 32-bit stack, you've basically got to give up trying to
load the whole bitmap into memory. You're going to have to create a set
of filters that are able to read slices of scanlines out of the image,
possibly with extra processing to integrate zoom info, etc. In essence,
write a viewer for a model, where the model is the data on-disk. The
FileStream class works fine for multi-gigabyte files.
The image stuff in the .NET/Win32 box won't work at that scale, as we're
talking many gigabytes per image when rasterized. The Windows GDI/+
stuff is designed for images for on-screen display and printing, not so
much for totally scalable image manipulation.
If it seems like too much work / beyond your capability set, then you'll
be better off buying. You will probably be better off buying in any
case, as I assume gigapixel imaging isn't one of your business's core
competencies.
-- Barry
-- http://barrkel.blogspot.com/
"Barry Kelly" <ba***********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:p5********************************@4ax.com...
Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
>Barry Kelly wrote:
Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
[...]
Depending on the image file format, for any given cropped area, each
subsequent scan line of pixels / pixel groups will likely be very
distant in the file, many strides away. IMO a view that builds up a
screen-viewable picture, whether zoomed out (and thus an aggregate of
data) or zoomed in, is best off processing the file in a forward-only
fashion to pick up the data it needs. To get efficient scrolling, a
combination of caching and prediction would probably help.
MapViewOfFile should gracefully degrade to this, but use memory when
possible.
MapViewOfFile will only directly help if the image is a raw bitmap and
you're displaying it with a image pixel to screen pixel ratio <= 1, and
even then it'll be limited. Since you'll need to copy each slice of
pixels into a single bitmap for actual on-screen display, you don't save
as much as you could when avoiding a copy by piggybacking the VM/FS
caching subsystem, IMO.
I was under the impression that mapped files do use the same virtual memory
code, just backed by a real file instead of the swapfile.
Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
"Barry Kelly" <ba***********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:p5********************************@4ax.com...
>Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
>>Barry Kelly wrote:
Depending on the image file format, for any given cropped area, each
subsequent scan line of pixels / pixel groups will likely be very
distant in the file, many strides away. IMO a view that builds up a
screen-viewable picture, whether zoomed out (and thus an aggregate of
data) or zoomed in, is best off processing the file in a forward-only
fashion to pick up the data it needs. To get efficient scrolling, a
combination of caching and prediction would probably help.
MapViewOfFile should gracefully degrade to this, but use memory when
possible.
MapViewOfFile will only directly help if the image is a raw bitmap and
you're displaying it with a image pixel to screen pixel ratio <= 1, and
even then it'll be limited. Since you'll need to copy each slice of
pixels into a single bitmap for actual on-screen display, you don't save
as much as you could when avoiding a copy by piggybacking the VM/FS
caching subsystem, IMO.
I was under the impression that mapped files do use the same virtual
memory code, just backed by a real file instead of the swapfile.
That is the only thing making sense.
But the docs only describe "what" not "how".
Arne
Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
"Barry Kelly" <ba***********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:p5********************************@4ax.com...
Ben Voigt [C++ MVP] wrote:
MapViewOfFile will only directly help if the image is a raw bitmap and
you're displaying it with a image pixel to screen pixel ratio <= 1, and
even then it'll be limited. Since you'll need to copy each slice of
pixels into a single bitmap for actual on-screen display, you don't save
as much as you could when avoiding a copy by piggybacking the VM/FS
caching subsystem, IMO.
I was under the impression that mapped files do use the same virtual memory
code, just backed by a real file instead of the swapfile.
That's what I meant. Virtual memory, which requires paging in and out on
demand, is very similar to file-system caching, so they are often
implemented by the same OS subsystem.
-- Barry
-- http://barrkel.blogspot.com/
Thank you for the input, everyone!
I managed to find a couple of "purely .NET" controls that do what I
want. One of them is included in DotImage SDKs by Atalasoft
($600-$2500). The other one is part of Imagistik Image Viewer by
Informatik. (The latter is noticeably slower when resizing images or
displaying thumbnails, however.) Both handle my humongous multi-page
TIFFs rather gracefully. Reflector shows that both solutions
ultimately rely on GDI+ and nothing else. The internals in both cases
are rather complex, though.
On Fri, 09 May 2008 11:53:09 +0100, Barry Kelly
<ba***********@gmail.comwrote:
>Usenet User wrote:
>I have a need to display high-resolution scrollable images in a .NET
application (Windows Forms).
>2)
Bitmap b = new Bitmap( 14000, 10000 );
panel2.BackgroundImage = b; // <-- "Out of memory" error
To work on a 32-bit stack, you've basically got to give up trying to
load the whole bitmap into memory. You're going to have to create a set
of filters that are able to read slices of scanlines out of the image,
possibly with extra processing to integrate zoom info, etc. In essence,
write a viewer for a model, where the model is the data on-disk. The
FileStream class works fine for multi-gigabyte files.
The image stuff in the .NET/Win32 box won't work at that scale, as we're
talking many gigabytes per image when rasterized. The Windows GDI/+
stuff is designed for images for on-screen display and printing, not so
much for totally scalable image manipulation.
If it seems like too much work / beyond your capability set, then you'll
be better off buying. You will probably be better off buying in any
case, as I assume gigapixel imaging isn't one of your business's core
competencies.
-- Barry
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