VS 2005

[Just D.]

What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease and
even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect it?

Just D.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:

What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease and
even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]]

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at that conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:

What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease and
even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

[Bret Pehrson]

"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at that conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:

> What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease and
> even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this long, w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02 abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable' release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/ VS.05...

[Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]]

Hi Bret,

What are you basing this comment on? Have you used Beta 1 of VS 2005 and
found it lacking. If so, I would be very interested in talking to you about
what parts you found problematic. If you want to do that you can email me
contact info and I'll get back to you (my email is the expected
transformation from my posting alias).

Thanks!

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Bret Pehrson" <br**@classicade.com> wrote in message
news:41***************@classicade.com...

"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at that
conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:

> What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease

and

> even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect

it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this long,
w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02
abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable'
release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/ VS.05...

[Just D.]

Hi Ronald,

I'm sure you know this URL: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/

This is the current situation on 12/10/2004 11:11 AM (-7).

15119 people have contributed.
904 total active bugs.
5342 total bugs.
545 total active suggestions.
3537 total suggestions.

Thanks,
Just D.

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Or*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Bret,

What are you basing this comment on? Have you used Beta 1 of VS 2005 and
found it lacking. If so, I would be very interested in talking to you
about what parts you found problematic. If you want to do that you can
email me contact info and I'll get back to you (my email is the expected
transformation from my posting alias).

Thanks!

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Bret Pehrson" <br**@classicade.com> wrote in message
news:41***************@classicade.com...

"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at that
conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:
> What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about
prerelease and
> even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect
it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this
long, w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02
abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable'
release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/ VS.05...

[Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]]

Yes, I am aware of this. Can you elaborate on what conclusions you are
drawing from this data?

Thanks.

Ronald

"Just D." <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:pGlud.4363$NQ6.2914@fed1read03...

Hi Ronald,

I'm sure you know this URL: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/

This is the current situation on 12/10/2004 11:11 AM (-7).

15119 people have contributed.
904 total active bugs.
5342 total bugs.
545 total active suggestions.
3537 total suggestions.

Thanks,
Just D.

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Or*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Bret,

What are you basing this comment on? Have you used Beta 1 of VS 2005 and
found it lacking. If so, I would be very interested in talking to you
about what parts you found problematic. If you want to do that you can
email me contact info and I'll get back to you (my email is the expected
transformation from my posting alias).

Thanks!

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Bret Pehrson" <br**@classicade.com> wrote in message
news:41***************@classicade.com...

"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at
that conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:
> What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about
prerelease and
> even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can
expect it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.
Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this
long, w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02
abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable'
release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/ VS.05...

[Bret Pehrson]

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" wrote:

Hi Bret,

What are you basing this comment on? Have you used Beta 1 of VS 2005 and
found it lacking. If so, I would be very interested in talking to you about
what parts you found problematic. If you want to do that you can email me
contact info and I'll get back to you (my email is the expected
transformation from my posting alias).
All of my VS.05 comments are a priori. I haven't looked at the product, nor
plan on it until after it is released, just basing it on my many years of using
MS products.

I'd be mildly surprised if VS.05 is a stable release -- good luck.

Don't take my comments as attacking or vindictive -- I have a _lot_ of
frustration w/ MS products, especially the MSVC line. Every version is buggier
and slower than the previous, and backward compatibility for user
settings/customizations/etc. is nonexistent.

If you want my suggestions, they are simple:

- service packs, fix/address the bugginess/problems for the current products
that I've already invested in. $2k for VS.03 and no sp/updates/fixes = bad
policy

- backward compatibility to user configuration/settings


Thanks!

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Bret Pehrson" <br**@classicade.com> wrote in message
news:41***************@classicade.com...

"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:

PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at that
conference

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:
> What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about prerelease
and
> even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can expect
it?

Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.

Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this long,
w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02
abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable'
release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/ VS.05...

[Just D.]

Just two words - it's too wet.

Just D.

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ul**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Yes, I am aware of this. Can you elaborate on what conclusions you are
drawing from this data?

Thanks.

Ronald

"Just D." <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:pGlud.4363$NQ6.2914@fed1read03...

Hi Ronald,

I'm sure you know this URL: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/

This is the current situation on 12/10/2004 11:11 AM (-7).

15119 people have contributed.
904 total active bugs.
5342 total bugs.
545 total active suggestions.
3537 total suggestions.

Thanks,
Just D.

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Or*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Bret,

What are you basing this comment on? Have you used Beta 1 of VS 2005 and
found it lacking. If so, I would be very interested in talking to you
about what parts you found problematic. If you want to do that you can
email me contact info and I'll get back to you (my email is the expected
transformation from my posting alias).

Thanks!

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Bret Pehrson" <br**@classicade.com> wrote in message
news:41***************@classicade.com...
"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" wrote:
>
> PDC 2005 is in Sept next year so I imagine it will be by then or at
> that conference
>
> Regards
>
> Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor
> http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk/weblog
> http://www.dotnetconsult.co.uk
>
> Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > What's the current situation with VS 2005? I've heard about
> prerelease and
> > even downloaded something. What about release, how soon we can
> expect it?
>
> Talk is of the near the end of H1 2005.
>

Dude, the writing is on the wall for this one. If it is taking this
long, w/
this much uncertainty, the VS.05 release is going to be another VS.02
abortion,
full of problems/bugs/1st rev issues. Wait for VS.06+ for a 'stable'
release.

As it is, VS.02 was an alpha, VS.03 is a beta; back to alpha w/
VS.05...

[Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]]

Just D. wrote:

Just two words - it's too wet.

That's three words, and not very meaningful/helpful.

-cd

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Just D. <[e-mail]> wrote:

Just two words - it's too wet.

Because it has active bugs? I suspect you'll find that every product
which has an open bug database has lots of active bugs. Eclipse, a very
stable and mature IDE in my view, has *loads* of open bugs. Some may
turn out not to really be bugs, some may be duplicates, some may not be
terribly urgent.

In short, I don't think you can logically draw any conclusions from the
numbers you posted.

No-one here will be forcing you to use VS.NET 2005 though, of course -
feel free not to get the productivity enhancements, language and
framework features, etc...

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Bret Pehrson]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" wrote:

No-one here will be forcing you to use VS.NET 2005 though, of course -
feel free not to get the productivity enhancements, language and
framework features, etc...

100% wrong. Are you telling me that there is no external/internal force that
drives & commands us to use the latest development environment from MS??? I
hope not...

If we weren't _compelled_ to use their product, there would actually be a
competitive presence in the marketplace, just like there used to be in the day
days of Borland.

There is _NO_ competition to MSVC -- why do you think they release when they
want, scheduled be damned, no updates/patches/fixes/service packs, no customer
support, etc. We are the victims of Microsoft's success.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Bret Pehrson <br**@classicade.com> wrote:

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" wrote:

No-one here will be forcing you to use VS.NET 2005 though, of course -
feel free not to get the productivity enhancements, language and
framework features, etc...
100% wrong. Are you telling me that there is no external/internal
force that drives & commands us to use the latest development
environment from MS??? I hope not...

I said "no-one here" very carefully - no-one on this newsgroup is going
to tell you you *have* to use VS.NET 2005. Your boss may do, of course,
but none of us will.
If we weren't _compelled_ to use their product, there would actually be a
competitive presence in the marketplace, just like there used to be in the day
days of Borland.

There is _NO_ competition to MSVC -- why do you think they release when they
want, scheduled be damned, no updates/patches/fixes/service packs, no customer
support, etc. We are the victims of Microsoft's success.

Well, there are other IDEs - there are other C# IDEs, other IDEs which
build IL from other languages (eg Delphi) and of course there are other
IDEs for other languages and platforms entirely.

I suspect the reason there aren't many other major Windows-specific
C/C++ IDEs is that MS are always going to have the upper hand with
things like MSDN. I suspect it's not terribly easy to interface to MSDN
without a good deal of help. With .NET it should be more feasible to
link to .NET documentation, although I haven't investigated how well
documented the standard library is in straight XML etc.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Ravichandran J.V.]

October 2005 would be my guess but since you have downloaded the Express
editions they should server you well till the Release version.

with regards,
J.V.Ravichandran
- http://www.geocities.com/
jvravichandran
- http://www.411asp.net/func/search?
qry=Ravichandran+J.V.&cob=aspnetpro
- http://www.southasianoutlook.com
- http://www.MSDNAA.Net
- http://www.csharphelp.com
- http://www.poetry.com/Publications/
display.asp?ID=P3966388&BN=999&PN=2
- Or, just search on "J.V.Ravichandran"
at http://www.Google.com

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!

[Hendrik Schober]

Bret Pehrson <br**@classicade.com> wrote:

[...]
Don't take my comments as attacking or vindictive -- I have a _lot_ of
frustration w/ MS products, especially the MSVC line. Every version is buggier
and slower than the previous, and backward compatibility for user
settings/customizations/etc. is nonexistent.
Ha, or me it's the opposite:
The compiler got a lot better (with VC7.1,
that is). OTOH I regret that MS is paying so
much attention to the guys that are to lazy
(or to dumb even) to add a few switches to
compile their old code base at the expense
of making the compiler default to compiling
wrong code and barking at right code. (I
have to turn on /Zc:wchar_t, /Zc:forScope,
/GR for each and every project I create.)
If you want my suggestions, they are simple:

- service packs, fix/address the bugginess/problems for the current products
that I've already invested in. $2k for VS.03 and no sp/updates/fixes = bad
policy
Here I agree.
[...]

Schobi

--
Sp******@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett

[Bret Pehrson]

Hendrik Schober wrote:

Bret Pehrson <br**@classicade.com> wrote:

[...]
Don't take my comments as attacking or vindictive -- I have a _lot_ of
frustration w/ MS products, especially the MSVC line. Every version is buggier
and slower than the previous, and backward compatibility for user
settings/customizations/etc. is nonexistent.
Ha, or me it's the opposite:
The compiler got a lot better (with VC7.1,
that is). OTOH I regret that MS is paying so
much attention to the guys that are to lazy
(or to dumb even) to add a few switches to
compile their old code base at the expense
of making the compiler default to compiling
wrong code and barking at right code. (I
have to turn on /Zc:wchar_t, /Zc:forScope,
/GR for each and every project I create.)

The compiler is definitely more _conformant_ to the standard, but I think that
it is pretty much in unanimous agreement that it is slower.

If you want my suggestions, they are simple:

- service packs, fix/address the bugginess/problems for the current products
that I've already invested in. $2k for VS.03 and no sp/updates/fixes = bad
policy

Here I agree.

[...]

Schobi

--
Sp******@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett

[Hendrik Schober]

Bret Pehrson <br**@classicade.com> wrote:

[...]
The compiler is definitely more _conformant_ to the standard, but I think that
it is pretty much in unanimous agreement that it is slower.
I rather hvae it this way, than the
other way around.
[...]

Schobi

--
Sp******@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett

[Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]]

The (significantly!) better conformance and the reduction in build
throughput are very much related.

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

"Hendrik Schober" <Sp******@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

Bret Pehrson <br**@classicade.com> wrote:

[...]
The compiler is definitely more _conformant_ to the standard, but I think
that
it is pretty much in unanimous agreement that it is slower.

I rather hvae it this way, than the
other way around.

[...]

Schobi

--
Sp******@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely
to be prefered to those thinking they've found it."
Terry Pratchett