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C# vs. C++

cj
I don't want to start a war but why would I choose one over the other?
First and foremost I need to keep in mind marketability of the skill and
the future of the language.

I'm getting the feeling I'll be moving from VB to one or the other. I
have some say on which but perhaps not the final decision. I have used
C and C++ a little bit years ago. I have no experience in C#. I don't
expect it to be that difficult but I hate remembering the idiosyncrasies
of too many languages so I'd like to pick one C# or C++ and make the
right choice.
Jun 27 '08
151 4300
RFOG wrote:
Then, Alvin, next Windows will be done in C#?
Next OS from MS could very well be done in C#.

But don't hold your breath until it hits the streets.

Arne
Jun 27 '08 #71
Daniel James wrote:
In article news:<48******* *************** *@news.sunsite. dk>, Arne
Vajhøj wrote:
>C# also has abstract classes and even though abstract classes can
be used instead of interfaces, then interfaces especially when
combined with the only inherit from one class but implement
multiple interfaces rules really guide users towards good
OOP style.

I think your notion of "good OOP style" is misplaced. You are saying
what Java programmers have been saying that for some time -- because
Java doesn't give them any choice.

You are, of course, free to follow that convention in C++ -- but if you
do so you will be limiting your design choices.
Good OOP is about limiting choices. You encourage or force
developers to do things the right way.
There is nothing
inherently wrong with allowing a class to inherit from multiple
concrete base classes, and doing so can be a useful way to encapsulate
common aspects of behaviour shared by several classes. This can
simplify design and reduce code sizes.
Multiple inheritance has a rather bad track record.

Arne
Jun 27 '08 #72
On Jun 25, 7:12*am, Arne Vajhøj <a...@vajhoej.d kwrote:
inherently wrong with allowing a class to inherit from multiple
concrete base classes, and doing so can be a useful way to encapsulate
common aspects of behaviour shared by several classes. This can
simplify design and reduce code sizes.

Multiple inheritance has a rather bad track record.
A correction: _implementation _ multiple inheritance _in C++_ has a
rather bad track record. Implementation MI can work just fine if
properly done - Eiffel is a testament to that.

Even so, give me interfaces and syntactic sugar to delegate their
implementation to a wrapped object over implementation MI any day. The
problem is, C# has neither, and writing all those one-liner methods
that just pass the arguments on is tedious. Hm, perhaps it's worth
adding the appropriate feature request to VS Feedback.
Jun 27 '08 #73
cj,

As I often have written

VB for Net and C# are both the children of C++ and VB6.

(The VB6 part will probably be denied by people not knowing VB).

Although there is never made a VB6 for Managed code while that is there for
C++, what is of course helpfull to use both Com and Net programming, as was
often asked by dyhards from VB6, is C# made for developping in an IDE, while
C++ still is based to program using by instance a notepath.

Cor

"cj" <cj@nospam.nosp amschreef in bericht
news:uK******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...
>I don't want to start a war but why would I choose one over the other?
First and foremost I need to keep in mind marketability of the skill and
the future of the language.

I'm getting the feeling I'll be moving from VB to one or the other. I
have some say on which but perhaps not the final decision. I have used C
and C++ a little bit years ago. I have no experience in C#. I don't
expect it to be that difficult but I hate remembering the idiosyncrasies
of too many languages so I'd like to pick one C# or C++ and make the right
choice.

Jun 27 '08 #74
"Arne Vajhøj" <ar**@vajhoej.d kescribió en el mensaje de noticias
news:48******** *************** @news.sunsite.d k...
RFOG wrote:
>Then, Alvin, next Windows will be done in C#?

Next OS from MS could very well be done in C#.
We have a phrase: "confía en Dios y no corras", that will be translated as
"be confident with God and don't run".

Of course, C# can deal with LDT, GDT, vector interrupts, rings, direct
hardware access and of course microprocessors executes MSIL directly(*).
But don't hold your breath until it hits the streets.
:-)

Arne
(*) Please, read as a irony.
--
Microsoft Visual C++ MVP
=============== =========
Mi blog sobre programación: http://geeks.ms/blogs/rfog
Momentos Leves: http://momentosleves.blogspot.com/
Cosas mías: http://rfog.blogsome.com/
Libros, ciencia ficción y programación
=============== =============== ==========
Cualquier problema sencillo se puede convertir en insoluble si se celebran
suficientes reuniones para discutirlo.
-- Regla de Mitchell.

Jun 27 '08 #75
In article news:<48******* *************** *@news.sunsite. dk>, Arne
Vajhøj wrote:
Good OOP is about limiting choices.
No it isn't. It's about a certain kind of encapsulation.

Using OOP is itself a design choice -- a good one in some cases and a
poor one in others.
You encourage or force developers to do things the right way.
Encouragement and forcing are very different games. In solutions that
lend themselves well to OOP the benefits to be gained from OOP are
encouragement enough -- no need for the language to force the issue.

If your solution is not one that naturally lends itself to an OO
approach then forcing people to use a language that steers them
singlemindedly along an OOP path will only engender resentment and bad
programming.
Multiple inheritance has a rather bad track record.
It's certainly easy to use MI badly -- especially in C++, which doesn't
believe in restricting choices unnecessarily -- but that doesn't mean
that isn't a useful technique, or that it can't be used productively
and well.

Cheers,
Daniel.
Jun 27 '08 #76
In article news:<VA******* ***********@nos pam.aaisp.org>, Daniel James
wrote:
Ericsson's telephone exchange software is written in
Haskell, for example.
I meant Erlang, not Haskell, or course -- nice to see nobody here is
sufficiently on the ball to spot my blunder!

Cheers,
Daniel.
Jun 27 '08 #77
Arne Vajhøj wrote:
David Wilkinson wrote:
>C++/CLI as a first class .NET language does indeed appear doomed.
Maybe using C++ for .NET was a bad concept from the beginning, or
maybe it was done in by the flawed initial version of MC++. But,
anyway, it seems dead.

C++/CLI is great for inter-op, but that is a limited market compared
to all the things that C# can do in .NET.

But native C++ lives on, both as a cross platform language, and in
many MFC/Win32 applications that are never going to switch to .NET.
The Visual C++ team is strongly committed to improve the native coding
experience in the next version of Visual Studio, after many years of
neglect.

I tend to agree.

People that want to write managed code chose C# instead of C++/CLI. It
is simply easier.

C++ will most certainly live on for many years.

I am a bit skeptical about MFC though. I think MFC will be
squeezed hard by .NET in the next 10 years. As the UI's need
to get a major rewrite then the apps will switch to .NET !

Arne
The new version of MFC is just great! With the Ribbon, docking windows,
new common controls, MSN menus, and a bunch of other things... I wonder
why Microsoft is investing in MFC, if it is doomed...
Jun 27 '08 #78
Daniel James <wa*********@no spam.aaisp.orgw rote:
It's one of .NET's
significant advantages over Java (intermediate code engine targeted by more
than one source language) but that's about it.
<snip>

Um, there are *plenty* of languages targeting the JVM. Off the top of
my head:

Java (obviously)
Groovy
Scala
JRuby
Jython

That's without even bothering to think. Fortunately Wikipedia allows us
to continue not thinking and expand the list significantly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JVM_Languages

I don't think even that list is exhaustive by a long chalk though.

(Personally I'd say there are plenty of other things that C# has over
the Java language and that .NET has over the JVM/JRE; Java's
portability is its main benefit over .NET in my experience.)

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
Web site: http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon_skeet
C# in Depth: http://csharpindepth.com
Jun 27 '08 #79
Daniel James wrote:
I'm also disappointed that modules won't be in C++0x, but I hope we won't
have to wait too much longer for them.
If I might interrupt for a moment, I think that the *only* true
advantage of using C# rather than C++ is that C# has a big standardized
framework so that programmers have a common high-level layer, so that
they don't have to directly deal with the OS.

C++ should be moving onto something similar, IMHO. As the C++0x is doing
with threads, regex, etc.

I know it's something really difficult, but that's a wish of mine.

Regards.
Jun 27 '08 #80

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