is asp.net suks or i just missing some secrets ?

[SharpSmith]

hi all
the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
appreciate any opinion
i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
meet performance issues
maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
performance bad
also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
database performance
we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
them everywhere

also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
it just lot faster

i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
that

Thanks much
EV

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

Overuse of viewstate will always cause performance issues so its not
suprising that not using it gives an increase in performance. A good place
to start on working out how to improve things would be to first read up on
how to scale IIS, as it will highlight many of the pitfalls that any
developer or architect, even very experienced ones can fall into.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro....mspx?mfr=true

You'll struggle to find a framework for web development that competes with
..net 2.0. I suggest you stick with it for a while until you learn a bit
more about where problems are occuring and see if you can correct them
rather than abandoning the technology entirely.
--
Regards

John Timney (MVP)
VISIT MY WEBSITE:
http://www.johntimney.com

<Sh********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

hi all
the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
appreciate any opinion
i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
meet performance issues
maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
performance bad
also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
database performance
we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
them everywhere

also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
it just lot faster

i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
that

Thanks much
EV

[JuanTLlibre]

There is no simple answer for your concern.

However, you can download and study this guide :
"Improving .NET Application Performance and Scalability"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...l/scalenet.asp

All the answers you are seeking are in that very complete guide.
Take the time you need to understand the principles explained in it well.

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
===================================

"Sh********@gmail.com" wrote:

hi all
the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
appreciate any opinion
i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
meet performance issues
maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
performance bad
also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
database performance
we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
them everywhere

also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
it just lot faster

i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
that

Thanks much
EV

[SharpSmith]

Thanks John
the title of my topic is little bit provocative and it mean to be cause
i hoped to start some discussion here
i for sure agree with you that asp.net and asp.net2 is very powerful ,
but as with any strong technology is easy to get messy
i would welcome any good web resources/ books about strategies of
building scalable and fast applications with asp.net

Thanks
EV
John Timney (MVP) wrote:

Overuse of viewstate will always cause performance issues so its not
suprising that not using it gives an increase in performance. A good place
to start on working out how to improve things would be to first read up on
how to scale IIS, as it will highlight many of the pitfalls that any
developer or architect, even very experienced ones can fall into.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro....mspx?mfr=true

You'll struggle to find a framework for web development that competes with
.net 2.0. I suggest you stick with it for a while until you learn a bit
more about where problems are occuring and see if you can correct them
rather than abandoning the technology entirely.
--
Regards

John Timney (MVP)
VISIT MY WEBSITE:
http://www.johntimney.com

<Sh********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

hi all
the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
appreciate any opinion
i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
meet performance issues
maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
performance bad
also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
database performance
we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
them everywhere

also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
it just lot faster

i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
that

Thanks much
EV

[SharpSmith]

Thanks Juan
grate book, i not finished yet all of 1150 pages :) but after overview
i can see that it for sure will answer some of my questions

if you have more good resources dedicated to ASP.Net strategies of
building applications with orientation on scalability and performance i
will thankfully welcome them

may tip lists exists like
* disable viewstate where you don't needed
* prevent round trips to database etc.

but what difficult to find for me is some good architecture and
strategy oriented articles

Thanks much,
Yevgeniy

JuanTLlibre wrote:

There is no simple answer for your concern.

However, you can download and study this guide :
"Improving .NET Application Performance and Scalability"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...l/scalenet.asp

All the answers you are seeking are in that very complete guide.
Take the time you need to understand the principles explained in it well.

Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
===================================

"Sh********@gmail.com" wrote:

hi all
the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
appreciate any opinion
i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
meet performance issues
maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
performance bad
also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
database performance
we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
them everywhere

also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
it just lot faster

i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
that

Thanks much
EV

[Damien]

Sh********@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Juan
grate book, i not finished yet all of 1150 pages :) but after overview
i can see that it for sure will answer some of my questions

if you have more good resources dedicated to ASP.Net strategies of
building applications with orientation on scalability and performance i
will thankfully welcome them

may tip lists exists like
* disable viewstate where you don't needed
* prevent round trips to database etc.

but what difficult to find for me is some good architecture and
strategy oriented articles

Thanks much,
Yevgeniy

I don't know about others, but I've found having a profiler invaluable.
We're a 1.1 shop here, so we're using ANTS, but I believe VS2005 has a
built in profiler.

Being able to find hot spots and be able to measure whether the code
changes are improving or having a detrimental effect is a godsend, if
you're writing complex code. And being able to see just what clutter
you've built up (using a memory profiling run) can make you feel sorry
for the GC.

As others have said, yes, viewstate can have a considerable overhead.
But we've managed to get "acceptable" performance on some pages even
though (to my mind) they're quite complex beasts. For example, most of
our pages consist of datagrids. When the page loads, it queries the
database to determine what controls to render in which position (using
databinding). We've got some pages which load a grid consisting of
about 30 rows, about 5 controls per row (mix of dropdown lists, radio
buttons, text boxes, etc). We also bind validation code, make decisions
on which rows to display (or make read only), and we have viewstate
turned on. It's not the fastest page in the world, but as I said, the
performance is deemed "acceptable" by the powers that be.

Course, when we get an opportunity, we're going to switch to repeaters,
since we're not actually using any of the datagrids functionality.

Damien