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.NET application without .NET Framework

Hello,

Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
Installed?

Bye
Rajiv

Feb 6 '06 #1
24 14074
Isn't that like asking for diet coke?

If its a .NET app, it needs the .NET framework. But possibly you want
to package the .NET framework installer into your application
installer?

I don't know what the legal issues are, but you can download the
'redistributable' for the .NET framework from M$ website.
I guess you could boot strap it or something. But as I said, check out
the legal issues first.

Feb 6 '06 #2
"Rajiv" <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
Hello,

Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
Installed?


No.

Michael
Feb 6 '06 #3
"Rajiv" <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
Hello,

Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
Installed?


Surely you're kidding right?

Michael
Feb 6 '06 #4
You're responses seem a little 'negative' to me.
Perhaps Rajiv has either miscommunicated his question, OR he is simply
not very experienced with the .NET framework.
Either way, I think we should give him a chance to re-explain.

Go ahead Rajiv.

Feb 6 '06 #5
How can u run .net application without .net framework
it can be like that your application installer itself installs
..netframework
"Rajiv" <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
Hello,

Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
Installed?

Bye
Rajiv

Feb 6 '06 #6
hi,

well, i do understand what u guys are trying to say? and even i think
that it is not possible to run a .net application without its
framework.. but when i spoke to some more experienced programmers
according to them it is possible... it seems that some dll's have to be
deloyed along with the application to run without the framework... may
be its not true?? i am yet to figure out a way... but still the
question lies in my mind.. and i am trying to explore the possibility
that if we had to do it without the .net framework what r the
options???

bye
Rajiv

Feb 6 '06 #7
In keeping with Steven's answer, we need to know whether your question
is:

"...does not required the .NET Framework to be installed beforehand."

in which case you can create a Setup project for your solution from the
Setup/Deployment Projects group. Default installations of Visual Studio
2003 cannot install the .NET framework along with your application, but
apparently you can download an add-on bootstrap plugin that will allow
you to include a .NET bootstrap in your setup.exe. I've never used it
myself, but here is the link to the (free) bootstrap plugin for Visual
Studio:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/do.../bootstrapper/

On the other hand, if your question is:

"...does not required the .NET Framework to be installed ever."

then the answer is no. All .NET programs require the Framework in order
to run. It is not possible to run a .NET program without the .NET
Framework.

Feb 6 '06 #8
There are no options. A .NET program will not run without the Framework
installed. Those "more experienced programmers" are wrong.

Apparently, it is possible to have the setup.exe that installs your
application (if you choose to install that way) install the Framework
first. I've never done it myself, but there is a downloadable tool for
this, so I assume that it's possible. See my other reply for details.

Feb 6 '06 #9
thanks Mr. Wood i got your idea of installing the framework at setup.

Feb 6 '06 #10
Rajiv <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote:
Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
Installed?


See http://www.pobox.com/~skeet/csharp/f...ework.required

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Feb 6 '06 #11
Well, I was wrong, then. It is possible to run "without the Framework
installed."

Jon, you might want to add to your list of disadvantages that if
Microsoft releases any patches to the Framework (which they have done),
then your "bundled application" won't benefit from those patches (I
assume). Do I assume correctly?

Feb 6 '06 #12
Hi,

Thanks Jon...

I guess now we are going in the right direction.. meanwhile i did some
googling and found some applications which help to achieve the same...
have a look at this link....

http://thinstall.com/solutions/net_virtual.php

Rajiv

Feb 6 '06 #13
Actually, sorry to be the one to correct the misinformation: yes it is
possible to create a .NET application and run it on a system without
the framework.

There is a copy protection program that does this. What it does to my
understanding is use a compiled form of the framework in native code so
the framework isn't required.

They charge about $10,000 for it so that it is unlikely to be a
realistic solution but it is possible. I'm not sure the name of it but
some commercial software has used it.
Curtis
http://www.ghostclip.com
The Premier Help System For Developers

Feb 6 '06 #14
Rajiv <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote:
I guess now we are going in the right direction..
Not really. Although I acknowledge that it's possible, I'd personally
recommend against it. I think it's much, much better to run against the
normal framework.
meanwhile i did some
googling and found some applications which help to achieve the same...
have a look at this link....

http://thinstall.com/solutions/net_virtual.php


Yes, Thinstall is one of the options I mention in the section I
referred to earlier.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Feb 6 '06 #15
Bruce Wood <br*******@canada.com> wrote:
Well, I was wrong, then. It is possible to run "without the Framework
installed."

Jon, you might want to add to your list of disadvantages that if
Microsoft releases any patches to the Framework (which they have done),
then your "bundled application" won't benefit from those patches (I
assume). Do I assume correctly?


I believe so. I'll try to remember to make a note of it...

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Feb 6 '06 #16

Don't think so Rajiv, unless you have the ability to compile a C++ app into
"raw" dll's and exe's but that wouldn't be a .NET application then. Does VS
..NET give this option for C++ apps? Ones that don't have .NET in mind
obviously but more traditional C++ (COM?) methodolgy perhaps...

- SpotNet

"Rajiv" <ra*********@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
: Hello,
:
: Can some one guide me on how do i make a .NET application which upon
: installing on the target system doesnot require a .NET Framework
: Installed?
:
: Bye
: Rajiv
:
Feb 6 '06 #17
"Steven Nagy" <le*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
You're responses seem a little 'negative' to me.
Perhaps Rajiv has either miscommunicated his question, OR he is simply
not very experienced with the .NET framework.
Either way, I think we should give him a chance to re-explain.

Go ahead Rajiv.


Can I make an apple pie without using apples?

Michael
Feb 6 '06 #18
"Bruce Wood" <br*******@canada.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
Well, I was wrong, then. It is possible to run "without the Framework
installed."


Hardly, these hacks just copy the relevant parts of the framework to the
user's machine. This might be a subset of the framework install but it is
still a partial install.

Michael
Feb 6 '06 #19
You can use apple-substitute, so yes.

Besides, the remainder of this thread indicates that Rajiv wasn't
entirely crazy!

Feb 6 '06 #20
"Steven Nagy" <le*********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
You can use apple-substitute, so yes.
Maybe if you're McDonalds :-)
Besides, the remainder of this thread indicates that Rajiv wasn't
entirely crazy!


Not entirely but those method still install the framework, just not the
whole thing.

Michael
Feb 6 '06 #21
Michael C <mc*****@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote:
Besides, the remainder of this thread indicates that Rajiv wasn't
entirely crazy!


Not entirely but those method still install the framework, just not the
whole thing.


They don't tend to *install* the framework - at least not in a
traditional way, where it's obvious afterwards. Thinstall effectively
runs within its own file system, I believe - so you won't find any
trace of .NET having been installed on the general system.

I still think it's generally a bad idea though...

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Feb 6 '06 #22
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
They don't tend to *install* the framework - at least not in a
traditional way, where it's obvious afterwards. Thinstall effectively
runs within its own file system, I believe - so you won't find any
trace of .NET having been installed on the general system.
I agree they don't install the framework in the way the framework is
normally installed, but an installation is just copying of files to the
users machine which may or may not include registry settings and such. If
you consider some simple apps they would just copy files to program files
and maybe some dlls to system32 but you would still call this an install.
I still think it's generally a bad idea though...


I agree.

Michael
Feb 7 '06 #23
They are at least thinking in terms of more nativeness with research
compilers like Bartok:
http://research.microsoft.com/act/

--
William Stacey [MVP]

"Michael C" <mc*****@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
| "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
| news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
| > They don't tend to *install* the framework - at least not in a
| > traditional way, where it's obvious afterwards. Thinstall effectively
| > runs within its own file system, I believe - so you won't find any
| > trace of .NET having been installed on the general system.
|
| I agree they don't install the framework in the way the framework is
| normally installed, but an installation is just copying of files to the
| users machine which may or may not include registry settings and such. If
| you consider some simple apps they would just copy files to program files
| and maybe some dlls to system32 but you would still call this an install.
|
| > I still think it's generally a bad idea though...
|
| I agree.
|
| Michael
|
|
Feb 7 '06 #24
Michael C <mc*****@NOSPAMoptushome.com.au> wrote:
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
They don't tend to *install* the framework - at least not in a
traditional way, where it's obvious afterwards. Thinstall effectively
runs within its own file system, I believe - so you won't find any
trace of .NET having been installed on the general system.


I agree they don't install the framework in the way the framework is
normally installed, but an installation is just copying of files to the
users machine which may or may not include registry settings and such. If
you consider some simple apps they would just copy files to program files
and maybe some dlls to system32 but you would still call this an install.


Sure - but I don't *think* that happens at all with Thinstall. There
may be Thinstall-specific drivers etc, but none of the .NET framework
libraries or registry keys are installed.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Feb 7 '06 #25

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