What'll happen to Java when...

[cat_dog_ass]

....Microsoft ports the .NET framework to other operating systems? Will
the only advantage that Java has over .NET be lost?

I've been a Java programmer and will be shifting to .NET soon. Is this
a wise choice? Is the learning curve for C# a lot flatter than Java?

[Michael A. Covington]

...Microsoft ports the .NET framework to other operating systems? Will

the only advantage that Java has over .NET be lost?

Other people (not Microsoft) are doing the porting already. It's called the
Mono Project.

I've been a Java programmer and will be shifting to .NET soon. Is this
a wise choice? Is the learning curve for C# a lot flatter than Java?

I'm a little unsure about how you'd use C# on a small embedded system. It's
a big language and a big framework. Does Java have any advantages in that
regard?

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

cat_dog_ass <de*****************@yahoo.comwrote:

...Microsoft ports the .NET framework to other operating systems? Will
the only advantage that Java has over .NET be lost?

Java has some other advantages:
1) It's had many years to get established in a lot of places which
won't want to change any time soon
2) There's a lot more 3rd party support for Java (in terms of open
source libraries etc)
3) Eclipse :)
4) Java going open source will open doors in some places, and for a
long time it's been helpful to be able to debug into the standard
libraries

I've been a Java programmer and will be shifting to .NET soon. Is this
a wise choice? Is the learning curve for C# a lot flatter than Java?

I'd say that (particularly with the changes in C# 2 and 3) C# has
become a significantly more complex language than Java. In both cases,
however, learning the framework is probably a bigger task than learning
the language itself.

As for the wisdom of the choice: I don't think a good C# and Java
developer will find it hard to get work any time soon.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Ebbe Kristensen]

Michael A. Covington wrote:

I'm a little unsure about how you'd use C# on a small embedded
system. It's a big language and a big framework.

You can use C# with the Compact Framework on Windows CE based embedded
platforms. You won't be able to satisfy hard real-time requirements but
neither will any Java run-time.

Ebbe

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

On Jun 25, 7:48 am, "Ebbe Kristensen" <[e-mail]:

Michael A. Covington wrote:

I'm a little unsure about how you'd use C# on a small embedded
system. It's a big language and a big framework.

You can use C# with the Compact Framework on Windows CE based embedded
platforms.

True - but I think Java has generally been made to scale down beyond
where you'd normally see the Compact Framework.

You won't be able to satisfy hard real-time requirements but
neither will any Java run-time.

I don't know to what level it satisfies hard constraints, but real-
time Java has been under development for a long time:

http://java.sun.com/javase/technolog...time/index.jsp

(I can't say I've heard much about it being *used* admittedly...)

Jon

[Alberto Poblacion]

"Michael A. Covington" <lo**@ai.uga.edu.for.addresswrote in message
news:eq**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

[...]
I'm a little unsure about how you'd use C# on a small embedded system.
It's a big language and a big framework.

There is the .NET Micro Framework:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/bb267253.aspx

[Niels Ull]

Java has some other advantages:

1) It's had many years to get established in a lot of places which
won't want to change any time soon

In addition, the platform support for Java is much larger - you won't see
Mono running on mainframes anytime soon.

2) There's a lot more 3rd party support for Java (in terms of open
source libraries etc)

Agreed.

3) Eclipse :)

Having a free full-featured IDE is definitely a great boost (although I personally
prefer IntelliJ Idea for Java development).

4) Java going open source will open doors in some places, and for a
long time it's been helpful to be able to debug into the standard
libraries

I'm not sure how much open sourcing will really change. "In some places"
of course, but frankly I don't think most people care all that much as long
as it's free.

I'll snip the rest, since I agree with Jon.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

On Jun 25, 9:01 am, Niels Ull <[e-mail]:

Java has some other advantages:
1) It's had many years to get established in a lot of places which
won't want to change any time soon

In addition, the platform support for Java is much larger - you won't see
Mono running on mainframes anytime soon.

That's true.

<snip>

3) Eclipse :)

Having a free full-featured IDE is definitely a great boost (although I personally
prefer IntelliJ Idea for Java development).

I haven't used Idea much, but I've certainly heard great things about
it. These days of course, there *is* a reasonably fully-featured free
IDE for C#: Visual C# Express. Unfortunately, it's not *properly*
fully-featured in my view - no unit testing etc.

As soon as you get into the realm of paying for IDEs, things are more
complicated. (Personally I think Visual Studio only becomes acceptable
as a modern IDE when you've got something like ReSharper installed.)

4) Java going open source will open doors in some places, and for a
long time it's been helpful to be able to debug into the standard
libraries

I'm not sure how much open sourcing will really change. "In some places"
of course, but frankly I don't think most people care all that much as long
as it's free.

I think the main difference is that some OS distributions which will
only accept open source code will be able to bundle Java now. How
significant that will be remains to be seen, of course.

Oh to be able to see the real code for the .NET libraries though...
(Yes, there's Reflector, but that's not a decent substitute really.)

Jon

[Christof Nordiek]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comschrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:MP*********************@msnews.microsoft.com. ..

Java has some other advantages:

<snip>

3) Eclipse :)

There is a C#-plugin for Eclipse also. Not sure haow well it works though
:-)

Christof

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

On Jun 25, 9:33 am, "Christof Nordiek" <[e-mail]:

<snip>

3) Eclipse :)

There is a C#-plugin for Eclipse also. Not sure haow well it works though
:-)

It was *awful* last time I looked. If Eclipse had C# tooling which was
as good as the Java tooling, I'd have been using it for ages :)

Jon

[Tom Spink]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

On Jun 25, 9:01 am, Niels Ull <[e-mail]:

Java has some other advantages:
1) It's had many years to get established in a lot of places which
won't want to change any time soon

In addition, the platform support for Java is much larger - you won't see
Mono running on mainframes anytime soon.

That's true.

<snip>

3) Eclipse :)

Having a free full-featured IDE is definitely a great boost (although I
personally prefer IntelliJ Idea for Java development).

I haven't used Idea much, but I've certainly heard great things about
it. These days of course, there *is* a reasonably fully-featured free
IDE for C#: Visual C# Express. Unfortunately, it's not *properly*
fully-featured in my view - no unit testing etc.

As soon as you get into the realm of paying for IDEs, things are more
complicated. (Personally I think Visual Studio only becomes acceptable
as a modern IDE when you've got something like ReSharper installed.)

4) Java going open source will open doors in some places, and for a
long time it's been helpful to be able to debug into the standard
libraries

I'm not sure how much open sourcing will really change. "In some places"
of course, but frankly I don't think most people care all that much as
long as it's free.

I think the main difference is that some OS distributions which will
only accept open source code will be able to bundle Java now. How
significant that will be remains to be seen, of course.

Oh to be able to see the real code for the .NET libraries though...
(Yes, there's Reflector, but that's not a decent substitute really.)

Jon

Hi Jon,

I haven't used Idea much, but I've certainly heard great things about
it. These days of course, there *is* a reasonably fully-featured free
IDE for C#: Visual C# Express. Unfortunately, it's not *properly*
fully-featured in my view - no unit testing etc.

Also, it doesn't run on Linux.

--
Tom Spink
University of Edinburgh

[Ebbe Kristensen]

Alberto Poblacion wrote:

There is the .NET Micro Framework:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/bb267253.aspx

Interesting. Thanks for that link.

Ebbe

[DeveloperX]

On 25 Jun, 09:57, Tom Spink <[e-mail]:

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

On Jun 25, 9:01 am, Niels Ull <[e-mail]:

Java has some other advantages:
1) It's had many years to get established in a lot of places which
won't want to change any time soon

In addition, the platform support for Java is much larger - you won't see
Mono running on mainframes anytime soon.

That's true.

<snip>

3) Eclipse :)

Having a free full-featured IDE is definitely a great boost (although I
personally prefer IntelliJ Idea for Java development).

I haven't used Idea much, but I've certainly heard great things about
it. These days of course, there *is* a reasonably fully-featured free
IDE for C#: Visual C# Express. Unfortunately, it's not *properly*
fully-featured in my view - no unit testing etc.

As soon as you get into the realm of paying for IDEs, things are more
complicated. (Personally I think Visual Studio only becomes acceptable
as a modern IDE when you've got something like ReSharper installed.)

4) Java going open source will open doors in some places, and for a
long time it's been helpful to be able to debug into the standard
libraries

I'm not sure how much open sourcing will really change. "In some places"
of course, but frankly I don't think most people care all that much as
long as it's free.

I think the main difference is that some OS distributions which will
only accept open source code will be able to bundle Java now. How
significant that will be remains to be seen, of course.

Oh to be able to see the real code for the .NET libraries though...
(Yes, there's Reflector, but that's not a decent substitute really.)

Jon

Hi Jon,

I haven't used Idea much, but I've certainly heard great things about
it. These days of course, there *is* a reasonably fully-featured free
IDE for C#: Visual C# Express. Unfortunately, it's not *properly*
fully-featured in my view - no unit testing etc.

Also, it doesn't run on Linux.

--
Tom Spink
University of Edinburgh- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's also SharpDevelop at http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/

I've never used it, but the feature list looks impressive, here's a
comparison against Express:

http://community.sharpdevelop.net/bl...omparison.aspx

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

cat_dog_ass wrote:

...Microsoft ports the .NET framework to other operating systems? Will
the only advantage that Java has over .NET be lost?

It will not happen.

MS is not particular interested in it.

The other big commercial vendors are is not particular interested in it.

It is all about money.

Mono is a very interesting project, but the market impact of it are
close to zero.

I've been a Java programmer and will be shifting to .NET soon. Is this
a wise choice? Is the learning curve for C# a lot flatter than Java?

C# is a bit larger language than Java, so more to learn, but if you
known Java then C# will be easy to learn.

Half joke: sometimes the most work in converting code from Java to C# is
to move the start curly brackets and change casing of method names.

Arne

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Christof Nordiek wrote:

There is a C#-plugin for Eclipse also. Not sure haow well it works though

I know about 2:

http://www.improve-technologies.com/alpha/esharp/
http://black-sun.sourceforge.net/releases.html

I find both of them useless.

If anyone know of a better plugin, then please tell us.

Arne