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VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden

P: n/a
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...
Dec 1 '05 #1
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56 Replies


P: n/a
Hi Rob:

I had some problems with it also at first. Now I have converted two
major apps from VS.2003 and it seems to be fine for me.

Hang in there - it will get better!

Fred
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Dec 1 '05 #2

P: n/a
Perhaps you should try to buy orginal version :)
PK

Dec 1 '05 #3

P: n/a
Perhaps you should try to by orginal version :)

Dec 1 '05 #4

P: n/a
Rob:
Tell us what you really think. The last thing we want here are people
holding back their opinion...

I will admit that I too run into frustrating situations. I am using an EAP
of Resharper 2.0 though, so who knows which is to blame .

All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some
issues. Keep in mind that a service pack will be released though, not right
away, but soon.

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component
for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the
toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...

Dec 1 '05 #5

P: n/a
> VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...
That's funny, Rob. I've been using it since beta 1, which *was* bug-ridden.
I am now using the RTM (since it was released a couple of months ago), in
which I've found no bugs whatsover, just waiting for the Team System final
version to come out. Works a heck of a lot better than VS.Net 2003, does a
lot more, and I wouldn't go back for love or money. I still have to from
time to time, to work on "legacy" 1.1 apps. I've written half a dozen
different applications with it, one of which is already in production and
working perfectly for about a month now. It's a Windows service that uses
the new FtpWebRequest and FtpWebResponse, the new HttpWebRequest and
HttpWebResponse, the new XSL and XML classes, and has a web-based
log-viewing application associated with it. It runs continuously, with 2
different threads performing operations at 5-minute and 1-hour intervals, 24
hours a day. It uses the System.Net.SmtpClient class to send email reports
out at regular intervals, and the new Configuration classes to leverage the
App.Config for settings and email addresses.

One of the other apps I wrote, which was last built using the beta 2
release, was a Managed Direct3D terrain and environment simulator for small
aircraft, which uses a SQL Server database, various custom classes for
storing and parsing Geographical data on the fly, and Indigo services to
obtain real-time flight and GPS data. It was a prototype demonstrated at the
NASA SATS demo in Danville, Virginia in May, and has been touring the
country at various air shows for the past 5 or so months. I haven't even had
to touch it since May.

I guess I'm just lucky.

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component
for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the
toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...

Dec 1 '05 #6

P: n/a
Rob,

You are not the only one that has issues. However, you can go to the
Product Feedback center and add weight to shared issues, or register new
issues of your own. Check out:

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/produc...k/default.aspx

Hope this helps.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard.caspershouse.com

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component
for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the
toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...

Dec 1 '05 #7

P: n/a
> All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some
issues. Keep in mind that a service pack will be released though, not
right away, but soon.


Hate to burst your bubble here, but they still haven't released a service
pack for VS.NET 2003 (after at least 2 years), I don't know what makes us
think they'll release a service pack for 2005 anytime sooner than that,
especially considering prior to VS.NET release, Service Packs were a regular
part of life and something we could count on (or should I say "had to count
on" and weren't let down).

In anycase, I, too, have stopped using VS 2005 shortly after downloading it
from MSDN subscribers because, in trying to create simple WinForms apps, the
IDE kept crashing and amazingly, the only time in 4 years that I've ever
experienced a kernel exception of some time in Windows XP Pro (I'm using
SP2), was twice while doing something in the VS 2005 IDE (within hours after
installing it and rebooting, of course). I haven't touched the IDE since
(and haven't experienced WinXP Pro crashing since (or before, either)) and
prefer to remain in 2003 since I perceive it to be more stable, as well.
I'm dissapointed. But once I set up a more suitable virtual machine for it
I'll venture back into 2005 development, just not on my primary development
box.

Thanks,
Shawn
Dec 1 '05 #8

P: n/a
I uninstalled resharper, that thing don't play well with studio at all. I'll
qualify that by saying it presented problems when the project was very large
with lots of post build copying. VS seemed to be unstable a lot but i knew
it must be resharper because VS was working well on the large project before
resharper. After 2 months, i'd had enough.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [MVP ASP.NET]

[Shameless Author plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now Available @ www.lulu.com/owc
Forth-coming VSTO.NET - Wrox/Wiley 2006
-------------------------------------------------------

"Karl Seguin" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME net>
wrote in message news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Rob:
Tell us what you really think. The last thing we want here are people
holding back their opinion...

I will admit that I too run into frustrating situations. I am using an EAP
of Resharper 2.0 though, so who knows which is to blame .

All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some
issues. Keep in mind that a service pack will be released though, not right away, but soon.

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do. For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component
for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the
toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Dec 1 '05 #9

P: n/a
My bubble isn't burst. Microsoft has made it clear what the service path
for 2005 is going to be, namely a service pack for both 2003 and 2005 in the
first half of 2006 - that's "soonish" in my book.
http://blogs.msdn.com/scottwil/

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Shawn B." <le****@html.com> wrote in message
news:OA*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some
issues. Keep in mind that a service pack will be released though, not
right away, but soon.


Hate to burst your bubble here, but they still haven't released a service
pack for VS.NET 2003 (after at least 2 years), I don't know what makes us
think they'll release a service pack for 2005 anytime sooner than that,
especially considering prior to VS.NET release, Service Packs were a
regular part of life and something we could count on (or should I say "had
to count on" and weren't let down).

In anycase, I, too, have stopped using VS 2005 shortly after downloading
it from MSDN subscribers because, in trying to create simple WinForms
apps, the IDE kept crashing and amazingly, the only time in 4 years that
I've ever experienced a kernel exception of some time in Windows XP Pro
(I'm using SP2), was twice while doing something in the VS 2005 IDE
(within hours after installing it and rebooting, of course). I haven't
touched the IDE since (and haven't experienced WinXP Pro crashing since
(or before, either)) and prefer to remain in 2003 since I perceive it to
be more stable, as well. I'm dissapointed. But once I set up a more
suitable virtual machine for it I'll venture back into 2005 development,
just not on my primary development box.

Thanks,
Shawn

Dec 1 '05 #10

P: n/a
Re:
<<a service pack will be released though, not right away, but soon>>

Is this just your wishful thinking, or do you have some "inside" information
on this? If the latter, can you elaborate?

Thanks!

Jeff


"Karl Seguin" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME net>
wrote in message news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Rob:
Tell us what you really think. The last thing we want here are people
holding back their opinion...

I will admit that I too run into frustrating situations. I am using an EAP
of Resharper 2.0 though, so who knows which is to blame .

All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some
issues. Keep in mind that a service pack will be released though, not
right away, but soon.

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot
do. For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter
component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to
the toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way,
but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Dec 1 '05 #11

P: n/a
Kevin:
I don't think it's as bad as Rob says for most people, and Idon't think it's
as good as what you say in a lot of cases. I get errors reported @ compile
time that won't go away until I shut down and reopen vs.net.

System.Net.Mail is great and all, but some of the key classes are read-only,
making them very...inconvinient. I believe it's MailAddress.... That's
besides the point anyways, as the IDE, the language and the framework
features are separate thing. I think it's clear Rob's having problems with
the IDE. Honestly, I can't say that the VS.Net 2005 IDE has brought a lot
to the table (Team System is different) other than the ability to host the
other 2 (language and framework). Refactoring and all that is nice, but
it's been something I've supplemented with addons a long time ago...

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...


That's funny, Rob. I've been using it since beta 1, which *was*
bug-ridden. I am now using the RTM (since it was released a couple of
months ago), in which I've found no bugs whatsover, just waiting for the
Team System final version to come out. Works a heck of a lot better than
VS.Net 2003, does a lot more, and I wouldn't go back for love or money. I
still have to from time to time, to work on "legacy" 1.1 apps. I've
written half a dozen different applications with it, one of which is
already in production and working perfectly for about a month now. It's a
Windows service that uses the new FtpWebRequest and FtpWebResponse, the
new HttpWebRequest and HttpWebResponse, the new XSL and XML classes, and
has a web-based log-viewing application associated with it. It runs
continuously, with 2 different threads performing operations at 5-minute
and 1-hour intervals, 24 hours a day. It uses the System.Net.SmtpClient
class to send email reports out at regular intervals, and the new
Configuration classes to leverage the App.Config for settings and email
addresses.

One of the other apps I wrote, which was last built using the beta 2
release, was a Managed Direct3D terrain and environment simulator for
small aircraft, which uses a SQL Server database, various custom classes
for storing and parsing Geographical data on the fly, and Indigo services
to obtain real-time flight and GPS data. It was a prototype demonstrated
at the NASA SATS demo in Danville, Virginia in May, and has been touring
the country at various air shows for the past 5 or so months. I haven't
even had to touch it since May.

I guess I'm just lucky.

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot
do. For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter
component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to
the toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way,
but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so
riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Dec 1 '05 #12

P: n/a
re:
Is this just your wishful thinking, or do you have some "inside" information on this? If the
latter, can you elaborate?
See :

http://blogs.msdn.com/scottwil/

Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET.FAQ : http://asp.net.do/faq/
ASPNETFAQ.COM : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
======================================

"Jeff" <Je**@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:OW*************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl... Re:
<<a service pack will be released though, not right away, but soon>>

Is this just your wishful thinking, or do you have some "inside" information on this? If the
latter, can you elaborate?

Thanks!

Jeff


"Karl Seguin" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME net> wrote in message
news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Rob:
Tell us what you really think. The last thing we want here are people holding back their
opinion...

I will admit that I too run into frustrating situations. I am using an EAP of Resharper 2.0
though, so who knows which is to blame .

All in all, I think people should give it a try, there certainly are some issues. Keep in mind
that a service pack will be released though, not right away, but soon.

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others feel the same, I am
so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so much time trying to
make it simply that when you try to do something useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do. For example, Go into
component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed,
so you add it to the toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but build anytihng decent
and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself the express additons
the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...



Dec 1 '05 #13

P: n/a
Being perfectly honest here, The only reason I went the Microsoft way
Years Ago!! was NOT because they had the best product, but because they
dictate the market, I remember being perfectly happy with Borland's Turbo
C++, its compiler blew away Microsoft's ( MSC5.0 ), it produced much faster
code. I must admit I'm new to C#, as most of my apps are written in VC++,
and I tried to rewrite one of HEAVILY mutli threaded VC++ my applications in
C#, there is no comparison in speed, .

My frustrations lie with VS2005 webform/web applications creation using c#,
I did NOT participate in the beta, I am also not really interested in using
their wonderful NEW plug and play controls, although I'm sure to many they
are useful. I am frustrated at the lack of support that exists for
DataAdapter controls.. i.e The SQLDataAdapter is no longer available by
default in the toolbox, when you add it in and then try to make use of it
my application no longer works, However if you do the same on a winform
then everything works fine, I'm only referring to the webforms and c#
within webforms. I'm referring to the larger select statement, that
VS2005 now decides that it is better to place within a .resx file which then
it doesn't seem to have recognition of at runtime, Im talking about why
should I need to lookup docks about RESGEN, unless if thats what I wish to
do.

I also don't understand why when vs2005 creates a local resouce file. resx
it does not nest it in with the corrsponding webform.., especially when
they have gone to the trouble of creating abutton for this specific use...

I also find that a lot of the lingo at Microsoft Visual Studio site, says or
use to say, "to Be Added", its a joke these are obvious areas that
Microsofts team have yet to fill in, anyway another story there..

In short I honestly at this point am sorry that I have upgraded to vs2005,
when I originally upgraded from VS6 to Vs2002 I was happy for the most part
with the exception of debug symbols no longer being supported in the same
fashion they were in vc6 , but I overcame that...

Microsoft states, that the new VS2005 should save you tons of development
time, up to this point it has just wasted days of mine,

I also don't understand why Mr Gates, Aka Software Architect, doesn't pay
someone from Microsoft to monitor these newsgroups and then help with
answering some of these questions posted, a lot of the questions posted
within this group and other microsoft groups go unanswered.

thanks,
P.S. as per updates/visual studio service packs, I have never been around
to see one.. I think the closest I've seen to an update was when they
released VS2003 and offered current VS2002 owners a free upgrade.
Dec 1 '05 #14

P: n/a
Hi,

guess all I can say here is:, I sure didn't have to push so hard...

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"
.. - Fudd's First Law of Opposition

Dec 1 '05 #15

P: n/a
> My bubble isn't burst. Microsoft has made it clear what the service path
for 2005 is going to be, namely a service pack for both 2003 and 2005 in
the first half of 2006 - that's "soonish" in my book.
http://blogs.msdn.com/scottwil/


Hmm... interesting. That's good news, for VS 2005 users. But, come one, 3
years after VS.NET 2003? That's not soonish by any stretch of the
imagination. Fortunate for me, I've never experienced a defect in 2003 that
is worthy of mention (come to think of it, can't think of any at all, and I
use it 10 hours a day since the day it released).

My point? Regarding VS 2005, and my earlier remarks, I stand corrected.
There is hope after all for VS 2005 users. Oh, and, since people ask, I
have never installed a beta/rc of 2005 anywhere except in a virtual machine.
So that wouldn't be the cause for the instabilities on my main box (which
has been the most stable box I've ever used).
Thanks,
Shawn
Dec 1 '05 #16

P: n/a
> P.S. as per updates/visual studio service packs, I have never been
around to see one.. I think the closest I've seen to an update was when
they released VS2003 and offered current VS2002 owners a free upgrade.


It seems there is indeed a roadmap for service packs. Its amazing, VS.NET
2003 gets SP1 3 years after it released, but VS 2005 will get it about 6
months or so after released. I've never had a problem with 2003, I would
consider it a bona-fide release. I consider 2005 to be a beta 3 release.
For all the hype and anticipation that 2005 created (both abroad and within
me), I am most dissappointed because the things I want to do with it produce
the only kernel dumps on my WinXP Pro (SP2) box that I've ever seen when
using WinXP (been using for 4 years). And for that, I'm only using WinForms
and doing what I do everyday on 2003 without problems. Haven't used ASP.NET
yet (which incidentally, is what I do for a living but I tend to do other
types of projects at home).

Anyway, overall, I (not to contradict myself) like the changes in 2.0 and
2005 IDE is generally more productive when it works (avoid the WinForms
designer and do it by hand). For many people, mostly MVP's and MS employees
and other MS book author types, everything works fine. So perhaps its just
our particular setups that are causing the problem. Of course, there is
absolutely no other piece of software (installed 29gigs for over 14 months)
and in the past 4 years has ever caused my WinXP to crash. Not even a bad
Canon driver caused a crash, just annoyance. From now on, my 2005
development will be contained within a VMWare guest. That way my main dev
box won't be effected. I take it very personally when it starts undermining
my system stability and causes me to be paranoid about whether things will
work or whether other unknown problems will ocurr.
Thanks,
Shawn
Dec 1 '05 #17

P: n/a
JDP
..... with so few webHosts supporting 2.0, I wish to thank Rob for posting here,
it has made my decision to stay with 03 easier.

I've grown tired of bio hacks, reg hacks and similar just to make IDE's work as
they should.

I really don't have the energy or time to fuss with giving MS feedback in their
blog, it's not my responsibility.

Perhaps if they offered a $10K prize for each valid bug, then groups of
youngsters could earn some pocket change...

MS can have my many $'s after the SP is released, and I hear posts like, "Hot
Darn, VS SP1x is Great!"

Just my "2 cents"

..... I'm listening.... chirp, squeek (porch swing needs grease), chirp.....

JeffP....
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...

Dec 1 '05 #18

P: n/a
re:
.... with so few webHosts supporting 2.0
You mean the hosters listed here are not enough for you ?

http://www.asp.net/Hosters/

Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET.FAQ : http://asp.net.do/faq/
ASPNETFAQ.COM : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
======================================

"JDP@Work" <JP*********@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:%2******************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... .... with so few webHosts supporting 2.0, I wish to thank Rob for posting here,
it has made my decision to stay with 03 easier.

I've grown tired of bio hacks, reg hacks and similar just to make IDE's work as
they should.

I really don't have the energy or time to fuss with giving MS feedback in their
blog, it's not my responsibility.

Perhaps if they offered a $10K prize for each valid bug, then groups of
youngsters could earn some pocket change...

MS can have my many $'s after the SP is released, and I hear posts like, "Hot
Darn, VS SP1x is Great!"

Just my "2 cents"

.... I'm listening.... chirp, squeek (porch swing needs grease), chirp.....

JeffP....
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Dec 1 '05 #19

P: n/a
> I remember being perfectly happy with Borland's Turbo
C++, its compiler blew away Microsoft's ( MSC5.0 ), DID NOT! That thing was not ready for prime time at all. Bugs bugs bugs all
over the place. I remember writing graphics applications and having to
reboot constantly. The same set of bugs had been fixed long long ago in
early versions of VS. I'm no fan of borland's turbo C++.

Wasn't that the compiler that used pascal underneath c++? (can't remember
which one did that but i'm pretty sure it was the culprit)

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [MVP ASP.NET]

[Shameless Author plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now Available @ www.lulu.com/owc
Forth-coming VSTO.NET - Wrox/Wiley 2006
-------------------------------------------------------

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u1**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... Being perfectly honest here, The only reason I went the Microsoft way
Years Ago!! was NOT because they had the best product, but because they
dictate the market, I remember being perfectly happy with Borland's Turbo C++, its compiler blew away Microsoft's ( MSC5.0 ), it produced much faster code. I must admit I'm new to C#, as most of my apps are written in VC++,
and I tried to rewrite one of HEAVILY mutli threaded VC++ my applications in C#, there is no comparison in speed, .

My frustrations lie with VS2005 webform/web applications creation using c#, I did NOT participate in the beta, I am also not really interested in using their wonderful NEW plug and play controls, although I'm sure to many they are useful. I am frustrated at the lack of support that exists for
DataAdapter controls.. i.e The SQLDataAdapter is no longer available by
default in the toolbox, when you add it in and then try to make use of it
my application no longer works, However if you do the same on a winform
then everything works fine, I'm only referring to the webforms and c#
within webforms. I'm referring to the larger select statement, that
VS2005 now decides that it is better to place within a .resx file which then it doesn't seem to have recognition of at runtime, Im talking about why
should I need to lookup docks about RESGEN, unless if thats what I wish to
do.

I also don't understand why when vs2005 creates a local resouce file. resx
it does not nest it in with the corrsponding webform.., especially when
they have gone to the trouble of creating abutton for this specific use...

I also find that a lot of the lingo at Microsoft Visual Studio site, says or use to say, "to Be Added", its a joke these are obvious areas that
Microsofts team have yet to fill in, anyway another story there..

In short I honestly at this point am sorry that I have upgraded to vs2005,
when I originally upgraded from VS6 to Vs2002 I was happy for the most part with the exception of debug symbols no longer being supported in the same
fashion they were in vc6 , but I overcame that...

Microsoft states, that the new VS2005 should save you tons of development
time, up to this point it has just wasted days of mine,

I also don't understand why Mr Gates, Aka Software Architect, doesn't pay
someone from Microsoft to monitor these newsgroups and then help with
answering some of these questions posted, a lot of the questions posted
within this group and other microsoft groups go unanswered.

thanks,
P.S. as per updates/visual studio service packs, I have never been around to see one.. I think the closest I've seen to an update was when they
released VS2003 and offered current VS2002 owners a free upgrade.

Dec 1 '05 #20

P: n/a

Speedwise my same app use to run twice as fast when compiled with Borland's
over being compiled with MSC5.0, I have only done ddk development using MSC
so I have nothing to compare, I have never thought of Microsoft having
great products, just great marketing, as they are now once again doing with
FREE express versions, Trust Microsoft they know how to knock out the
competition... even look at msword, was the biggest piece of junk back in
the days that WordPerfect was king. now its all everyone hears about...
Or OS2, far superior to Stable XP which confuses easily and dies,
Microsoft should spend more time building better more stable products
instead of spending it trying to steal apple's ipod patent. anyway I
realise this is not the newsgroup for this topic so please forgive me, I
will refrain in future..

thanks
Dec 1 '05 #21

P: n/a
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

<snip>

Maybe you should use the free Express versions - I've not had a single
problem with either VWD and VC#! ;-)
Dec 1 '05 #22

P: n/a
Hi Karl,

There's a lot more to the IDE than meets the eye at first. I've been using
it for quite a few months, and I'm continuing to discover cool things about
it. For example, the XSL editor is extremely cool. You can actually step
through an XSL file, perform watches, etc., to debug it. This is a very big
thing, even though a lot of people don't realize it quite yet, kind of like
the reason that XHTML is very powerful, but underappreciated. But over the
next few years, XML is going to be discovered by a lot of people who haven't
yet realized its true potential. The XSD tools are also very cool. The
syntax checking and Intellisense for XML is really nice. It uses DTDs to
perform syntax checks on the fly. The JavaScript debugging tools are also
improved. Code Snippets are very cool. The Document Outline feature is very
helpful. Refactoring is excellent, and you don't need to use any third-party
add-ons to get it. The MSBuild engine is very powerful.

And like I said, I'm not sure I've scratched much more than the surface. A
lot of the stuff is not obvious. There are lots of small improvements in
general, rather than the big headlines new features.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Karl Seguin" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME net>
wrote in message news:uA**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Kevin:
I don't think it's as bad as Rob says for most people, and Idon't think
it's as good as what you say in a lot of cases. I get errors reported @
compile time that won't go away until I shut down and reopen vs.net.

System.Net.Mail is great and all, but some of the key classes are
read-only, making them very...inconvinient. I believe it's
MailAddress.... That's besides the point anyways, as the IDE, the
language and the framework features are separate thing. I think it's clear
Rob's having problems with the IDE. Honestly, I can't say that the VS.Net
2005 IDE has brought a lot to the table (Team System is different) other
than the ability to host the other 2 (language and framework).
Refactoring and all that is nice, but it's been something I've
supplemented with addons a long time ago...

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab
yourself the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't
feel so riped...


That's funny, Rob. I've been using it since beta 1, which *was*
bug-ridden. I am now using the RTM (since it was released a couple of
months ago), in which I've found no bugs whatsover, just waiting for the
Team System final version to come out. Works a heck of a lot better than
VS.Net 2003, does a lot more, and I wouldn't go back for love or money. I
still have to from time to time, to work on "legacy" 1.1 apps. I've
written half a dozen different applications with it, one of which is
already in production and working perfectly for about a month now. It's a
Windows service that uses the new FtpWebRequest and FtpWebResponse, the
new HttpWebRequest and HttpWebResponse, the new XSL and XML classes, and
has a web-based log-viewing application associated with it. It runs
continuously, with 2 different threads performing operations at 5-minute
and 1-hour intervals, 24 hours a day. It uses the System.Net.SmtpClient
class to send email reports out at regular intervals, and the new
Configuration classes to leverage the App.Config for settings and email
addresses.

One of the other apps I wrote, which was last built using the beta 2
release, was a Managed Direct3D terrain and environment simulator for
small aircraft, which uses a SQL Server database, various custom classes
for storing and parsing Geographical data on the fly, and Indigo services
to obtain real-time flight and GPS data. It was a prototype demonstrated
at the NASA SATS demo in Danville, Virginia in May, and has been touring
the country at various air shows for the past 5 or so months. I haven't
even had to touch it since May.

I guess I'm just lucky.

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many
others feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has
spent so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do
something useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot
do. For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter
component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it
to the toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way,
but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab
yourself the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't
feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...



Dec 1 '05 #23

P: n/a
Hi,

thanks, I tried that but they do not support the addition of the
SQLDataAdapter to the toolbar via "Choose Items", but thank you anyway..
Dec 1 '05 #24

P: n/a
Hey, maybe I spent so many years making chicken salad out of chicken s**t
that when I got my hands on some good tools I became a chicken salad
super-chef. But I can make chicken salad with my eyes closed using this
stuff, and it doesn't have that nasty aftertaste!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e2*************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Hi,

guess all I can say here is:, I sure didn't have to push so hard...

"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"
. - Fudd's First Law of Opposition


Dec 1 '05 #25

P: n/a
> I became a chicken salad super-chef. But I can make chicken salad with my
eyes closed using this stuff


I aspire one day to also becoming a "chicken salad super chef", I was only
trying to state that what works for one person doesn't need work for the
other..
Dec 1 '05 #26

P: n/a
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:09:40 -0500, "Rob Dob"
<ro************@yahoo.com> wrote:
The SQLDataAdapter is no longer available by
default in the toolbox, when you add it in and then try to make use of it
my application no longer works, However if you do the same on a winform
then everything works fine, I'm only referring to the webforms and c#
within webforms.


This could be a large part of your problem. The SqlDataAdapter doesn't
belong in the toolbox for a web form.

If you want to design table adapters, add a strongly typed DataSet to
the project and work with the typed DataSet designer. This designer is
the square hole for your square peg.

--
Scott
http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/
Dec 1 '05 #27

P: n/a
What does MS Support say about your problems?

Don't forget that your purchase includes free support incidents and perhaps
even a money-back guarantee.
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

Dec 1 '05 #28

P: n/a
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then quit
crying about something that has been released for a month. If you have been
doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know Microsoft well enough
to wait for the first service pack before even thinking about switching.

--

Derek Davis
dd******@gmail.com

"Ken Cox" <BA**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eu**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
What does MS Support say about your problems?

Don't forget that your purchase includes free support incidents and
perhaps even a money-back guarantee.
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...


Dec 2 '05 #29

P: n/a
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many
others feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from
VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has
spent so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do
something useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you
cannot do. For example, Go into component designer, or
SQLDataAdapter component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come
installed, so you add it to the toolbar and it doesn't work, it
breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way,
but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab
yourself the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't
feel so riped...


While I found some bugs in it which one actually locked up the IDE, it
is overall not that buggy. Slow, ok, but not buggy.

What I know is that if you had Beta2 on your system prior to
installing vs.net 2005 rtm and you didn't gothrough all the uninstall
crap (simply uninstalling beta2 isn't enough), you will experience
crashes and problems.

So my question to you is: did you have beta2 installed on that same
machine and did you go through the uninstall misery of beta2 BEFORE
installing vs.net rtm?

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 2 '05 #30

P: n/a
carion1 wrote:
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then
quit crying about something that has been released for a month. If
you have been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know
Microsoft well enough to wait for the first service pack before even
thinking about switching.


That's the most stupid analogy I've heard in years. "You have an
opinion? Oh, do it better!". yeah right.

So you never ever had a problem with ANY product you bought? I think
you have, everyone has. So, at that moment, you simply thought: "Oh
well, I can't complain, I can't do it better alone, myself" ? I bet you
didn't. "Oh my brand new XBox 360 doesn't work, oh well, I can't do it
better myself, so bummer..."

ALso, your babbling about service packs is not born in reality. VS.NET
2003 has a lot of bugs too (ever seen your custom user controls
dissapear on a winform?, or your asp.net source getting messed up
beyond repair? or suddenly your asp.net event handlers were gone? or C#
intellisense suddenly stops working in a property? etc.etc.) but never
has there been a service pack, left alone a single public patch.

If someone pays money for a product and it doesn't behave as expected,
the customer can complain to the producer of the product that it
doesn't behave as expected and the producer has to fix it. That's
simple stuff a 6 year old child even understands.

I'm not agreeing with the statement 'vs.net 2005 is a load of crap',
but I simply also refuse to agree with garbage statements like yours
either. If something doesn't work, it has to be fixed.

I filed a couple of bugs for vs.net 2005 since its RTM release. One
was a misery with splitter bars and scroll bars which lock up when you
close VS.NET 2005 when the solution has a code editor splitter
open/tabgroups. It was closed yesterday as 'won't fix' because MS
thinks it's too much work to fix it.

I was simply stunned. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it back
into gear and it's clearly a bug. Now you can come to me and tell me I
should do better or else shut up, but I hope you'll see how rediculus
that will be.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 2 '05 #31

P: n/a
Man, it's getting hot in here...

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
If you push something hard enough,
it will fall over.
- Fudd's First Law of Opposition

"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe******************@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:xn***************@news.microsoft.com...
carion1 wrote:
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then
quit crying about something that has been released for a month. If
you have been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know
Microsoft well enough to wait for the first service pack before even
thinking about switching.


That's the most stupid analogy I've heard in years. "You have an
opinion? Oh, do it better!". yeah right.

So you never ever had a problem with ANY product you bought? I think
you have, everyone has. So, at that moment, you simply thought: "Oh
well, I can't complain, I can't do it better alone, myself" ? I bet you
didn't. "Oh my brand new XBox 360 doesn't work, oh well, I can't do it
better myself, so bummer..."

ALso, your babbling about service packs is not born in reality. VS.NET
2003 has a lot of bugs too (ever seen your custom user controls
dissapear on a winform?, or your asp.net source getting messed up
beyond repair? or suddenly your asp.net event handlers were gone? or C#
intellisense suddenly stops working in a property? etc.etc.) but never
has there been a service pack, left alone a single public patch.

If someone pays money for a product and it doesn't behave as expected,
the customer can complain to the producer of the product that it
doesn't behave as expected and the producer has to fix it. That's
simple stuff a 6 year old child even understands.

I'm not agreeing with the statement 'vs.net 2005 is a load of crap',
but I simply also refuse to agree with garbage statements like yours
either. If something doesn't work, it has to be fixed.

I filed a couple of bugs for vs.net 2005 since its RTM release. One
was a misery with splitter bars and scroll bars which lock up when you
close VS.NET 2005 when the solution has a code editor splitter
open/tabgroups. It was closed yesterday as 'won't fix' because MS
thinks it's too much work to fix it.

I was simply stunned. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it back
into gear and it's clearly a bug. Now you can come to me and tell me I
should do better or else shut up, but I hope you'll see how rediculus
that will be.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dec 2 '05 #32

P: n/a
YOU know Microsoft's track record with new products. YOU chose to adopt the
product early. YOU are now complaining because it has some issues. The
common thing here seems to be YOU. You know the stove is hot. If you put
your hand on the stove, who' fault is it?

Sure we would all love to see more stable products at release from MS but
that hasn't been their track record. Adapt and move forward.

--

Derek Davis
dd******@gmail.com

"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe******************@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:xn***************@news.microsoft.com...
carion1 wrote:
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then
quit crying about something that has been released for a month. If
you have been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know
Microsoft well enough to wait for the first service pack before even
thinking about switching.


That's the most stupid analogy I've heard in years. "You have an
opinion? Oh, do it better!". yeah right.

So you never ever had a problem with ANY product you bought? I think
you have, everyone has. So, at that moment, you simply thought: "Oh
well, I can't complain, I can't do it better alone, myself" ? I bet you
didn't. "Oh my brand new XBox 360 doesn't work, oh well, I can't do it
better myself, so bummer..."

ALso, your babbling about service packs is not born in reality. VS.NET
2003 has a lot of bugs too (ever seen your custom user controls
dissapear on a winform?, or your asp.net source getting messed up
beyond repair? or suddenly your asp.net event handlers were gone? or C#
intellisense suddenly stops working in a property? etc.etc.) but never
has there been a service pack, left alone a single public patch.

If someone pays money for a product and it doesn't behave as expected,
the customer can complain to the producer of the product that it
doesn't behave as expected and the producer has to fix it. That's
simple stuff a 6 year old child even understands.

I'm not agreeing with the statement 'vs.net 2005 is a load of crap',
but I simply also refuse to agree with garbage statements like yours
either. If something doesn't work, it has to be fixed.

I filed a couple of bugs for vs.net 2005 since its RTM release. One
was a misery with splitter bars and scroll bars which lock up when you
close VS.NET 2005 when the solution has a code editor splitter
open/tabgroups. It was closed yesterday as 'won't fix' because MS
thinks it's too much work to fix it.

I was simply stunned. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it back
into gear and it's clearly a bug. Now you can come to me and tell me I
should do better or else shut up, but I hope you'll see how rediculus
that will be.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dec 2 '05 #33

P: n/a
I think VS2005 is a great tool and I applaud MS for listening to
developers and adding much needed features.

HOWEVER...

Who asked for some of the rediculous changes to Asp.net. For example:

A web app is not a project ?
Deploy source code to production and have it compiled on the fly ? Why
not deploy your source with WinForms too (sarcasm) ?
Little control over the generated assemblies, (name, version, etc)?
Randomly named assemblies per page, app_code, etc ?
Can't add a project reference to a web app?
Etc, etc, etc.

I think they had some great ideas, but the implementation fell short.

John Powell

Dec 2 '05 #34

P: n/a
On 2 Dec 2005 07:11:48 -0800, "jo**@johnwpowell.com"
<jo**@johnwpowell.com> wrote:
I think VS2005 is a great tool and I applaud MS for listening to
developers and adding much needed features.

HOWEVER...

Who asked for some of the rediculous changes to Asp.net. For example:

A web app is not a project ?
Deploy source code to production and have it compiled on the fly ? Why
not deploy your source with WinForms too (sarcasm) ?
Little control over the generated assemblies, (name, version, etc)?
Randomly named assemblies per page, app_code, etc ?
Can't add a project reference to a web app?
Etc, etc, etc.


Most of the issues you list here can be addressed with the web
deployment project.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/asp.net/re...p/default.aspx

Even without the WDP, you don't have to upload any source code to the
server - you can precompile the entire application, which is a step
further than 1.x days.

--
Scott
http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/
Dec 2 '05 #35

P: n/a
>Microsoft should spend more time building better more stable products
instead of spending it trying to steal apple's ipod patent.
Get your facts straight. MS owns the patent, not apple.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [MVP ASP.NET]

[Shameless Author plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now Available @ www.lulu.com/owc
Forth-coming VSTO.NET - Wrox/Wiley 2006
-------------------------------------------------------

"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:#k**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Speedwise my same app use to run twice as fast when compiled with Borland's over being compiled with MSC5.0, I have only done ddk development using MSC so I have nothing to compare, I have never thought of Microsoft having
great products, just great marketing, as they are now once again doing with FREE express versions, Trust Microsoft they know how to knock out the
competition... even look at msword, was the biggest piece of junk back in the days that WordPerfect was king. now its all everyone hears about...
Or OS2, far superior to Stable XP which confuses easily and dies,
Microsoft should spend more time building better more stable products
instead of spending it trying to steal apple's ipod patent. anyway I
realise this is not the newsgroup for this topic so please forgive me, I
will refrain in future..

thanks

Dec 2 '05 #36

P: n/a
> Get your facts straight. MS owns the patent, not apple.


yes, swift thinking on Gates part, I don't think gates has ever owned
anything that wasn't there before.. Look at SQL Server orginally SYSBASE,
orginally from UofWaterloo ( Canada )

anyway not the forum for this...

"lets just agree to disagree!!

thanks for the enlightenment..
Dec 2 '05 #37

P: n/a
carion1 wrote:
YOU know Microsoft's track record with new products. YOU chose to
adopt the product early. YOU are now complaining because it has some
issues. The common thing here seems to be YOU. You know the stove
is hot. If you put your hand on the stove, who' fault is it?
I'm not complaining, I just stated it has some bugs. I don't see any
logic in not doing that.

So your reasoning now switched from 'don't complain if you can't do it
better' to 'don't complain because it's brand new' ? What if I have to
do development on .NET 2.0 and can't wait for Q2 2006 before the
service pack is here? Ever thought of that? What if the service pack
gets delayed till doomsday, like the ever promised service pack for
vs.net 2003?
Sure we would all love to see more stable products at release from MS
but that hasn't been their track record. Adapt and move forward.


Who says I'm not adapting? I just can't stand smart-a$$es who tell the
world everybody should shut up because they can't do it better
themselves, because those smarts don't realize that stating it has some
bugs isn't the same as shouting "IT'S CRAP!!!111"

If I type text into a textbox/editor, I just want the textbox/editor
to accept the characters I type. If it then hangsup the program, the
editor is apparently flawed in a way for example Notepad isn't. Silly
analogy, I know, but it servers the point: accepting text into an
editor is a very silly dumb task and the core purpose of an editor.
ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE, the typed in text should be accepted. So if it
then hangs/crashes, is it stupid to say "It has a bug" ? I don't think
so. It simply states: it has a bug, so be aware of it.

I hope you're not part of the group of programmers who's still in that
corner desperately waiting for the vs.net 2003 service pack so they can
start programming with vs.net 2003. :)

I also never said everything should be bugfree. That's impossible to
achieve. So with that FACT the vendor has to live with and also has to
ADAPT -> develop a stategy so customers aren't hurt by the bugs which
are inevitably there.

Up till now Microsoft has done a terribly job in that department, when
it comes to visual studio.net, the application millions of developers
have to work with 8-10 hours A DAY.

They've promissed to improve their act, and Soma personally promissed
me they will do so, so I hope he'll uphold his promisse. We'll see in
about 6 months time.

For the IDE hang bug, a KB is released soon. However not a public fix.
This is the stuff I'm talking about: it's a work-losing critical bug,
but the fix won't be made publically available and to find it you've to
wade through the terrible KB search engine. Not what I call 'helping
customers'.

So before you start arguing again people should shut up or do it
better themselves, also look at the other side: Microsoft and tell them
they should get their act together as well, because enough is enough.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 3 '05 #38

P: n/a
You can add a project reference to a web app. but before that, you have to
add the project to the current solution.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF
<jo**@johnwpowell.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...
I think VS2005 is a great tool and I applaud MS for listening to
developers and adding much needed features.

HOWEVER...

Who asked for some of the rediculous changes to Asp.net. For example:

A web app is not a project ?
Deploy source code to production and have it compiled on the fly ? Why
not deploy your source with WinForms too (sarcasm) ?
Little control over the generated assemblies, (name, version, etc)?
Randomly named assemblies per page, app_code, etc ?
Can't add a project reference to a web app?
Etc, etc, etc.

I think they had some great ideas, but the implementation fell short.

John Powell

Dec 11 '05 #39

P: n/a
IMHO that is a loss of functionality. I should be able to reference
the assembly as I could in 2003. There is nothing fundamentally
different about a web assembly and a class library assembly and I don't
like the new approach to web projects.

Dec 17 '05 #40

P: n/a
Hi john,
You are right for the new approach of Web projects, and the good news is
that Microsoft is about to change that in the next weeks...
A preview of an alternative project model witch provides the same conceptual
web project semantics as VS 2003 web projects is available
Look at the Scott Guthrie blog :
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...16/433374.aspx

--
Daniel TIZON
MCP - MCSD.NET - MCT

<jo**@johnwpowell.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
11**********************@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups. com...
IMHO that is a loss of functionality. I should be able to reference
the assembly as I could in 2003. There is nothing fundamentally
different about a web assembly and a class library assembly and I don't
like the new approach to web projects.

Dec 17 '05 #41

P: n/a
I'm having NUMEROUS problems with VWD. One size, as usual, does not fit
all.

Randall Arnold

"Danny Tuppeny" <gr****@dantup.me.uk.remove> wrote in message
news:43***********************@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent
so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something
useful with it it doesn't work...

<snip>

Maybe you should use the free Express versions - I've not had a single
problem with either VWD and VC#! ;-)

Jan 3 '06 #42

P: n/a
Your comments are disingenuous. One need not be a tool developer to point
out flaws in a tool. We developers have every right to point out problems
with MS products.

Randall Arnold

"carion1" <dd******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e%****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then quit
crying about something that has been released for a month. If you have
been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know Microsoft well
enough to wait for the first service pack before even thinking about
switching.

--

Derek Davis
dd******@gmail.com

"Ken Cox" <BA**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eu**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
What does MS Support say about your problems?

Don't forget that your purchase includes free support incidents and
perhaps even a money-back guarantee.
"Rob Dob" <ro************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many
others feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has
spent so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do
something useful with it it doesn't work...



Jan 3 '06 #43

P: n/a
Just more disingenuous commentary from you. Do you have anything to offer
other than spiteful, naive remarks?

Randall Arnold

"carion1" <dd******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
YOU know Microsoft's track record with new products. YOU chose to adopt
the product early. YOU are now complaining because it has some issues.
The common thing here seems to be YOU. You know the stove is hot. If you
put your hand on the stove, who' fault is it?

Sure we would all love to see more stable products at release from MS but
that hasn't been their track record. Adapt and move forward.

--

Derek Davis
dd******@gmail.com

"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe******************@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:xn***************@news.microsoft.com...
carion1 wrote:
I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then
quit crying about something that has been released for a month. If
you have been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know
Microsoft well enough to wait for the first service pack before even
thinking about switching.


That's the most stupid analogy I've heard in years. "You have an
opinion? Oh, do it better!". yeah right.

So you never ever had a problem with ANY product you bought? I think
you have, everyone has. So, at that moment, you simply thought: "Oh
well, I can't complain, I can't do it better alone, myself" ? I bet you
didn't. "Oh my brand new XBox 360 doesn't work, oh well, I can't do it
better myself, so bummer..."

ALso, your babbling about service packs is not born in reality. VS.NET
2003 has a lot of bugs too (ever seen your custom user controls
dissapear on a winform?, or your asp.net source getting messed up
beyond repair? or suddenly your asp.net event handlers were gone? or C#
intellisense suddenly stops working in a property? etc.etc.) but never
has there been a service pack, left alone a single public patch.

If someone pays money for a product and it doesn't behave as expected,
the customer can complain to the producer of the product that it
doesn't behave as expected and the producer has to fix it. That's
simple stuff a 6 year old child even understands.

I'm not agreeing with the statement 'vs.net 2005 is a load of crap',
but I simply also refuse to agree with garbage statements like yours
either. If something doesn't work, it has to be fixed.

I filed a couple of bugs for vs.net 2005 since its RTM release. One
was a misery with splitter bars and scroll bars which lock up when you
close VS.NET 2005 when the solution has a code editor splitter
open/tabgroups. It was closed yesterday as 'won't fix' because MS
thinks it's too much work to fix it.

I was simply stunned. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it back
into gear and it's clearly a bug. Now you can come to me and tell me I
should do better or else shut up, but I hope you'll see how rediculus
that will be.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jan 3 '06 #44

P: n/a
I have run into a lot of issues as well. However, I'll be submitting bug
reports to MS so that they can fix it instead of complaining on the
newsgroups. I think if we all adopted this strategy, then it would result in
more good than harm.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [MVP ASP.NET]

[Shameless Author plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now Available @ www.lulu.com/owc
Forth-coming VSTO.NET - Wrox/Wiley 2006
-------------------------------------------------------

"Randall Arnold" <ra************@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:ui**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Just more disingenuous commentary from you. Do you have anything to offer
other than spiteful, naive remarks?

Randall Arnold

"carion1" <dd******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
YOU know Microsoft's track record with new products. YOU chose to adopt
the product early. YOU are now complaining because it has some issues.
The common thing here seems to be YOU. You know the stove is hot. If you put your hand on the stove, who' fault is it?

Sure we would all love to see more stable products at release from MS but that hasn't been their track record. Adapt and move forward.

--

Derek Davis
dd******@gmail.com

"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe******************@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:xn***************@news.microsoft.com...
carion1 wrote:

I challenge the complainers to write something better. Can't? Then
quit crying about something that has been released for a month. If
you have been doing this for more than 2 weeks then you should know
Microsoft well enough to wait for the first service pack before even
thinking about switching.

That's the most stupid analogy I've heard in years. "You have an
opinion? Oh, do it better!". yeah right.

So you never ever had a problem with ANY product you bought? I think
you have, everyone has. So, at that moment, you simply thought: "Oh
well, I can't complain, I can't do it better alone, myself" ? I bet you
didn't. "Oh my brand new XBox 360 doesn't work, oh well, I can't do it
better myself, so bummer..."

ALso, your babbling about service packs is not born in reality. VS.NET
2003 has a lot of bugs too (ever seen your custom user controls
dissapear on a winform?, or your asp.net source getting messed up
beyond repair? or suddenly your asp.net event handlers were gone? or C#
intellisense suddenly stops working in a property? etc.etc.) but never
has there been a service pack, left alone a single public patch.

If someone pays money for a product and it doesn't behave as expected,
the customer can complain to the producer of the product that it
doesn't behave as expected and the producer has to fix it. That's
simple stuff a 6 year old child even understands.

I'm not agreeing with the statement 'vs.net 2005 is a load of crap',
but I simply also refuse to agree with garbage statements like yours
either. If something doesn't work, it has to be fixed.

I filed a couple of bugs for vs.net 2005 since its RTM release. One
was a misery with splitter bars and scroll bars which lock up when you
close VS.NET 2005 when the solution has a code editor splitter
open/tabgroups. It was closed yesterday as 'won't fix' because MS
thinks it's too much work to fix it.

I was simply stunned. It takes me a couple of minutes to get it back
into gear and it's clearly a bug. Now you can come to me and tell me I
should do better or else shut up, but I hope you'll see how rediculus
that will be.

FB

--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jan 3 '06 #45

P: n/a
Alvin Bruney - ASP.NET MVP wrote:
I have run into a lot of issues as well. However, I'll be submitting
bug reports to MS so that they can fix it instead of complaining on
the newsgroups. I think if we all adopted this strategy, then it
would result in more good than harm.


That is a good strategy. If I see someone post something here that I can
confirm is a bug, I'll enter a bug on it and pursue it, but almost every
"bug" post I see is in fact not a bug. :)

--
Jim Cheshire
================================
Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/jamesche

Latest entry:
Getting the PID and TID of a COM Call

Describes how to get the PID of the
dllhost process a COM call is executing
in and how to locate the thread as well.

Jan 3 '06 #46

P: n/a
To each their own. I've using VWD for about two months now. With the
exception of a few issues, I haven't had any major problems with it. Note
that I'm a former anti-VS programmer who would primarily use a text editor
to develop .NET web apps with.

Thus, my suggestion to you would be to move on to a text editor, or keep
trying VWD and see if you get the kinks worked out. It's your choice, but
ranting and raving about the problems will not make any more productive and
it certainly won't move Microsoft to fix the "bugs".
--
Christopher A. Reed
"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

"Randall Arnold" <ra************@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:OP**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
I'm having NUMEROUS problems with VWD. One size, as usual, does not fit
all.

Randall Arnold

Jan 4 '06 #47

P: n/a
I am having troubles converting vb code behind to vs2005 - I converted c#
code behind no problem at all, but I get compile errors with vb that I cant
work out what the cause is - for every one of my vb code behind files, the
same errors!!
InitializeCulture is not a member of ASP.[filename].aspx
CreateResourceBasedLiteralControl is not a member of ...
Context is not a member of [project name].[filename]

Help??!!

"Fred Nelson" wrote:
Hi Rob:

I had some problems with it also at first. Now I have converted two
major apps from VS.2003 and it seems to be fine for me.

Hang in there - it will get better!

Fred
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...

Anyway my two cents...


Feb 20 '06 #48

P: n/a
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:41:36 -0800, "mishj" <mi***@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
I am having troubles converting vb code behind to vs2005 - I converted c#
code behind no problem at all, but I get compile errors with vb that I cant
work out what the cause is - for every one of my vb code behind files, the
same errors!!
InitializeCulture is not a member of ASP.[filename].aspx
CreateResourceBasedLiteralControl is not a member of ...
Context is not a member of [project name].[filename]

Help??!!

"Fred Nelson" wrote:
Hi Rob:

I had some problems with it also at first. Now I have converted two
major apps from VS.2003 and it seems to be fine for me.

Hang in there - it will get better!

Fred
Rob Dob wrote:
> VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others
> feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,
>
> VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so
> much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful
> with it it doesn't work...
>
> Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do.
> For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for
> WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and
> it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.
>
> I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but
> build anytihng decent and forget it..,
>
> VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself
> the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...
>
> Anyway my two cents...
>
>


Anyone figure out what Rob Dob's C# application development question was?

Otis Mukinfus
http://www.arltex.com
http://www.tomchilders.com
Feb 20 '06 #49

P: n/a
can you post the code that will not port?

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [MVP ASP.NET]

[Shameless Author plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now Available @ www.lulu.com/owc
Forth-coming VSTO.NET - Wrox/Wiley 2006
-------------------------------------------------------

"mishj" <mi***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:52**********************************@microsof t.com...
I am having troubles converting vb code behind to vs2005 - I converted c#
code behind no problem at all, but I get compile errors with vb that I cant work out what the cause is - for every one of my vb code behind files, the
same errors!!
InitializeCulture is not a member of ASP.[filename].aspx
CreateResourceBasedLiteralControl is not a member of ...
Context is not a member of [project name].[filename]

Help??!!

"Fred Nelson" wrote:
Hi Rob:

I had some problems with it also at first. Now I have converted two
major apps from VS.2003 and it seems to be fine for me.

Hang in there - it will get better!

Fred
Rob Dob wrote:
VS2005 is a PIECE of Garbage and is bug Ridden, I wonder how many others feel the same, I am so sorry that I have moved away from VS2003,

VS2005 is unstable, and half the stuff doesn't work, Microsft has spent so much time trying to make it simply that when you try to do something useful with it it doesn't work...

Half the time it crashes, and menu items appear for things you cannot do. For example, Go into component designer, or SQLDataAdapter component for WebForms is junk, doesn't come installed, so you add it to the toolbar and it doesn't work, it breaks webforms.

I guess this is now a good system for doing things the microsoft way, but build anytihng decent and forget it..,

VS2005 is a WASTE of MONEY.. I advise all to NOT upgrade, grab yourself the express additons the FREE versions, at least you won't feel so riped...
Anyway my two cents...


Feb 22 '06 #50

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