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What should I do webapp or webservice + webapp?

P: n/a
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie

Feb 9 '06 #1
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6 Replies


P: n/a
Jhooper,

I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you truly
want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications in the
future then webservices are a great way to go.

--
Sincerely,

S. Justin Gengo, MCP
Web Developer / Programmer

www.aboutfortunate.com

"Out of chaos comes order."
Nietzsche
<jh*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie

Feb 9 '06 #2

P: n/a
Web services are surprisingly easy to produce and install. However, they're
slow!! I would NOT use them to return large chunks of data and I would
never call them within a repetative task. Also suggest you build in some
type of security key if you don't want them to be available to anyone that
might stumble across them.

Ignore "Microsoft's direction" as much as possible and go with what you know
makes sense for your environment. Microsoft can and do try to lead
developers down roads they don't need to go down.

You can insulate the data from the UI in otherways, you don't have to use
web services to do this. I like to refer to this as "the real world" vs.
the "Microsoft press world".

<jh*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie

Feb 9 '06 #3

P: n/a
I think many people get caught up in the "webservice" buzz word hype
(including me). It is an abstract interface to a complicated problem,
but maybe Rob is right. Go with what you know and what you can support
vs. trying to build an enterprise solution. Since there is no
immediate need/desire for the smart Phone integration (knowing full
well that I might have to build that later) I might just as well
address the problem with the solution that we know best. I would like
to follow the best practices (build a series of webservice interfaces
to our database and share them with web applications, windows
applications, smartphone, etc) but, in the scope of trying to solve a
problem... maybe the "dumbed down" version in .Net 2.0
(gridview<--datasource<--stored procedure) methodology is best.

It's nice to hear someone else say what you may have (subconsciously)
already knew.
Of course, I'm always open to any suggestions on a better way to do
something.

Thanks for your advise.
Jamie

Feb 9 '06 #4

P: n/a

You can go way too overload on "reuse".

You need to consider your overall architecture.

WebServices are good for nonpropietary data transfer. Because any
technology can use them.

If you only have dotnet apps, then artificially introducing a webservices
layer is kinda dumb.

...

If you have 100% dot net apps, but want the security of running "secret
code" at a safe location, remoting is another option.

Check my
http://spaces.msn.com/sholliday/
9/27/2005 entry
My old company had a "Verify User" web service. THey did this because they
had:
Vb(classic)
Asp
DotNet
Java

projects who needed a central place to verify users. Because they needed
non dotnet apps, a webservice made sense.

A web service for UPS makes sense, because anybody can talk to it.

A dot net only shop.... doesn't make sense, because you give up too much
performance, if you don't need it.

...

IF you create good Tiered objects (Presentation, BusinessLogic, DataTier),
then you can always add a webservice later, at not alot of effort.

From your description, I don't think you want an articificially imposed web
service.

You want a web app.

Presentation.Web.1
BusinessLogicLayer
DataTierLayer

My rule of thumb for the DataTier(layer) is that it returns
DataSets
IDataReaders
Scalars
null (nothing)

back to the BusinessLayer.

You get data back (datasets, Idatareaders, scalars), ...or you push data in
(for inserts, updates etc)..which return nothing.

...

<jh*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie

Feb 9 '06 #5

P: n/a
And why can't he re-use his existing code?? Doesn't have to be a web
service in order to be re-usable. Also, if one does indeed get into the
situation where many other applications (some not your own) start using a
web service, one has to be EXTREMELY careful about making any changes to
that web service. SSDT

I'm not a fan of MS Best Practices -- I'm a fan of common sense. MS Best
Practices rarely fit into the real world of software development.
"S. Justin Gengo [MCP]" <justin@[no_spam_please]aboutfortunate.com> wrote in
message news:Of**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Jhooper,

I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you
truly want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications
in the future then webservices are a great way to go.

--
Sincerely,

S. Justin Gengo, MCP
Web Developer / Programmer

www.aboutfortunate.com

"Out of chaos comes order."
Nietzsche
<jh*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie


Feb 9 '06 #6

P: n/a
Rob,

That's very true sometimes. But I've been down a few roads where scalability
became a factor and found out the hard way that I just ended up rewriting
code the way MS suggested originally. It's always a balancing act between
speed of development and scalablity.

If speed is what Jamie is after then no, he probably shouldn't follow best
practices.

But best practices are there for a reason. Some of the smartest developers
came up with the best practices. And despite what many people like to think
they didn't come up with it all just to make money. Sometimes it's hard to
see in smaller applications, but those best practices came from real world
problems and solutions.

--
Sincerely,

S. Justin Gengo, MCP
Web Developer / Programmer

www.aboutfortunate.com

"Out of chaos comes order."
Nietzsche
"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:eW**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
And why can't he re-use his existing code?? Doesn't have to be a web
service in order to be re-usable. Also, if one does indeed get into the
situation where many other applications (some not your own) start using a
web service, one has to be EXTREMELY careful about making any changes to
that web service. SSDT

I'm not a fan of MS Best Practices -- I'm a fan of common sense. MS Best
Practices rarely fit into the real world of software development.
"S. Justin Gengo [MCP]" <justin@[no_spam_please]aboutfortunate.com> wrote
in message news:Of**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Jhooper,

I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you
truly want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications
in the future then webservices are a great way to go.

--
Sincerely,

S. Justin Gengo, MCP
Web Developer / Programmer

www.aboutfortunate.com

"Out of chaos comes order."
Nietzsche
<jh*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
Phone/Treo solution eventually.

I would like to create our apps in the most current development
environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
-->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

Tell me what I should do.

Thanks,
Jamie



Feb 10 '06 #7

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