Requesting Suggestions For C# VS .NET Books And Question About Required Run-times

[noid droid]

Hi. I posted yesterday asking if C# lived up to the hype. Thus far the
feedback has been all positive. (Thanks.)

Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio .NET
IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great. Also, is
it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework that wouldn't
also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a book that'll get me
up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything I need to know about
the .NET framework, that would be great.

My background:

Mostly hobby programming. I do light VB programming for work
occaisionally.

I know and have a good grasp of VB. I know C++ well enough to code, read
other's code, and do what I need to do with appropriate reference
material. I do only Windows programming.

Another question:

I know that in order to run a VB program on a computer, the VB run-time
library must be installed. Likewise, C++ MFC programs require the MFC
libraries.

Do Visual C++ 6.0 programs require any libraries to run?

I know VC# will require libraries to be installed to run, but do VC++ 7
programs require libraries as well?

Do all programs created with Visual Studio .NET require the .NET
framework to be installed on a computer to run?

Any feedback about suggested C# & IDE tutorial/reference books, and any
info about required run-times will be *greatly* appreciated.

Thanks.

[Glen Jones MCSD]

We all have our perferred publishers/authors but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Wrox Press:
C# Beginning
C# Professional
C# Programmers Referance

I have about 20 of them but these are the ones I have found to be the best.

--
Glen Jones MCSD

"noid droid" <noiddroid> wrote in message
news:1c******************************@news.teranew s.com...

Hi. I posted yesterday asking if C# lived up to the hype. Thus far the
feedback has been all positive. (Thanks.)

Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio .NET
IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great. Also, is
it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework that wouldn't
also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a book that'll get me
up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything I need to know about
the .NET framework, that would be great.

My background:

Mostly hobby programming. I do light VB programming for work
occaisionally.

I know and have a good grasp of VB. I know C++ well enough to code, read
other's code, and do what I need to do with appropriate reference
material. I do only Windows programming.

Another question:

I know that in order to run a VB program on a computer, the VB run-time
library must be installed. Likewise, C++ MFC programs require the MFC
libraries.

Do Visual C++ 6.0 programs require any libraries to run?

I know VC# will require libraries to be installed to run, but do VC++ 7
programs require libraries as well?

Do all programs created with Visual Studio .NET require the .NET
framework to be installed on a computer to run?

Any feedback about suggested C# & IDE tutorial/reference books, and any
info about required run-times will be *greatly* appreciated.

Thanks.

[Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]]

noid droid,

See inline (some contents cut for clairity):

Another question:

I know that in order to run a VB program on a computer, the VB run-time
library must be installed. Likewise, C++ MFC programs require the MFC
libraries.
It should be mentioned that this is for VB6 and earlier versions.

Do Visual C++ 6.0 programs require any libraries to run?
Aside from the libraries that you dynamically linked to (DLLs) and any
other components (COM for example), the only other thing you might need is
the C runtime, but that should be distributed to every computer on the
planet by now. Also, if you are using ATL, you might require ATL.dll.

I know VC# will require libraries to be installed to run, but do VC++ 7
programs require libraries as well?
VC++ 7 programs have the same requirements as above, UNLESS they are
using components from the .NET framework, either through some sort of mixed
managed/unmanaged environment, or they are pure managed code. In the former
case, what is mentioned above applies, and you need the framework installed.
For pure managed C++ apps, you need just the framework. For any managed
application, you need the framework.

Do all programs created with Visual Studio .NET require the .NET
framework to be installed on a computer to run?
Technically, no, because you can create unmanaged applications in C++
with VS.NET. However, for VB, C#, Managed C++, basically any managed
language, you need the framework.

Any feedback about suggested C# & IDE tutorial/reference books, and any
info about required run-times will be *greatly* appreciated.
As for the books mentioned, to be honest, while I used to like Wrox's
books in the past, there are many people who think (myself included) that
they dropped the ball with their .NET books. Personally, I think the best
information out there is the framework SDK itself, but that's just me.

Hope this helps.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard.caspershouse.com

Thanks.

[Morten Wennevik]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:00:37 GMT, noid droid <noiddroid> wrote:

Hi. I posted yesterday asking if C# lived up to the hype. Thus far the
feedback has been all positive. (Thanks.)
Np.
Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio .NET
IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great. Also,is
it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework that wouldn't
also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a book that'll getme
up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything I need to know about
the .NET framework, that would be great.

My background:

Mostly hobby programming. I do light VB programming for work
occaisionally.

I know and have a good grasp of VB. I know C++ well enough to code, read
other's code, and do what I need to do with appropriate reference
material. I do only Windows programming.
Well, if you know C++ there isn't much in C# you don't already know, so
the language is easy enough to learn, most books should do this fairly
well. If you also have a decent grasp on object oriented programming you
are all set (this seems to be the major step for many new .NET learners
since .NET is strictly objects, and nothing but objects, basically). What
takes time is getting to know the framework. VS7 will help you there with
it's intellisense.
Another question:

I know that in order to run a VB program on a computer, the VB run-time
library must be installed. Likewise, C++ MFC programs require the MFC
libraries.

Do Visual C++ 6.0 programs require any libraries to run?
Can't say.
I know VC# will require libraries to be installed to run, but do VC++ 7
programs require libraries as well?
No different than C++ 6.0, but C++.NET will require .NET Framework.
Do all programs created with Visual Studio .NET require the .NET
framework to be installed on a computer to run?
No
You can create regular Win32 and MFC programs that have nothing to do
..NET. I don't believe there are any restrictions imposed on VS7 vs VS6.
Any feedback about suggested C# & IDE tutorial/reference books, and any
info about required run-times will be *greatly* appreciated.

Thanks.

There is only 1 required run-time library you need to worry about when
beginning C# and that is the dotnexfx install file :) Compare it to a
game requiring DirectX 9 to run. C# requires .NET Framework to run.

About the books, those aren't what I know best. I've read a few but not
enough to know if there are any better books. ("Microsoft Visual C# .NET
Step by Step" and the three certification books for MCSD.NET by Microsoft
(+ the Microsoft Solutions Framework book (I do not recommend this one))
Windows, Web and Xml which were ok)

Happy Coding!

Morten

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
For a laugh, try web browsing with Opera's User Mode and Nostalgia enabled

[Evan Stone]

Hello noid,

Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio .NET
IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great. Also, is
it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework that wouldn't
also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a book that'll get me
up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything I need to know about
the .NET framework, that would be great.

Since we're all throwing in suggestions here...

Since I'm a long-time VB developer, I wanted something that would bring me
up to speed with .NET and some of the important aspects of migrating to the
"new way of thinking."

I found Daniel Appleman's "Migrating to VB.NET - Strategies, Concepts, and
Code" to be *extremely* helpful in bridging the gap, since he goes on the
premise that one has experience in VB and is moving to the .NET platform. I
really like his writing style; I just wish he'd rewrite the book with a C#
angle. However, all the topics he discusses are equally valuable whether
you're doing VB.NET or C#.NET.

Then, I've decided to use the following three publications (in the following
order):

1. Sams Teach Yourself C# in 24 Hours - OK, this is basically Sam's
equivalent of a "...For Dummies" book, but for my purposes, I just wanted
something that would give me a basic tour of VS.NET, expose me to some
simple sample applications just to get my feet wet. For that particular
purpose it's working well. That, coupled with the fact that I was able to
get it for about $3 used on Amazon. ;)

Unfortunately, I have one major complaint about the book: consistently the
author refers to "C#" when he *really* means "Visual Studio .NET," so you
have to mentally do an Find and Replace on the terms. Once you understand
what he really means, things make a bit more sense. I will be giving
feedback to the author about that issue at some point.

2. Visual C# .NET Step-By-Step (2003 Version) - This book seems like it's
geared more toward intermediate developers, not total newbies unlike the 24
Hours book. I really like the way it's structured, and it covers a wide
array of topics.

3. Inside C# (Second Edition) - This seems to be a more hardcore reference,
even getting into examining the MSIL that is created when you compile your
apps, but it's well written, and I've heard others highly recommend it.

Additionally, I also read through a large portion of Charles Petzold's
"Programming in the Key of C#" at a local bookstore/coffeehouse, and this
book might be a really good text for you too. A great introduction to C# -
not too heavy. I purchased it from Amazon today for $13.

All five texts have really helped me on my journey in various ways. I just
got laid off two weeks ago, and I'm retraining myself - now that I have some
more time - moving from the realm of VB6/COM to C#/.NET.

Hope this helps!

Evan Stone | Petaluma, CA
----------------------------------------------
Seasoned VB Developer
C#/.NET Padawan Learner

[noid droid]

"Evan Stone" <as**@zxcvb.org> wrote in
news:uZ**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

Hello noid,

Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio
.NET IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great.
Also, is it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework
that wouldn't also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a
book that'll get me up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything
I need to know about the .NET framework, that would be great.

Since we're all throwing in suggestions here...

Since I'm a long-time VB developer, I wanted something that would
bring me up to speed with .NET and some of the important aspects of
migrating to the "new way of thinking."

I found Daniel Appleman's "Migrating to VB.NET - Strategies, Concepts,
and Code" to be *extremely* helpful in bridging the gap, since he goes
on the premise that one has experience in VB and is moving to the .NET
platform. I really like his writing style; I just wish he'd rewrite
the book with a C# angle. However, all the topics he discusses are
equally valuable whether you're doing VB.NET or C#.NET.

Then, I've decided to use the following three publications (in the
following order):

1. Sams Teach Yourself C# in 24 Hours - OK, this is basically Sam's
equivalent of a "...For Dummies" book, but for my purposes, I just
wanted something that would give me a basic tour of VS.NET, expose me
to some simple sample applications just to get my feet wet. For that
particular purpose it's working well. That, coupled with the fact that
I was able to get it for about $3 used on Amazon. ;)

Unfortunately, I have one major complaint about the book: consistently
the author refers to "C#" when he *really* means "Visual Studio .NET,"
so you have to mentally do an Find and Replace on the terms. Once you
understand what he really means, things make a bit more sense. I will
be giving feedback to the author about that issue at some point.

2. Visual C# .NET Step-By-Step (2003 Version) - This book seems like
it's geared more toward intermediate developers, not total newbies
unlike the 24 Hours book. I really like the way it's structured, and
it covers a wide array of topics.

3. Inside C# (Second Edition) - This seems to be a more hardcore
reference, even getting into examining the MSIL that is created when
you compile your apps, but it's well written, and I've heard others
highly recommend it.

Additionally, I also read through a large portion of Charles Petzold's
"Programming in the Key of C#" at a local bookstore/coffeehouse, and
this book might be a really good text for you too. A great
introduction to C# - not too heavy. I purchased it from Amazon today
for $13.

All five texts have really helped me on my journey in various ways. I
just got laid off two weeks ago, and I'm retraining myself - now that
I have some more time - moving from the realm of VB6/COM to C#/.NET.

Hope this helps!

Evan Stone | Petaluma, CA
----------------------------------------------
Seasoned VB Developer
C#/.NET Padawan Learner

You've helped me tremendously!

Your #1 & #2 suggestions--I put those on my Amazon "wish list". Hell, if
you can get books for $5, you haven't much to lose. For some books, the
shipping costs more than the book.

Buying a computer book is always a risk. A few years ago, when I was
learning VB, I went to the library for my instructional books. I quickly
discovered that different books cover things differently, if at all. To
plug all the gaps, I'd checkout numerous books. I've purchased a few
books and later wished I hadn't spent the $40.

I know C++, so I don't think I need to start learning programming concept
from scratch. I do need to learn about the .NET framework. Also, I want
some advanced knowledge.

I appreciate you taking the time to provide suggested books and feedback
about the books. It really helps.

I bought #1 - #3 from Amazon that you suggested above. They are all
pretty cheap.

I also got 5 other books about VB.NET and C#.NET. They were all in the
$3 - $4 range. If I don't like them, I didn't lose much and I can give
them to the library and someone else can learn from them.

Thanks again for your feedback.

noid

[Evan Stone]

Comments Inline:

You've helped me tremendously!
Awesome - glad to help! We're all in the same boat (er, at least some of us
are... ;)
Your #1 & #2 suggestions--I put those on my Amazon "wish list". Hell, if
you can get books for $5, you haven't much to lose. For some books, the
shipping costs more than the book.
Yeah that's what I figured too, that's why I went for it. I pretty much am
blasting through the 24 Hours book, but no worries. It's all good
information to have and it just reinforces what I already know. Plus there
are a few good tips here & there as well.
Buying a computer book is always a risk.
Indeed. Especially when they're $40-60 a pop! I only buy used/remainder
books now from Amazon - especially now that I can't really afford the
expense of list prices.
A few years ago, when I was
learning VB, I went to the library for my instructional books. I quickly
discovered that different books cover things differently, if at all. To
plug all the gaps, I'd checkout numerous books.
Exactly. You kinda have to diversify to get good coverage, but thankfully
there are good books out there. Usually the publisher is a key identifier of
a good/bad book, but that's not always the case.
I've purchased a few
books and later wished I hadn't spent the $40.
If you got away with just spending $40 you should be thankful. ;)

My latest methodology is to go to Borders, grab a stack of books, get a cup
of coffee (refillable), and sit down and peruse through the stack.
I know C++, so I don't think I need to start learning programming concept
from scratch. I do need to learn about the .NET framework. Also, I want
some advanced knowledge.
Yes - I come from the VB background with the same intentions.
I appreciate you taking the time to provide suggested books and feedback
about the books. It really helps.
No problem! Glad to be of service!
I bought #1 - #3 from Amazon that you suggested above. They are all
pretty cheap.
Cool - I hope you like them. They're pretty decent books from what I've read
so far, and they do have a pretty good range (beginner, intermediate,
advanced), so they should work out well for you.
I also got 5 other books about VB.NET and C#.NET. They were all in the
$3 - $4 range. If I don't like them, I didn't lose much and I can give
them to the library and someone else can learn from them.

Sounds like a good plan! Hopefully they'll help you out to some degree, at
least... and if not you, then someone else!

:)

Evan Stone | Petaluma, CA
----------------------------------------------
C#/.NET Padawan Learner

[noid droid]

"Evan Stone" <as**@zxcvb.org> wrote in
news:Og**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

Comments Inline:

You've helped me tremendously!

Awesome - glad to help! We're all in the same boat (er, at least some
of us are... ;)

Your #1 & #2 suggestions--I put those on my Amazon "wish list".
Hell, if you can get books for $5, you haven't much to lose. For
some books, the shipping costs more than the book.

Yeah that's what I figured too, that's why I went for it. I pretty
much am blasting through the 24 Hours book, but no worries. It's all
good information to have and it just reinforces what I already know.
Plus there are a few good tips here & there as well.

Well, I've now bought a total of 12 books off Amazon Marketplace in the
past week and I've spent just over $100.

I got one HTML book for $1.69! It's only 2 years old. I got a number of
books under $5.

You get a year or two out on some of these books and the price just drops
like a rock. But, even though they're a couple years old, the data is
still relevant for what I'm using them for. And probably will be
relevant for the next couple of years.

Petzold's "Programming Windows 5th Ed" came out in late 1998. But it is
still relevant and people still buy it. I just picked that up about a
year ago, myself.

noid

[clintonG]

I'm a big WROX fan myself but I would also recommend the
QUE MCAD Training Guides. Our study group which consists
of highly experienced occupational programmers -- besides me
that is ;-) -- chose QUE because they not only prepare us for
the cert the training guides cover each and every issue related
to using the framework to develop ASP.NET, Windows Forms,
and XML Web Services covering the bases such as deployment
and so on.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
NET cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

LaGarde StoreFront 5 Affiliate: e-Commerce Solutions
SEE: http://www.storefront.net/default.as...RER=-201499070

"Glen Jones MCSD" <gl********@mailhot.com> wrote in message
news:C7********************@comcast.com...

We all have our perferred publishers/authors but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Wrox Press:
C# Beginning
C# Professional
C# Programmers Referance

I have about 20 of them but these are the ones I have found to be the best.
--
Glen Jones MCSD

"noid droid" <noiddroid> wrote in message
news:1c******************************@news.teranew s.com...

Hi. I posted yesterday asking if C# lived up to the hype. Thus far the
feedback has been all positive. (Thanks.)

Can anyone suggest GOOD books for learning C# and the Visual Studio .NET
IDE? If there is a book that covers both, that would be great. Also, is it necessary for me to learn a lot about the .NET framework that wouldn't also be covered in one of the books? If I can find a book that'll get me up and running with the IDE and C#, plus anything I need to know about
the .NET framework, that would be great.

My background:

Mostly hobby programming. I do light VB programming for work
occaisionally.

I know and have a good grasp of VB. I know C++ well enough to code, read other's code, and do what I need to do with appropriate reference
material. I do only Windows programming.

Another question:

I know that in order to run a VB program on a computer, the VB run-time
library must be installed. Likewise, C++ MFC programs require the MFC
libraries.

Do Visual C++ 6.0 programs require any libraries to run?

I know VC# will require libraries to be installed to run, but do VC++ 7
programs require libraries as well?

Do all programs created with Visual Studio .NET require the .NET
framework to be installed on a computer to run?

Any feedback about suggested C# & IDE tutorial/reference books, and any
info about required run-times will be *greatly* appreciated.

Thanks.