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Working with External Design and CodeBehind compilation errors, Best Practice?

I have a project where a html designer gives me a pile of html to
wire up. I do that and it works fine of course. Then, the html
designer makes a bunch of changes, give me back the revised aspx file
and of course it always gives compiler errors. I've asked the
designer not to remove any controls, div tags etc.

The problem is the errors always point to lines that are not the
problem.

Could someone suggest a better way to work with a designer so this
doesn't happen? (or how to find those errors easier).

Thanks
Peter Kellner
http://peterkellner.net
Jun 7 '06 #1
3 1162
Your designer should have an intro course in ASP.NET if you both are
going to be making changes back and forth. Otherwise, once you get the
overall markup ( HTML) from the designer, then any changes would have
to be made by you that way you know things don't get screwed up.

The designer doesn't have to learn how to code; but just learn the
different asp.net tags and what they are used for.
PeterKellner wrote:
I have a project where a html designer gives me a pile of html to
wire up. I do that and it works fine of course. Then, the html
designer makes a bunch of changes, give me back the revised aspx file
and of course it always gives compiler errors. I've asked the
designer not to remove any controls, div tags etc.

The problem is the errors always point to lines that are not the
problem.

Could someone suggest a better way to work with a designer so this
doesn't happen? (or how to find those errors easier).

Thanks
Peter Kellner
http://peterkellner.net


Jun 7 '06 #2
On 7 Jun 2006 08:07:24 -0700, "tdavisjr" <td******@gmail.com> wrote:
Your designer should have an intro course in ASP.NET if you both are
going to be making changes back and forth. Otherwise, once you get the
overall markup ( HTML) from the designer, then any changes would have
to be made by you that way you know things don't get screwed up.

The designer doesn't have to learn how to code; but just learn the
different asp.net tags and what they are used for.


The designer does not asp.net but doesn't have sqlserver licenses
which makes it hard for them to run. I'm also hoping not to have to
force designers to do everthing in vs2005 since most designers don't
like it and it does not work nearly as well for them as adobe or
macromedia.

Any other suggestions regarding what to do to resolve problems that
come up? or am I just SOL.

Thanks
Peter Kellner
http://peterkellner.net
Jun 7 '06 #3
Hello Peter,

I liked the practical comments made earlier and agree a short introduction
into web controls will help if the persons you are working with are
cooperative and motivated to learn. Consider this war story...

When working as an architect I was often working and consulting as a CAD
Manager. The same problems we are having in web development are prevalent
throughout the US construction industry which is controlled by Autoslime who
most know develops and sells their flagship product AutoCRAP which is
actually an outstanding drafting product -- but -- the Autoslimesters
cripple their products to obstruct, hinder or prevent them from being used
with the web for example as well as all other regards of any consideration
to a business owner. Autoslime also has corrupt licensing requirements which
forbid 3rd party development of any applications or add-ins they determine
to be competitive with what Autoslime provides OOTB. Since what is provided
OOTB is crippleware everybody is SOL. Thet are so slimey they claim
customers do not ask for anything other than what they provide OOTB.

Worse yet are the staff that work in various AEC firms (Architecture,
Engineering, Construction) as the construction industry attracts the worst
of the worst of the mental cripples the human race has produced. The
staff -- even when provided with painstakenly created documentation in print
or help files -- including the college educated architects and engineers who
are the worst of them all -- won't or can't as a result of their mental
defects adhere to standard object naming conventions, layer naming
conventions, and other standards each firm's management attempts to develop
and implement as a means to effectively control their costs of production.
The National Institute of Science and Technology (NIST) reports the
crippleware and the morons working in the industry are responsible for
imposing $15 billion in annual losses throughout the US construction
industry.

The same principles are present with Microsoft and the products we use for
web development. Microsoft sells crippleware and those that control the
company have steadfastly refused to ensure the company releases development
products that interoperate with one another. AFIK and have been able to tell
when using CTP even Microsoft's new line of Expression web design and
development products are FU crippleware that does not and will not
interoperate with Visual Studio in the manner that is actually needed.
Granted I haven't put too much time into this matter and the products are
currently CTP but there would at least be some obvious signs in the CTP or
discussions in blogs and newsgroups regarding interoperability.

AFIC it doesn't matter if anybody continues to use Macrodoby Dreamweaver or
not. Even if they decided to use Microsoft products they'd still be working
with crippleware. Even the Team System is crippleware and fails to meet this
simple business requirement which requires genuine collaborative feature
sets built into the products.

So I would suggest you also discuss this issue at
news://macromedia.dreamweaver.appdev and news://macromedia.dreamweaver as
there are a number of people trying to work through the same quandry in
those groups and you may pick up something useful.

For a technical solution that resolves part of the problem you may have to
choose to implement SQL Express at the customer's site and implement other
creative work-arounds and hacks. The bottom line however is in fact the
bottom line and this time its your bottom line we are talking about aren't
we Peter? The same bottom line I finally put into perspective and work at
trying to cover all the bases by writing into each and every agreement when
consulting.

That is in so many words, "Mr. Customer, each time your untrained or
ignorant staff cost me a penney I must charge you a dollar in change order
fees." As a service provider we don't put it so bluntly of course but the
point is you have to tighten up your costs of production and the only way to
do so is by refusing to bear the costs that are not yours to bear.

The pen really can be mightier than the sword. You're probably going to take
a bath on this project but for future projects I urge you to try to write
your agreements to reflect these intangible costs.

Obviously I don't get as much work when I don't assume the risk without
being paid for doing so and you won't either but you will be much happier
and won't kick the dog anymore.

Finally, we can all learn a thing or two from other peers and "Joel on
Software" [1] is a must for all of us.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

[1] http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/?biz



"PeterKellner" <pk**********@73rdstreet.com> wrote in message
news:r6********************************@4ax.com...
On 7 Jun 2006 08:07:24 -0700, "tdavisjr" <td******@gmail.com> wrote:
Your designer should have an intro course in ASP.NET if you both are
going to be making changes back and forth. Otherwise, once you get the
overall markup ( HTML) from the designer, then any changes would have
to be made by you that way you know things don't get screwed up.

The designer doesn't have to learn how to code; but just learn the
different asp.net tags and what they are used for.


The designer does not asp.net but doesn't have sqlserver licenses
which makes it hard for them to run. I'm also hoping not to have to
force designers to do everthing in vs2005 since most designers don't
like it and it does not work nearly as well for them as adobe or
macromedia.

Any other suggestions regarding what to do to resolve problems that
come up? or am I just SOL.

Thanks
Peter Kellner
http://peterkellner.net

Jun 8 '06 #4

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