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Bussines objects

Hi!
I'm making a database application and i heard from a friend that it is more
proffecional and easy to do this with bussines objects. Can anyone tell me
where i can find more info on bussines objects and how to implement them
with c#? I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
Nov 16 '05
38 3741
stork <tb******@might yware.com> wrote:
Ever tried XSLT? That's what happens when you try to write code
declaratively. It's a mess.


XSLT fails not because of what it does but because of how it does it.
The syntax is just genuinely aweful!


But I think that's at least partly *because* it's declarative.
Declarations don't sit well with how humans think about step-by-step
logic.
There are some things which are best done declaratively, and some
which are best done imperatively, in my view. Trying to make
everything go either one way or the other is a mistake. Mix and
match to get the best of both worlds.


For right now, I whole heartedly agree. That's why I like to go:

1. User interface design and business requirements
2. data relationships
3. object middle tier in some fashion.

Pretty much for me OOP stuff in C# is the bridge between 1 & 3.


That's pretty reasonable - and a lot of behavioural stuff in 3 is also
best described imperatively, IMO.
Just out of interest, how soon do you think "soon" will be? Fancy
making a prediction we could actually test?


Hey there's no penalty for being wrong, so I'm game!

:-)
Do you think OOP will be
obsolete in 5 years, say?


The first languages to do so will emerge from the labs by then, yes.
But it will be at least another decade after that until declarative
languages are truly everywhere.


So it'll be 15 years before OOP will "go to the dustbin of history"? I
guess we have a different idea of "soon". I think it's quite possible
that OOP will have been overtaken by then - and it'll have had a pretty
good run by computing standards at that stage. I doubt that it'll go to
a purely declarative model though.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Nov 16 '05 #31
TJB replied to:
But I think that's at least partly *because* it's declarative.
Declarations don't sit well with how humans think about step-by-step
logic.
I'd disagree largely because Excel is a declarative system, at least
with respect to formula in cells, and most people prefer to think in
those terms rather than with step by step logic.
That's pretty reasonable - and a lot of behavioural stuff in 3 is also best described imperatively, IMO.
LOL. :-)
So it'll be 15 years before OOP will "go to the dustbin of history"? I guess we have a different idea of "soon". I think it's quite possible that OOP will have been overtaken by then - and it'll have had a pretty good run by computing standards at that stage. I doubt that it'll go to a purely declarative model though.


It probably won't be purely declarative because even in declarative
worlds you have to have a mechanism for adding or subtracting rules
from the system and those are imperative things. Or are they?

But, whatever it is, it will still have braces to indicate logical
groupings, and it will look like some C derived language.

Nov 16 '05 #32
Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:
stork <tb******@might yware.com> wrote:
Ever tried XSLT? That's what happens when you try to write code
declarativel y. It's a mess.


XSLT fails not because of what it does but because of how it does it.
The syntax is just genuinely aweful!

But I think that's at least partly *because* it's declarative.
Declarations don't sit well with how humans think about step-by-step
logic.


No, it's because how normal programmers think: in if, for and switch
statements (or equivalents). XSLT is a functional language, like
miranda, haskell and the like and uses pattern matching, just like for
example miranda does. What I find sad is that XSLT does have these
imperative-esk constructs like a loop, which is completely not fitting
into the language direction. I find XSLT pretty elegant, but indeed it
does take a step back and realizing you're working with a functional
language. Once that's done, (the same 'click' you need to fully
understand prolog IMHO), XSLT is easy.

FB
Nov 16 '05 #33
Frans,

When I saw XSLT the first time I tried it.

And than I decided that the load.Doc and JavaScript did cost me a quarter of
the time and I could do ten times as much with JavaScript to transform a XML
file.

I found it a real enduser solution (generator). I did not take one look
anymore to it and that is a while ago.

(Not discussing that it maybe can be a good tool, my previous text explain
why I stopped with it evaluting it)

:-)

Cor
Nov 16 '05 #34
"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe************ ******@xs4all.n l> a écrit dans le
message de news: O5************* *@TK2MSFTNGP12. phx.gbl...

I'm not even going to continue arguing the OO versus RDB case. I have
previously met RDB zealots who think the world and its problems can all be
solved with RDBs and that OO is a corruption of the one true faith. :-)

You are certainly welcome to your views, but I have found differently.

I am in the business of saving time and effort for software developers and
their companies; every company I have introduced OO frameworks which merely
use RDBs for storage instead of the design of their applications has found
the effort required to create applications diminishes in proportion to the
quality of the OO model instead of their old ways of using the RDB as the
source of design.

YMMV, but that is usually down to the level of competence in good OO design.

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter (TeamB)

Consultant Software Engineer
TeamBUG support for UK-BUG
TeamMM support for ModelMaker
Nov 16 '05 #35
Hey,
if you're interested, read the following:
http://www.asplications.com.au/GenieWhitePaper.pdf. It is most definitely
on your side of the virtues of Object Oriented thinking debate.

"Joanna Carter (TeamB)" <jo*****@nospam forme.com> wrote in message
news:ez******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...
"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe************ ******@xs4all.n l> a écrit dans le
message de news: O5************* *@TK2MSFTNGP12. phx.gbl...

I'm not even going to continue arguing the OO versus RDB case. I have
previously met RDB zealots who think the world and its problems can all be
solved with RDBs and that OO is a corruption of the one true faith. :-)

You are certainly welcome to your views, but I have found differently.

I am in the business of saving time and effort for software developers and
their companies; every company I have introduced OO frameworks which merely use RDBs for storage instead of the design of their applications has found
the effort required to create applications diminishes in proportion to the
quality of the OO model instead of their old ways of using the RDB as the
source of design.

YMMV, but that is usually down to the level of competence in good OO design.
Joanna

--
Joanna Carter (TeamB)

Consultant Software Engineer
TeamBUG support for UK-BUG
TeamMM support for ModelMaker

Nov 16 '05 #36
"Radek Cerny" <ra*********@as plications.nosp am.com.au> a écrit dans le
message de news: u8************* *@TK2MSFTNGP12. phx.gbl...
if you're interested, read the following:
http://www.asplications.com.au/GenieWhitePaper.pdf. It is most definitely
on your side of the virtues of Object Oriented thinking debate.


Interesting, it certainly is on the lines of what I have been doing for
years now :-)

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter
Consultant Software Engineer
Nov 16 '05 #37
Joanna Carter (TeamB) wrote:
"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe************ ******@xs4all.n l> a écrit dans le
message de news: O5************* *@TK2MSFTNGP12. phx.gbl...
I'm not even going to continue arguing the OO versus RDB case. I have
previously met RDB zealots who think the world and its problems can all be
solved with RDBs and that OO is a corruption of the one true faith. :-)
Oh, so now I'm an RDB zealot and I hate OO? geezz...
I am in the business of saving time and effort for software developers and
their companies;
So do I, WITH OO and O/R mapping, but you must have missed that part.
every company I have introduced OO frameworks which merely
use RDBs for storage instead of the design of their applications has found
the effort required to create applications diminishes in proportion to the
quality of the OO model instead of their old ways of using the RDB as the
source of design.
That's great, but I don't see why an RDBMS is suddely useless crap and
should be ignored for the most part. You're using OODB's too?
YMMV, but that is usually down to the level of competence in good OO design.


hahaha, I can only laugh at such a silly implication of the quality of
the software I produce. Come on, you can do better than that.

Frans

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov 16 '05 #38
I totally agree with Frans on this, I have never understood why folks say
that Relational Databases and OO design techniques do not align? I think they
align perfectly and the "methods" are clamped on at run time to implement the
business logic, this argument just does not hold water, it never has at least
for me.

Anyway, There are a lot of very good tools out there to help folks create
business objects or map data entities on top of relational databases, every
time somebody downloads our product or somebody elses and get's turned on to
generating these entities we nudge the development community a tiny step
ahead. We work smarter and build better apps.

Mike Griffin
MyGeneration Software
http://www.mygenerationsoftware.com
Nov 16 '05 #39

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