Hi,
It would be nice and a natural way to use a property set by permitting it
to be set via a REF parameter on a method call.
Why this isnt being allowed is beyond me, yes I know they are wrappers for
get_ and set_ methods but if they are there to give the impression of a
FIELD, then they should have all the functionality of a field and not some
half brained implementation.
Thanks.
13  3039 
<di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote: It would be nice and a natural way to use a property set by permitting it
to be set via a REF parameter on a method call.
I'm afraid I don't agree...
Why this isnt being allowed is beyond me, yes I know they are wrappers for
get_ and set_ methods but if they are there to give the impression of a
FIELD, then they should have all the functionality of a field and not some
half brained implementation.
No, because they're simply *not* fields. Passing a variable by
reference creates another variable with the same memory slot - that
just isn't how properties work. Developers should have a clear view
that properties are really methods in disguise rather than fields in
disguise.
Passing variables by reference should usually be avoided anyway, to be
honest - it's usually a sign of a method trying to do too much.
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
They are giving the impression of fields, thats why we can do a
SomeObj.SomeProperty = someValue just like a field assignment, same for get
someVal = SomeObj.SomeProperty; again justlike a FIELD.
They maybe implemented as methods, but thats not our problem as a developer
calling them, thats a lower level.
They are there to give more extensibility to fields and a greater way to
control fields.
They are wrappers for fields (conceptually), and wrappers for methods
(implentation).
So Yes, they are there to give an impression of fields.
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote: It would be nice and a natural way to use a property set by permitting
it to be set via a REF parameter on a method call.
I'm afraid I don't agree...
Why this isnt being allowed is beyond me, yes I know they are wrappers
for get_ and set_ methods but if they are there to give the impression of a
FIELD, then they should have all the functionality of a field and not
some half brained implementation.
No, because they're simply *not* fields. Passing a variable by
reference creates another variable with the same memory slot - that
just isn't how properties work. Developers should have a clear view
that properties are really methods in disguise rather than fields in
disguise.
Passing variables by reference should usually be avoided anyway, to be
honest - it's usually a sign of a method trying to do too much.
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
<di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote: They are giving the impression of fields, thats why we can do a
SomeObj.SomeProperty = someValue just like a field assignment, same for get
someVal = SomeObj.SomeProperty; again justlike a FIELD.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they should (or do) behave like fields in
every possible way.
They maybe implemented as methods, but thats not our problem as a developer
calling them, thats a lower level.
No it's not, really. It's all in the C# specification. Properties *are*
just methods in disguise, and any developer who doesn't get to grips
with that is going to get confused. For instance, have you ever heard
of a field you can assign to but not use the value of? And yet there
are properties which only have setters but no getters. Similarly,
straight assignment can't throw exceptions etc.
They are there to give more extensibility to fields and a greater way to
control fields.
They are wrappers for fields (conceptually), and wrappers for methods
(implentation).
No, they are wrappers for the state of the object, which needn't be
represented by fields.
So Yes, they are there to give an impression of fields.
They're there to give the easy syntax of fields, but that doesn't mean
they should be regarded as fields.
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
You're a tard in disguise.
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote: They are giving the impression of fields, thats why we can do a
SomeObj.SomeProperty = someValue just like a field assignment, same for
get someVal = SomeObj.SomeProperty; again justlike a FIELD.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they should (or do) behave like fields in
every possible way.
They maybe implemented as methods, but thats not our problem as a
developer calling them, thats a lower level.
No it's not, really. It's all in the C# specification. Properties *are*
just methods in disguise, and any developer who doesn't get to grips
with that is going to get confused. For instance, have you ever heard
of a field you can assign to but not use the value of? And yet there
are properties which only have setters but no getters. Similarly,
straight assignment can't throw exceptions etc.
They are there to give more extensibility to fields and a greater way to
control fields.
They are wrappers for fields (conceptually), and wrappers for methods
(implentation).
No, they are wrappers for the state of the object, which needn't be
represented by fields.
So Yes, they are there to give an impression of fields.
They're there to give the easy syntax of fields, but that doesn't mean
they should be regarded as fields.
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
<di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... You're a tard in disguise.
and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
/Kim
And i care?
"Kim Nørby Andersen" <kn*@removethis.multihouse.dk> wrote in message
news:uY**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... You're a tard in disguise.
and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
/Kim
Discussion@,
When you set a field, say; x = 3; the field is set, period.
When you set a property, alot of work can be done;
for example;
myObject.x = 3
inside myObject...
public property x
{
set
{
if(value == something)
{
call some method;
call another method;
}
else if(value == something else)
{
call some other method;
}
else
{
throw ThisValueIsRealyBadException;
}
}
}
you cant do that by just setting a field.
Properties aren't just for LowLevel programmers. Anyone who has to derive a
class or who creates custom Textbox because he/she needs more functionality
would need to know this.
Marco
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote: They are giving the impression of fields, thats why we can do a
SomeObj.SomeProperty = someValue just like a field assignment, same for
get someVal = SomeObj.SomeProperty; again justlike a FIELD.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they should (or do) behave like fields in
every possible way.
They maybe implemented as methods, but thats not our problem as a
developer calling them, thats a lower level.
No it's not, really. It's all in the C# specification. Properties *are*
just methods in disguise, and any developer who doesn't get to grips
with that is going to get confused. For instance, have you ever heard
of a field you can assign to but not use the value of? And yet there
are properties which only have setters but no getters. Similarly,
straight assignment can't throw exceptions etc.
They are there to give more extensibility to fields and a greater way to
control fields.
They are wrappers for fields (conceptually), and wrappers for methods
(implentation).
No, they are wrappers for the state of the object, which needn't be
represented by fields.
So Yes, they are there to give an impression of fields.
They're there to give the easy syntax of fields, but that doesn't mean
they should be regarded as fields.
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too di********@discussion.microsoft.com wrote: Hi,
It would be nice and a natural way to use a property set by
permitting it to be set via a REF parameter on a method call.
Why this isnt being allowed is beyond me, yes I know they are
wrappers for get_ and set_ methods but if they are there to give the
impression of a FIELD, then they should have all the functionality of
a field and not some half brained implementation.
The normal reason for doing what you want is that the type of a value is
large, so passing a reference to it, rather than a copy of the value, is
faster and more memory efficient. However properties are almost always small
values, essentially value types of built-in types, so passing references is
unnecessary. Finally properties themselves do not hold references, and do
not even have to relate to actual data values, so there is no reason to pass
a reference to set them as if they were references to objects.
As others have mentioned, although a property may be thought of as a data
value, or a field in .NET terms, it doesn't have to be one at all.
Well, I guess the lesson here is to always answer questions with what we think
the person wants to hear instead of what we actually think - or just not
answer questions at all because we're sure to just get bitchy attitute in
return. Yeah, that's how I like to spend my time - generously trying to
answer questions of someone who's probably going to call me names.
Ah - Usenet.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:44:10 +0100, <di********@discussion.microsoft.com>
wrote: And i care?
"Kim Nørby Andersen" <kn*@removethis.multihouse.dk> wrote in message
news:uY**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... > You're a tard in disguise.
and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
/Kim
Steve,
Most of us, with the exception of a chosen few, really appreciate the
efforts taken to answer questions.
Thank you.
Marco
"Steve Jorgensen" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:06********************************@4ax.com... Well, I guess the lesson here is to always answer questions with what we
think the person wants to hear instead of what we actually think - or just not
answer questions at all because we're sure to just get bitchy attitute in
return. Yeah, that's how I like to spend my time - generously trying to
answer questions of someone who's probably going to call me names.
Ah - Usenet.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:44:10 +0100, <di********@discussion.microsoft.com>
wrote:
And i care?
"Kim Nørby Andersen" <kn*@removethis.multihouse.dk> wrote in message
news:uY**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> You're a tard in disguise.
and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
/Kim
Hi Steve,
I think that we should always answer when we can, these post are archives
all over the web, especially in google so these answers become part of the
public knowledge. It does not matter if the asker answer or just as this
case behave childish cause somebody else rebate his point of view.
The answer of Jon is a good explanation of where the properties sits
between methods and fields, Thank jon, that was a clever description of
them.
The rest was just a waste of bandwidth.
Cheers,
--
Ignacio Machin,
ignacio.machin AT dot.state.fl.us
Florida Department Of Transportation
"Steve Jorgensen" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:06********************************@4ax.com... Well, I guess the lesson here is to always answer questions with what we
think the person wants to hear instead of what we actually think - or just not
answer questions at all because we're sure to just get bitchy attitute in
return. Yeah, that's how I like to spend my time - generously trying to
answer questions of someone who's probably going to call me names.
Ah - Usenet.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:44:10 +0100, <di********@discussion.microsoft.com>
wrote:
And i care?
"Kim Nørby Andersen" <kn*@removethis.multihouse.dk> wrote in message
news:uY**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> You're a tard in disguise.
and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
/Kim
Actually no, the tard comes out and dictates how we all post on multiple
forums, like he owns the fluckin place. Get real.
He deserves what he gets.
Freakin tard.
"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.machin AT dot.state.fl.us> wrote
in message news:ec**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Hi Steve,
I think that we should always answer when we can, these post are archives
all over the web, especially in google so these answers become part of
the public knowledge. It does not matter if the asker answer or just as this
case behave childish cause somebody else rebate his point of view.
The answer of Jon is a good explanation of where the properties sits
between methods and fields, Thank jon, that was a clever description of
them.
The rest was just a waste of bandwidth.
Cheers,
--
Ignacio Machin,
ignacio.machin AT dot.state.fl.us
Florida Department Of Transportation
"Steve Jorgensen" <no****@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:06********************************@4ax.com... Well, I guess the lesson here is to always answer questions with what we
think the person wants to hear instead of what we actually think - or just not
answer questions at all because we're sure to just get bitchy attitute
in return. Yeah, that's how I like to spend my time - generously trying to
answer questions of someone who's probably going to call me names.
Ah - Usenet.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:44:10 +0100,
<di********@discussion.microsoft.com> wrote:
And i care?
"Kim Nørby Andersen" <kn*@removethis.multihouse.dk> wrote in message
news:uY**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> <di********@discussion.microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > You're a tard in disguise.
>
> and you are not really showing the nicest sides of you... hopefully
>
> /Kim
>
>
>
di********@discussion.microsoft.com wrote: He deserves what he gets.
As will you. A bad attitude is a sure way to get ignored. And your views
on properties having field semantics are totally off the mark.
--
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who
don't. http://code.acadx.com
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