VS2005 - 64bit - processor

[John J. Hughes II]

All,

General question. I am working on upgrading my system from a 3.2GHz P4 to
something better.

1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem with VS?

2) Is the Xeon or Core 2 Duo processor group better.

Regards,
John

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello John,

JHGeneral question. I am working on upgrading my system from a
JH3.2GHz P4 to something better.

Core Quadro? :)

JH1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem
JHwith VS?

Not massive, you only need the 64bit version of .NET
but I see the problem not in VS but in these all CTP and betas version that
around us, like WPF/Orcas/LINQ and etc
besides all other development stuff, that is not completly 64 bit ready

---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[John J. Hughes II]

Thanks for the response Michael,

"Michael Nemtsev" <ne*****@msn.comwrote in message
news:17***************************@msnews.microsof t.com...

Hello John,

JHGeneral question. I am working on upgrading my system from a
JH3.2GHz P4 to something better.

Core Quadro? :)

DROOL!!!

JH1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem
JHwith VS?

Not massive, you only need the 64bit version of .NET
but I see the problem not in VS but in these all CTP and betas version
that around us, like WPF/Orcas/LINQ and etc
besides all other development stuff, that is not completly 64 bit ready

Did not think about that, was more worried about the debugging the current
application. If I recall the vertural PC runs 32 bit under 64 bit which
would allow me to do testing and other odd things when needed, do you think?

---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do
not cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello John,

JHDid not think about that, was more worried about the debugging the
JHcurrent application. If I recall the vertural PC runs 32 bit under
JH64 bit which would allow me to do testing and other odd things when
JHneeded, do you think?

Yep, that's exactly the solution that I used for a half of year, using AMD
FX 64bit,
but the fact that there are short of everyday's tools for 64bit platform
and overwhelming number of apps need to be run under VPC fed me up completly
and I switched to the 32 bit platform

We use 64bit platforms in some of server stations but developer's once are
32bit

---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[Chris Mullins]

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail]

>
1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem with
VS?

For the most part, things work just fine. There are some quirks with things
now and then, but we build shrinkwrap software for x86, x64, and IA64, so we
run into more quirks than most. In general, you'll be fine.

2) Is the Xeon or Core 2 Duo processor group better.

Well, the Core2 stuff is certainly cheaper. The AMD stuff is also excellent.

I'm running a dual-core Athlon box with 4GB of memory and WinXP64. New from
Dell about a month ago, that box was about $800. It's been great.

--
Chris Mullins, MCSD.NET, MCPD:Enterprise
http://www.coversant.net/blogs/cmullins

[Andrew Robinson]

I ran for a few weeks without issue. VS2005, SQL2005 and lots of ASP.NET (in
general development work) but it was a single issue that caused me to return
to 32 bit XP: the lack of a driver for my 2 year old Dell Laser Printer.

-A

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail] in message
news:Oo**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

All,

General question. I am working on upgrading my system from a 3.2GHz P4
to something better.

1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem with
VS?

2) Is the Xeon or Core 2 Duo processor group better.

Regards,
John

[John J. Hughes II]

Michael,

Thanks again... I was hoping to only run the VPC for testing which is what I
do now.

Guess I need to make a detailed list of what has a 64 bit version...

Excluding drivers, did general 32 bit program run without issue on 64 bit.
I guess my largest collection of programs would be Office 2003.

Regards,
John

"Michael Nemtsev" <ne*****@msn.comwrote in message
news:17***************************@msnews.microsof t.com...

Hello John,

JHDid not think about that, was more worried about the debugging the
JHcurrent application. If I recall the vertural PC runs 32 bit under
JH64 bit which would allow me to do testing and other odd things when
JHneeded, do you think?

Yep, that's exactly the solution that I used for a half of year, using AMD
FX 64bit,
but the fact that there are short of everyday's tools for 64bit platform
and overwhelming number of apps need to be run under VPC fed me up
completly and I switched to the 32 bit platform

We use 64bit platforms in some of server stations but developer's once are
32bit

---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do
not cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[John J. Hughes II]

Thanks Chris, will keep it in mind.

"Chris Mullins" <cm******@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail]

>>
1) Well switching to Windows XP Pro 64 bit cause me massive problem with
VS?

For the most part, things work just fine. There are some quirks with
things now and then, but we build shrinkwrap software for x86, x64, and
IA64, so we run into more quirks than most. In general, you'll be fine.

>2) Is the Xeon or Core 2 Duo processor group better.

Well, the Core2 stuff is certainly cheaper. The AMD stuff is also
excellent.

I'm running a dual-core Athlon box with 4GB of memory and WinXP64. New
from Dell about a month ago, that box was about $800. It's been great.

--
Chris Mullins, MCSD.NET, MCPD:Enterprise
http://www.coversant.net/blogs/cmullins

[Michael Nemtsev]

Hello John,

JHExcluding drivers, did general 32 bit program run without issue on
JH64 bit. I guess my largest collection of programs would be Office
JH2003.

it should run well in WOW host, there are number of 32bit apps that works
well in 64bit env, but in last year I've stumbled over such soft as Cisco
VPN, RealPlayer, DiamondTool that didnt work at all. AFAIK now they do support
64bit
---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail] in message
news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| Michael,
|
| Thanks again... I was hoping to only run the VPC for testing which is what
I
| do now.
|
| Guess I need to make a detailed list of what has a 64 bit version...
|
| Excluding drivers, did general 32 bit program run without issue on 64 bit.
| I guess my largest collection of programs would be Office 2003.
|

32 bit programs run just fine, that is, they run as they would on a 32 bit
OS, the only issue is with IA64 processors, here 32 bit apps. take a
somewhat larger performance hit because of the WOM64 X86 emulator, X64 CPU's
(AMD-64 and Intel EM64T)take a much smaller hit when runing 32 bit code on
X64, and this only when transitioning into kernel code.
Note that all Office applications (even 2007) are 32 bit, same for VS2005.
That means that they run under WOM64, so you won't take any advantage
running them on 64 bit. Only a set of utilities are available in a 32 and 64
bit version, that is, tools from the Framework directory is available as
both 32 and 64 bit.
The only advantage you have running a 64 bit OS, is that you can test the 64
bit applications you build on the same system, but you don't need a 64 bit
OS to build 64 applications. A serious drawback (for me at least) is the
lack of mixed mode debugging in VS2005 for 64 bit apps.
Also keep in mind that 64 bit application have a larger memory footprint,
don't be suprised to see them take up to 2X the workingset of the same 32
bit app, so be prepared to invest in RAM memory (I would suggest nothing
less than 2GB - preferably 4GB).
Willy.

[John J. Hughes II]

Michael,

Thanks again... use the Cisco VNC & VPN sometimes but not the rest.

Regards,
John

"Michael Nemtsev" <ne*****@msn.comwrote in message
news:17***************************@msnews.microsof t.com...

Hello John,

JHExcluding drivers, did general 32 bit program run without issue on
JH64 bit. I guess my largest collection of programs would be Office
JH2003.

it should run well in WOW host, there are number of 32bit apps that works
well in 64bit env, but in last year I've stumbled over such soft as Cisco
VPN, RealPlayer, DiamondTool that didnt work at all. AFAIK now they do
support 64bit
---
WBR,
Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP] :: blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do
not cease to be insipid." (c) Friedrich Nietzsche

[John J. Hughes II]

Willy,

I was expecting the memory hit and was planning on 4 Gigs, I am having
enough problems with 2 Gigs on the current system. For some reason by
lunch I am accessing a zillion windows for different reasons and now running
VPC and a couple remote dest tops for testing is killing me.

VS2005 will still run 32bit, I was thinking it was CLR so would auto switch
to 64 bit, real bummer.

What do you mean by "Mixed mode debugging". If I build a application will
not the debugger debug it?

Regards,
John

"Willy Denoyette [MVP]" <wi*************@telenet.bewrote in message
news:eq**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>
"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail] in message
news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
| Michael,
|
| Thanks again... I was hoping to only run the VPC for testing which is
what
I
| do now.
|
| Guess I need to make a detailed list of what has a 64 bit version...
|
| Excluding drivers, did general 32 bit program run without issue on 64
bit.
| I guess my largest collection of programs would be Office 2003.
|

32 bit programs run just fine, that is, they run as they would on a 32 bit
OS, the only issue is with IA64 processors, here 32 bit apps. take a
somewhat larger performance hit because of the WOM64 X86 emulator, X64
CPU's
(AMD-64 and Intel EM64T)take a much smaller hit when runing 32 bit code on
X64, and this only when transitioning into kernel code.
Note that all Office applications (even 2007) are 32 bit, same for VS2005.
That means that they run under WOM64, so you won't take any advantage
running them on 64 bit. Only a set of utilities are available in a 32 and
64
bit version, that is, tools from the Framework directory is available as
both 32 and 64 bit.
The only advantage you have running a 64 bit OS, is that you can test the
64
bit applications you build on the same system, but you don't need a 64 bit
OS to build 64 applications. A serious drawback (for me at least) is the
lack of mixed mode debugging in VS2005 for 64 bit apps.
Also keep in mind that 64 bit application have a larger memory footprint,
don't be suprised to see them take up to 2X the workingset of the same 32
bit app, so be prepared to invest in RAM memory (I would suggest nothing
less than 2GB - preferably 4GB).
Willy.

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail] in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| Willy,
|
| I was expecting the memory hit and was planning on 4 Gigs, I am having
| enough problems with 2 Gigs on the current system. For some reason by
| lunch I am accessing a zillion windows for different reasons and now
running
| VPC and a couple remote dest tops for testing is killing me.
|
| VS2005 will still run 32bit, I was thinking it was CLR so would auto
switch
| to 64 bit, real bummer.
|

| What do you mean by "Mixed mode debugging". If I build a application will
| not the debugger debug it?
|

John,

VS is written in C++ native code 32 bit, some of the designers are managed
code, but as they are running inside VS they run as 32 bit too (well they
are JIT compiled to X86).
Mixed mode debugging is when you need to debug native code called from
managed code. VS2005 cannot handle this when debugging 64bit applications.
Only option for now is to use the Windows Debugging Tools like windbg and
cdb.
Willy.

[John J. Hughes II]

Willy,

Thanks again... the "got you" list is getting longer it seems. Oh well
went though the same mess with 16/32, all works itself out in the end :)

Regards,
John

"Willy Denoyette [MVP]" <wi*************@telenet.bewrote in message
news:eV**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>

"John J. Hughes II" <[e-mail] in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
| Willy,
|
| I was expecting the memory hit and was planning on 4 Gigs, I am having
| enough problems with 2 Gigs on the current system. For some reason by
| lunch I am accessing a zillion windows for different reasons and now
running
| VPC and a couple remote dest tops for testing is killing me.
|
| VS2005 will still run 32bit, I was thinking it was CLR so would auto
switch
| to 64 bit, real bummer.
|

| What do you mean by "Mixed mode debugging". If I build a application
will
| not the debugger debug it?
|

John,

VS is written in C++ native code 32 bit, some of the designers are managed
code, but as they are running inside VS they run as 32 bit too (well they
are JIT compiled to X86).
Mixed mode debugging is when you need to debug native code called from
managed code. VS2005 cannot handle this when debugging 64bit applications.
Only option for now is to use the Windows Debugging Tools like windbg and
cdb.
Willy.