C++ Delphi C# ???

[lukeharpin]

Hi World,

We have been developing Engineering software in Delphi 3,4,5,6,7 for a
few years now. This morning we had a discussion about OOP and
re-programming the software to which the question came up, should we
stay with Delphi and go with Delphi 2005 or not. I'm interested to
here everyone's opinion. Here were a few points raised. Is the
future .net and will every one have .net in 2 years time. Will Delphi
be around in 5 years time. Should we look at going to C++.net or is it
to hard a language. Should we look at Java or C#.net. As we're based
in Australia not to many PC have .net install as yet which is also true
in Japan and NZ. How has the development arena in Europe and the US
been progressing.

Regards,

Luke Harpin

[Michael A. Covington]

I would say, move to C#, because the lead developer of Delphi is now the
lead developer of C#.

[The Crow]

u can embedd .Net framework to the installer of your app or distribute with
CD

[Javaman59]

Greetiings Luke, and g'day from Adelaide!

I'm glad to hear that .Net hasn't taken off in Oz yet, because I've feared
that my recent transition to it is too late. Looks like I might still have a
window of opportunity.

We get the occassional Delphi convert posting in this forum. If you do a
search for Delphi, you'll probably find something.

I can't comment on whether to stick with Delphi .Net, or switch to VS, but I
would say that when you are considering VS, only look at C# - don't give a
moment's thought to VB, or C++. C# is much easier to learn, and use, than
C++. It is similar to Java, so you'll be able to use Java programmers. C++
programmers (like myself) are quick to learn C#, and would be mad not to
prefer it. The IDE support is better, because C# was designed with an IDE in
mind. The list goes on.

Regards,

Javaman

[Michael C]

"The Crow" <q> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

u can embedd .Net framework to the installer of your app or distribute with
CD

Being engineering software I don't think this would be a problem because it
would usually be supplied on CD.

Michael

[jeremiah johnson]

The designer of Delphi is the designer of C#, so that should count for
something.

..NET 2.0 (or maybe 2.2 or something) is very likely to come with Windows
Vista, since I know that a lot of the new Avalon (ahem, sorry; "Windows
Presentation Foundation") stuff they've developed is built in C# on .NET 2.

I'd say the chances of .NET coming with the next version of Windows are
very, very high.

--
jeremiah();

lu********@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi World,

We have been developing Engineering software in Delphi 3,4,5,6,7 for a
few years now. This morning we had a discussion about OOP and
re-programming the software to which the question came up, should we
stay with Delphi and go with Delphi 2005 or not. I'm interested to
here everyone's opinion. Here were a few points raised. Is the
future .net and will every one have .net in 2 years time. Will Delphi
be around in 5 years time. Should we look at going to C++.net or is it
to hard a language. Should we look at Java or C#.net. As we're based
in Australia not to many PC have .net install as yet which is also true
in Japan and NZ. How has the development arena in Europe and the US
been progressing.

Regards,

Luke Harpin

[Abubakar]

> I'd say the chances of .NET coming with the next version of Windows are

very, very high.
not just high, its 100%. .net already comes pre-installed with windows 2003,
and windows xp service packs also installs .net.

Ab.
http://joehacker.blogspot.com
there are better things to discuss like :
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7328143/

"jeremiah johnson" <us**@example.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... The designer of Delphi is the designer of C#, so that should count for
something.

.NET 2.0 (or maybe 2.2 or something) is very likely to come with Windows
Vista, since I know that a lot of the new Avalon (ahem, sorry; "Windows
Presentation Foundation") stuff they've developed is built in C# on .NET 2.
I'd say the chances of .NET coming with the next version of Windows are
very, very high.

--
jeremiah();

lu********@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi World,

We have been developing Engineering software in Delphi 3,4,5,6,7 for a
few years now. This morning we had a discussion about OOP and
re-programming the software to which the question came up, should we
stay with Delphi and go with Delphi 2005 or not. I'm interested to
here everyone's opinion. Here were a few points raised. Is the
future .net and will every one have .net in 2 years time. Will Delphi
be around in 5 years time. Should we look at going to C++.net or is it
to hard a language. Should we look at Java or C#.net. As we're based
in Australia not to many PC have .net install as yet which is also true
in Japan and NZ. How has the development arena in Europe and the US
been progressing.

Regards,

Luke Harpin

[Marc Scheuner [MVP ADSI]]

>We have been developing Engineering software in Delphi 3,4,5,6,7 for a

few years now. This morning we had a discussion about OOP and
re-programming the software to which the question came up, should we
stay with Delphi and go with Delphi 2005 or not. I'm interested to
here everyone's opinion. Here were a few points raised. Is the
future .net and will every one have .net in 2 years time. Will Delphi
be around in 5 years time. Should we look at going to C++.net or is it
to hard a language. Should we look at Java or C#.net.

Well, I can tell you from my perspective what I'd do - it depends :-)

Yes, Delphi will still be around in 5 years - I'm totally sure about
that. The rumours of its death have been floating around since its
start in 1995 - it's still here, alive, and kicking, 10 years down the
road. And D2005 is a *GOOD* development environment, no question -
both for Win32 as well as .NET. It gives you the flexibility no other
IDE offers - you can have both Win32 *AND* .NET apps done in D2005.
And it's a first class .NET citizen - any .NET class / API is
accessible to Delphi. With Delphi 2006 (just announced), you'll get
Compact Framework support, too. And Borland is totally committed to
supporting .NET 2.0 and things beyond that (like LINQ).

If you feel like you have to move elsewhere, then I'd strongly
recommend .NET - even if not a lot of machines have it installed toady
- it's no biggie to install, you can ship it with your app and have it
install silently. And with WinVista, EVERYONE will have .NET baked in.

Also, I'd strongly recommend C# over C++, if you move. C# is much
easier to learn, much more useful than C++. It puts a lot of emphasis
on code security and stability - I find it the first language from the
C family that I can live with and be productive with. There's just too
many ways to shoot yourself in the foot (and head) using C++.

And from all I see, I would strongly favour .NET over Java for two
reasons - excellent support for REAL Windows GUI apps (java lacks
badly in this regard), and an excellent web development story with
ASP.NET. Java is great for backend enterprise apps with no GUI, but I
would place my bet on .NET over Java for the PC oriented desktop and
handheld devices.

Marc

================================================== ==============
Marc Scheuner May The Source Be With You!
Berne, Switzerland m.scheuner -at- inova.ch

[Scott Roberts]

Good post. As a long time Delphi developer and recent C# convert, I agree
with all you said. One caveat, though:

"Marc Scheuner [MVP ADSI]" <m.********@inova.SPAMBEGONE.ch> wrote in message
news:hf********************************@4ax.com...

It gives you the flexibility no other
IDE offers - you can have both Win32 *AND* .NET apps done in D2005.

While you can create both types with D2005, I think it is problematic to try
to compile the *same* application for both Win32 and .Net - especially with
an engineering application. From what I've read in the Delphi newsgroups,
the underlying differences (even if you are using the VCL) can cause some
problems (performance problems, if nothing else).

We have chosen to completely abandon Delphi for new projects (we still use
D7 for our legacy apps - which we continue to develop, so maybe they're not
all that "legacy"). Basically, MS is driving the ship now and have finally
put out an IDE that is usable (VS 2003). Borland used to have a huge
advantage over VB in both IDE and language features, but that advantage has
disappeared (IMO) with C# and VS 2003. Now it's MS doing the innovation -
from .Net to 64-bit compilers (Delphi currently has no plans for native
64-bit support). Personally, I see no reason to stay with Delphi other than
"it's what you know".

[Jani Järvinen [MVP]]

Hello!

Delphi currently has no plans for native 64-bit support.

Unfortunately, this is not true. Although it is not very widely known,
Borland does in fact have a roadmap that includes a native 64-bit compiler
at around 2007/2008 timeframe. This is noted here:

http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33346,00.html

There, Michael Swindell (Director of Delphi Product Management) says:
"...64-bit native compilers are on the roadmap in the 2007/2008 timeframe."

-------

As for the original poster's questions, I would briefly comment as follows.
I see no reason why you couldn't continue using Delphi, since that is where
your current investments (skills and code base) are. Moving to .NET (if that
is what you want to do) is much easier for Delphi developers than it is for
example to VB 6.0 developers, although like another poster noted, VCL.NET is
not a perfect copy of Win32 VCL (but then again, what would?).


I personally believe Delphi has a future, even though it can never match the
huge developer base that Microsoft's languages have. Having used the tool
for 10+ years, these rumors about its death have been with the product all
from the beginning but it is still alive and well, like another poster
already noted.

Today, Borland has plans to support both native development and .NET
development in the future, including .NET 2.0. From that perspective, I
wouldn't see that Delphi would be a bad choice at all. However, if you want
to have the latest bells and whistles and need to move to .NET, then
Microsoft Visual Studio has the advantage, especially with their new 2005
version. But for Win32 development, I would say Delphi is still the fastest
RAD development tool available. Delphi 2006 has just been announced, and you
might want to check it out.

If you choose to abandon Delphi, I would recommend C#. It is easy to learn
for a Delphi developer, the language is clean, and lets you develop great
applications with .NET. I wouldn't consider C++ anymore, except maybe in the
case your development team has a strong background in C++.

Hope this helps.
--
Regards,

Mr. Jani Järvinen
C# MVP
Helsinki, Finland
ja***@removethis.dystopia.fi
http://www.saunalahti.fi/janij/

[Scott Roberts]

"Jani Järvinen [MVP]" <ja***@removethis.dystopia.fi> wrote in message
news:u5**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

Delphi currently has no plans for native 64-bit support.

Unfortunately, this is not true. Although it is not very widely known,
Borland does in fact have a roadmap that includes a native 64-bit compiler
at around 2007/2008 timeframe. This is noted here:

http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33346,00.html

There, Michael Swindell (Director of Delphi Product Management) says:
"...64-bit native compilers are on the roadmap in the 2007/2008

timeframe."

Why "unfortunately"?

Regardless, thanks for the update!

[Jani Järvinen [MVP]]

Scott,

> Delphi currently has no plans for native 64-bit support.

Unfortunately, this is not true.

Why "unfortunately"?

I guess it is just my way of being more polite.

In my opinion it would be quite blunt to start my message by saying "Not
true!". Different types of people from different cultures read these
newsgroups, so I believe it is better to be safe than sorry in this regard.

Othewise, I see absolutely no problem with a 64-bit Delphi. In fact I'd love
to see one! :-)

--
Regards,

Mr. Jani Järvinen
C# MVP
Helsinki, Finland
ja***@removethis.dystopia.fi
http://www.saunalahti.fi/janij/

[Randall Parker]

Michael A. Covington wrote:

I would say, move to C#, because the lead developer of Delphi is now the
lead developer of C#.

Didn't he switch over to MS 8 or 10 years ago? I think that's more a measure of the
MS stock options on offer for talented developers back then. BTW, it is my
understanding that stock options aren't the get rich quick path that they were back
then.

People ought to answer the original poster's questions with more technical arguments.

[Randall Parker]

lu********@hotmail.com wrote:

Hi World,

We have been developing Engineering software in Delphi 3,4,5,6,7 for a
few years now.
If you have a large code base then you have to ask two questions:

1) Is it worth the cost of porting it to a new language? What's the benefit?

2) Is there some downside for continuing to make Win32 exes? If so, what is it from
an economic standpoint?

3) Do you think you'll be more productive in a different IDE?
This morning we had a discussion about OOP and
re-programming the software to which the question came up, should we
stay with Delphi and go with Delphi 2005 or not. I'm interested to
here everyone's opinion. Here were a few points raised. Is the
future .net and will every one have .net in 2 years time. Will Delphi
be around in 5 years time.
Borland's death has been predicted for so many years that it is ridiculous. I don't
put much credence in these predictions.
Should we look at going to C++.net or is it
to hard a language.
Hard for someone else to judge for you. I happen to like C++ and do a lot of work in it.
Should we look at Java or C#.net.
I can see Java for server and web apps. I can't see it for regular client apps as a
competitor to Win32 apps. Swing is lousy and the third party controls market is much
smaller than VCL or .NET.
As we're based
in Australia not to many PC have .net install as yet which is also true
in Japan and NZ. How has the development arena in Europe and the US
been progressing.

Regards,

Luke Harpin