Some Advice

[TobyRiley]

Can anyone offer some advice on this.

I have a large web based application, 100+ aspx pages, 100's of
webUserControls etc. While all of the system is structued & layered as n-tier
we cannot seem to spilt the web application up into discreet modules. i.e.
there is a core services framework that all areas of the application use but
majoiry of the modules we have in the application are standalone or talk to
other modules through variuos interfaces.

However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous web
site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application modules
that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one change
means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small module.

It seems very difficult (impossible) to "Share" components such as custom
web user controls across different web projects while developing.

All the modules & framework when deployed should sit in a single IIS web
application area on the server.

Has anyone done this or have any suggestions, Is it even possbile?

Regards

Toby

[Cam]

It's not too difficult. You just partition the web layer up as seperate web
projects, which will each output a different assembly containing part of your
site, and will contain the from end (aspx, ascx) files also.

The key thing that you have to do is Remove the application setting on
Virtual Directories created for each module of the application when you set
it up as a Web project in Visual Studio. Otherwise you will get a message
saying that you can't access controls within other modules because they are
in a differnt application.

This means however that all the assemblies of your different web modules
will need to go in a Bin folder underneath the root of your website.
Unfortunately web projects refuse to allow you to target built assemblies to
anywhere outside their project folder, therefore you'll need a script or
something which is run after a completed build to copy newly built assemblies
into the website root where the website will expect them.

HTH,
Cam

"TobyRiley" wrote:

However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous web
site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application modules
that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one change
means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small module.

[John Rivers]

thankyou for further proof
that developing sophisticated
web applications in .net is a joke

if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
methods and classes

your problem would be solved

Cam wrote:

It's not too difficult. You just partition the web layer up as seperate web
projects, which will each output a different assembly containing part of your
site, and will contain the from end (aspx, ascx) files also.

The key thing that you have to do is Remove the application setting on
Virtual Directories created for each module of the application when you set
it up as a Web project in Visual Studio. Otherwise you will get a message
saying that you can't access controls within other modules because they are
in a differnt application.

This means however that all the assemblies of your different web modules
will need to go in a Bin folder underneath the root of your website.
Unfortunately web projects refuse to allow you to target built assemblies to
anywhere outside their project folder, therefore you'll need a script or
something which is run after a completed build to copy newly built assemblies
into the website root where the website will expect them.

HTH,
Cam

"TobyRiley" wrote:

However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous web
site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application modules
that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one change
means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small module.

[Cam]

Hey troll,

You fail to appreciate that these issues are actually down to Visual Studio,
not ASP.NET, and that they pale into insignificance compared to the problems
created by your desire to mix logic and presentation layer.

When you actually work on a software engineering project where more than one
developer works on more than half a dozen web pages then see what you think.
I can tell you from experience that your proposals here and in other threads
are naive at best.

Now back under your bridge!

Rgds,
C.

"John Rivers" wrote:

thankyou for further proof
that developing sophisticated4
web applications in .net is a joke

if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
methods and classes

your problem would be solved

[TobyRiley]

Thanks for your insight & quick reply, I will try this out. I'm now wonerding
if has been made any eaiser in VS 2005 (or could I extend the dev environment
to ease such a deveopment.)

Regards

Toby
"Cam" wrote:

It's not too difficult. You just partition the web layer up as seperate web
projects, which will each output a different assembly containing part of your
site, and will contain the from end (aspx, ascx) files also.

The key thing that you have to do is Remove the application setting on
Virtual Directories created for each module of the application when you set
it up as a Web project in Visual Studio. Otherwise you will get a message
saying that you can't access controls within other modules because they are
in a differnt application.

This means however that all the assemblies of your different web modules
will need to go in a Bin folder underneath the root of your website.
Unfortunately web projects refuse to allow you to target built assemblies to
anywhere outside their project folder, therefore you'll need a script or
something which is run after a completed build to copy newly built assemblies
into the website root where the website will expect them.

HTH,
Cam

"TobyRiley" wrote:

However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous web
site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application modules
that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one change
means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small module.

[Cam]

I hope so, as it's not particularly intuitive at the moment. I've generally
found that as long as you split your code base in such a manner that most
updates will be constrained to single modules, then it doesn't cause too many
problems (apart from being a little difficult to set up new development
environments for new starters etc.)

"TobyRiley" wrote:

Thanks for your insight & quick reply, I will try this out. I'm now wonerding
if has been made any eaiser in VS 2005 (or could I extend the dev environment
to ease such a deveopment.)

[TobyRiley]

Found this which was useful as well. Post build events used to copy assemblies.

CTO http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/SubWebSolution1.asp

Regards

Toby

"Cam" wrote:

I hope so, as it's not particularly intuitive at the moment. I've generally
found that as long as you split your code base in such a manner that most
updates will be constrained to single modules, then it doesn't cause too many
problems (apart from being a little difficult to set up new development
environments for new starters etc.)

"TobyRiley" wrote:

Thanks for your insight & quick reply, I will try this out. I'm now wonerding
if has been made any eaiser in VS 2005 (or could I extend the dev environment
to ease such a deveopment.)

[John Rivers]

you are silly

its a simple problem
easily solved in classic asp by creating
a set of libraries and include files

some of which are under the control of designer
some of which are under the control of developer

by using normal everyday coding features such as

callbacks
classes
class interfaces

which are all available in vbscript by the way

you can quickly create multi-brandable, skinnable
web applications with very complex client and server
side implementations in an easy to manage way

plus combine this with vb6 activex dlls
and you have a great solution

the problem with classic asp was that most people
don't have the imagination and flair to use it
properly

the problem with asp.net is that it is fantastic
but for some unknown reason they don't let us use code blocks in
methods and classes for presentation

which is utterly ridiculous

now run along you before i eat you

Cam wrote:

Hey troll,

You fail to appreciate that these issues are actually down to Visual Studio,
not ASP.NET, and that they pale into insignificance compared to the problems
created by your desire to mix logic and presentation layer.

When you actually work on a software engineering project where more than one
developer works on more than half a dozen web pages then see what you think.
I can tell you from experience that your proposals here and in other threads
are naive at best.

Now back under your bridge!

Rgds,
C.

"John Rivers" wrote:

thankyou for further proof
that developing sophisticated4
web applications in .net is a joke

if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
methods and classes

your problem would be solved

[Kevin Spencer]

Even a fool can be thought wise if he simply keeps his mouth shut.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Paranoia is just a state of mind.

"John Rivers" <fi*****@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...

thankyou for further proof
that developing sophisticated
web applications in .net is a joke

if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
methods and classes

your problem would be solved

Cam wrote:

It's not too difficult. You just partition the web layer up as seperate
web
projects, which will each output a different assembly containing part of
your
site, and will contain the from end (aspx, ascx) files also.

The key thing that you have to do is Remove the application setting on
Virtual Directories created for each module of the application when you
set
it up as a Web project in Visual Studio. Otherwise you will get a
message
saying that you can't access controls within other modules because they
are
in a differnt application.

This means however that all the assemblies of your different web modules
will need to go in a Bin folder underneath the root of your website.
Unfortunately web projects refuse to allow you to target built assemblies
to
anywhere outside their project folder, therefore you'll need a script or
something which is run after a completed build to copy newly built
assemblies
into the website root where the website will expect them.

HTH,
Cam

"TobyRiley" wrote:

> However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous
> web
> site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application
> modules
> that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one
> change
> means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small
> module.

[Kevin Spencer]

For one thing, use custom Server Controls rather than User Controls, as they
can be re-used easily in any web application.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Paranoia is just a state of mind.

"TobyRiley" <To*******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2B**********************************@microsof t.com...

Can anyone offer some advice on this.

I have a large web based application, 100+ aspx pages, 100's of
webUserControls etc. While all of the system is structued & layered as
n-tier
we cannot seem to spilt the web application up into discreet modules. i.e.
there is a core services framework that all areas of the application use
but
majoiry of the modules we have in the application are standalone or talk
to
other modules through variuos interfaces.

However I would like like to stop deveoping this as a single humongous web
site (as it keeps on growing) and develop individual web application
modules
that can be more easily version controlled. As you can imagine one change
means a complete upgrade of an enitire site rather than just a small
module.

It seems very difficult (impossible) to "Share" components such as custom
web user controls across different web projects while developing.

All the modules & framework when deployed should sit in a single IIS web
application area on the server.

Has anyone done this or have any suggestions, Is it even possbile?

Regards

Toby

[Milosz Skalecki]

ASP Code block again :) John Rivers you are my favourite member of this group
:)

--
Milosz Skalecki
MCP, MCAD
"John Rivers" wrote:

you are silly

its a simple problem
easily solved in classic asp by creating
a set of libraries and include files

some of which are under the control of designer
some of which are under the control of developer

by using normal everyday coding features such as

callbacks
classes
class interfaces

which are all available in vbscript by the way

you can quickly create multi-brandable, skinnable
web applications with very complex client and server
side implementations in an easy to manage way

plus combine this with vb6 activex dlls
and you have a great solution

the problem with classic asp was that most people
don't have the imagination and flair to use it
properly

the problem with asp.net is that it is fantastic
but for some unknown reason they don't let us use code blocks in
methods and classes for presentation

which is utterly ridiculous

now run along you before i eat you

Cam wrote:

Hey troll,

You fail to appreciate that these issues are actually down to Visual Studio,
not ASP.NET, and that they pale into insignificance compared to the problems
created by your desire to mix logic and presentation layer.

When you actually work on a software engineering project where more than one
developer works on more than half a dozen web pages then see what you think.
I can tell you from experience that your proposals here and in other threads
are naive at best.

Now back under your bridge!

Rgds,
C.

"John Rivers" wrote:

thankyou for further proof
that developing sophisticated4
web applications in .net is a joke

if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
methods and classes

your problem would be solved

[Kevin Spencer]

> ASP Code block again :) John Rivers you are my favourite member of this

group
:)
I bet you're one of those people who loves to stop and look at horrifying
traffic accidents too! ;-)

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
You can lead a fish to a bicycle,
but it takes a very long time,
and the bicycle has to *want* to change.

"Milosz Skalecki" <mi*****@REMOVEITwp.pl> wrote in message
news:BA**********************************@microsof t.com... ASP Code block again :) John Rivers you are my favourite member of this
group
:)

--
Milosz Skalecki
MCP, MCAD
"John Rivers" wrote:

you are silly

its a simple problem
easily solved in classic asp by creating
a set of libraries and include files

some of which are under the control of designer
some of which are under the control of developer

by using normal everyday coding features such as

callbacks
classes
class interfaces

which are all available in vbscript by the way

you can quickly create multi-brandable, skinnable
web applications with very complex client and server
side implementations in an easy to manage way

plus combine this with vb6 activex dlls
and you have a great solution

the problem with classic asp was that most people
don't have the imagination and flair to use it
properly

the problem with asp.net is that it is fantastic
but for some unknown reason they don't let us use code blocks in
methods and classes for presentation

which is utterly ridiculous

now run along you before i eat you

Cam wrote:

> Hey troll,
>
> You fail to appreciate that these issues are actually down to Visual
> Studio,
> not ASP.NET, and that they pale into insignificance compared to the
> problems
> created by your desire to mix logic and presentation layer.
>
> When you actually work on a software engineering project where more
> than one
> developer works on more than half a dozen web pages then see what you
> think.
> I can tell you from experience that your proposals here and in other
> threads
> are naive at best.
>
> Now back under your bridge!
>
> Rgds,
> C.
>
> "John Rivers" wrote:
>
> > thankyou for further proof
> > that developing sophisticated4
> > web applications in .net is a joke
> >
> > if ms simply allowed for codeblocks in
> > methods and classes
> >
> > your problem would be solved

[Milosz Skalecki]

"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

ASP Code block again :) John Rivers you are my favourite member of this
group
:)

I bet you're one of those people who loves to stop and look at horrifying
traffic accidents too! ;-)

No way :]
You can always get his posts seriously but it's just a waste of time. I
wonder if he finds a good job in 5-10 years time with his ASP/Code blocks...