473,327 Members | 2,071 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
Post Job

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Join Bytes to post your question to a community of 473,327 software developers and data experts.

Standards

Hi,

What is the status on the "standardization" (outside MS) of the BCLs?

Is everything under the System namespace going to be "standard" and
everything under the Microsoft namespace custom per MS specific and in
general Vendor.* namespaces for vendor specific classes.

Is WinForms etc planned to be part of this "standard" or will it be not
very portable and therefore should belong under the Microsoft.* namespace?

Thanks
Nov 15 '05 #1
12 1596
You can look at ISO and ECMA in the specs what is standardized.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/

Mainly the CLR and the System namespace I believe.
Well, Mono is trying to get an exact behaviour in porting almost any
namespace, wo that shouldn't be a problem.

Greetz,
-- Rob.

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Hi,

What is the status on the "standardization" (outside MS) of the
BCLs?

Is everything under the System namespace going to be "standard" and
everything under the Microsoft namespace custom per MS specific and
in general Vendor.* namespaces for vendor specific classes.

Is WinForms etc planned to be part of this "standard" or will it be
not very portable and therefore should belong under the Microsoft.*
namespace?

Thanks

Nov 15 '05 #2
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths, P/Invoke
to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less compatible).
That to me indicates NON STANDARD.
"Rob Tillie" <Ro********@student.tul.edu> wrote in message
news:#3**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
You can look at ISO and ECMA in the specs what is standardized.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/

Mainly the CLR and the System namespace I believe.
Well, Mono is trying to get an exact behaviour in porting almost any
namespace, wo that shouldn't be a problem.

Greetz,
-- Rob.

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Hi,

What is the status on the "standardization" (outside MS) of the
BCLs?

Is everything under the System namespace going to be "standard" and
everything under the Microsoft namespace custom per MS specific and
in general Vendor.* namespaces for vendor specific classes.

Is WinForms etc planned to be part of this "standard" or will it be
not very portable and therefore should belong under the Microsoft.*
namespace?

Thanks


Nov 15 '05 #3
AFIAK, the ECMA standards do not in any way cover Winforms.

-cd

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.
"Rob Tillie" <Ro********@student.tul.edu> wrote in message
news:#3**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
You can look at ISO and ECMA in the specs what is standardized.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/

Mainly the CLR and the System namespace I believe.
Well, Mono is trying to get an exact behaviour in porting almost any
namespace, wo that shouldn't be a problem.

Greetz,
-- Rob.

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Hi,

What is the status on the "standardization" (outside MS) of the
BCLs?

Is everything under the System namespace going to be "standard"
and everything under the Microsoft namespace custom per MS
specific and in general Vendor.* namespaces for vendor specific
classes.

Is WinForms etc planned to be part of this "standard" or will it
be not very portable and therefore should belong under the
Microsoft.* namespace?

Thanks

Nov 15 '05 #4
Hi,

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.


Standards are not the problem (not the only problem, anyway). There is quite
a lot of Windows Forms functionality that requires P/Invoke or WndProc
overrides to get to. These cannot be compatible with linux (they use builtin
windows dll's or procedures). This is why wine is the best way to go atm for
compatibility.

Pete
Nov 15 '05 #5
Then why the heck are they under the System.* namespace and not Microsoft.*?
"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]" <cp******@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in message
news:Ov**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
AFIAK, the ECMA standards do not in any way cover Winforms.

-cd

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.
"Rob Tillie" <Ro********@student.tul.edu> wrote in message
news:#3**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
You can look at ISO and ECMA in the specs what is standardized.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/

Mainly the CLR and the System namespace I believe.
Well, Mono is trying to get an exact behaviour in porting almost any
namespace, wo that shouldn't be a problem.

Greetz,
-- Rob.

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Hi,

What is the status on the "standardization" (outside MS) of the
BCLs?

Is everything under the System namespace going to be "standard"
and everything under the Microsoft namespace custom per MS
specific and in general Vendor.* namespaces for vendor specific
classes.

Is WinForms etc planned to be part of this "standard" or will it
be not very portable and therefore should belong under the
Microsoft.* namespace?

Thanks


Nov 15 '05 #6
So why the heck are they in teh System.* namespace and NOT the Microsoft.*
(ie., VendorSpecific.* ) namespaces?

Recipe for disaster

"Peter Vidler" <pv*****@gawab.com> wrote in message
news:FM******************@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
Hi,

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.
Standards are not the problem (not the only problem, anyway). There is

quite a lot of Windows Forms functionality that requires P/Invoke or WndProc
overrides to get to. These cannot be compatible with linux (they use builtin windows dll's or procedures). This is why wine is the best way to go atm for compatibility.

Pete

Nov 15 '05 #7
Wild guess -

Because the hierarchy of namespaces was put together before the decision to
submit the BCL and CLR to ECMA was finalized. I suppose they could have
chosen the typical Java solution - duplicate everything into another
namespace and deprecate it in the System namespace, while retaining it
forever for backwards compatibility.

-cd

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Then why the heck are they under the System.* namespace and not
Microsoft.*?
"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]" <cp******@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in message
news:Ov**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
AFIAK, the ECMA standards do not in any way cover Winforms.


Nov 15 '05 #8
Umpa Lumpa wrote:
|| So why the heck are they in teh System.* namespace and NOT the
|| Microsoft.* (ie., VendorSpecific.* ) namespaces?
||
|| Recipe for disaster
||

Please take some time and read the standard documents. The standard defines profiles and libraries,namespace names are not part of
the standard.

Willy.
Nov 15 '05 #9
I suggest they change it or make it portable.

"Umpa Lumpa" <po********@127.0.0.129> wrote in message
news:e1**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
So why the heck are they in teh System.* namespace and NOT the Microsoft.*
(ie., VendorSpecific.* ) namespaces?

Recipe for disaster

"Peter Vidler" <pv*****@gawab.com> wrote in message
news:FM******************@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
Hi,

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.


Standards are not the problem (not the only problem, anyway). There is

quite
a lot of Windows Forms functionality that requires P/Invoke or WndProc
overrides to get to. These cannot be compatible with linux (they use

builtin
windows dll's or procedures). This is why wine is the best way to go atm

for
compatibility.

Pete


Nov 15 '05 #10
Then again what is to stop somebody implementing a method by method feature
by feature replacemetn that IS portable as System.WinForms.blah .dll?
"Umpa Lumpa" <po********@127.0.0.129> wrote in message
news:e1**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
So why the heck are they in teh System.* namespace and NOT the Microsoft.*
(ie., VendorSpecific.* ) namespaces?

Recipe for disaster

"Peter Vidler" <pv*****@gawab.com> wrote in message
news:FM******************@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
Hi,

Umpa Lumpa wrote:
My concern is WinForms etc because on MONO that is taking 2 paths,
P/Invoke to win32 (and therefore WINE dependant) and GTK# (but less
compatible). That to me indicates NON STANDARD.


Standards are not the problem (not the only problem, anyway). There is

quite
a lot of Windows Forms functionality that requires P/Invoke or WndProc
overrides to get to. These cannot be compatible with linux (they use

builtin
windows dll's or procedures). This is why wine is the best way to go atm

for
compatibility.

Pete


Nov 15 '05 #11
Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Then why the heck are they under the System.* namespace and not
Microsoft.*?


It shouldn't matter what namespace is chosen. When using types in a program,
the type not only includes the namespace but also the name of the assembly.
This is a huge improvement over previous standards choices. Reserving a
namespace for the purpose of a standard is an easy way to create a mess.

Because the namespace of a type includes the assembly name, several
assemblies (even in the same program) can use the same namespace name with
completely different types. It does not hinder the progress of other library
vendors.

If you are concerned about ensuring your program is portable using only the
features of the ECMA and ISO standards, you can build and run the program
with the Shared Source CLI implementation.

Of course, I don't work on the frameworks, so I can't say with any authority
as to why they chose the namespaces they did. All I can say is that it
shouldn't have any impact on developers, they should just be usable.

Cheerio!

--
Brandon Bray Visual C++ Compiler
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Nov 15 '05 #12
People are under the impression WinForms is portable , yet it is not the
case. (100%).
"Brandon Bray [MSFT]" <br******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:eY**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Umpa Lumpa wrote:
Then why the heck are they under the System.* namespace and not
Microsoft.*?
It shouldn't matter what namespace is chosen. When using types in a

program, the type not only includes the namespace but also the name of the assembly. This is a huge improvement over previous standards choices. Reserving a
namespace for the purpose of a standard is an easy way to create a mess.

Because the namespace of a type includes the assembly name, several
assemblies (even in the same program) can use the same namespace name with
completely different types. It does not hinder the progress of other library vendors.

If you are concerned about ensuring your program is portable using only the features of the ECMA and ISO standards, you can build and run the program
with the Shared Source CLI implementation.

Of course, I don't work on the frameworks, so I can't say with any authority as to why they chose the namespaces they did. All I can say is that it
shouldn't have any impact on developers, they should just be usable.

Cheerio!

--
Brandon Bray Visual C++ Compiler
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Nov 15 '05 #13

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

0
by: MarionEll | last post by:
XML 2003 Interoperability Demonstrations to Showcase Industry Standards, Integrated Vendor Solutions Alexandria, VA – Nov. 19, 2003 – IDEAlliance, a leading trade association dedicated...
162
by: Isaac Grover | last post by:
Hi everyone, Just out of curiosity I recently pointed one of my hand-typed pages at the W3 Validator, and my hand-typed code was just ripped to shreds. Then I pointed some major sites...
4
by: dotNetDave | last post by:
About three weeks ago I released the first .NET coding standards book titled "VSDN Tips & Tricks .NET Coding Standards". Here is what the famous author/ speaker Deborah Kurata says about it: ...
17
by: Ian | last post by:
Hi there, Can anybody tell me where I can find a standards documents like you have in c#. I am trying to write javascript and would like to know what standards are i.e. Where to put the...
23
by: Mario T. Lanza | last post by:
I have been authoring web sites for several years now and recently come to value web standards (as touted by Zeldman and many other web gurus). I have noticed with frustration that there are so...
250
by: Sugapablo | last post by:
Just out of curiosity, while checking on a site I was working on, I decided to throw a couple of the web's most popular URLs into the W3C Markup Validator. Out of microsoft.com, google.com,...
115
by: junky_fellow | last post by:
What is a C object ? If i have some function "func()" in my C program, then can i say that "func()" is a C object ? or if i have some function pointer (ptr) which contains the address of...
9
by: Jason Gogela | last post by:
Does anyone out there know why I should care whether a <span> is nested in a <p> or vice versa? What is the bennafit of adhering to this standard? It seems to me that regardless of which way you...
3
by: editormt | last post by:
A recent poll asked if programming standards are used by development organisations... and if they are controlled. None: 20% Yes, but without control: 49% Yes, with control: 31% Participants:...
53
by: Jim Cook | last post by:
I previously had asked if there was an online standards file so I could read that and answer my own questions without posting here and getting flamed for not having done my homework. I was...
0
by: DolphinDB | last post by:
Tired of spending countless mintues downsampling your data? Look no further! In this article, you’ll learn how to efficiently downsample 6.48 billion high-frequency records to 61 million...
0
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe meeting will be on Wednesday 6 Mar 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM). In this month's session, we are pleased to welcome back...
0
by: Vimpel783 | last post by:
Hello! Guys, I found this code on the Internet, but I need to modify it a little. It works well, the problem is this: Data is sent from only one cell, in this case B5, but it is necessary that data...
0
by: jfyes | last post by:
As a hardware engineer, after seeing that CEIWEI recently released a new tool for Modbus RTU Over TCP/UDP filtering and monitoring, I actively went to its official website to take a look. It turned...
1
by: PapaRatzi | last post by:
Hello, I am teaching myself MS Access forms design and Visual Basic. I've created a table to capture a list of Top 30 singles and forms to capture new entries. The final step is a form (unbound)...
1
by: Defcon1945 | last post by:
I'm trying to learn Python using Pycharm but import shutil doesn't work
0
by: af34tf | last post by:
Hi Guys, I have a domain whose name is BytesLimited.com, and I want to sell it. Does anyone know about platforms that allow me to list my domain in auction for free. Thank you
0
by: Faith0G | last post by:
I am starting a new it consulting business and it's been a while since I setup a new website. Is wordpress still the best web based software for hosting a 5 page website? The webpages will be...
0
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 3 Apr 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome former...

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.