ASP or ASP.NET

[Placek]

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin

[Mark Rae]

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
true?
If not now, it soon will be...
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Yes. ASP.NET is as different from ASP as VB.NET is from VB - there's no
point learning ASP and hoping that, somehow, it will fast-track you to
ASP.NET. The issue is not the actual syntax, it's the .NET Framework which
represents the learning curve.

Your PC runs some version of Windows, right? Are you considering learning
DOS...?

[Placek]

Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows
2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and
partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask?

"Mark Rae" wrote:

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
true?

If not now, it soon will be...

Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Yes. ASP.NET is as different from ASP as VB.NET is from VB - there's no
point learning ASP and hoping that, somehow, it will fast-track you to
ASP.NET. The issue is not the actual syntax, it's the .NET Framework which
represents the learning curve.

Your PC runs some version of Windows, right? Are you considering learning
DOS...?

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

It is not a dead language, it is simply not being developed further as
asp.net is much more powerful.

You should spend your time learning asp.net, it will run fine on xp pro and
you can develop with the SDK for free, or get a copy web developer express
if you dont have vs.net. It will also help with your job prospects when you
leave uni.

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to
get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my
dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all
the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS
version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin

[Mark Rae]

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:81**********************************@microsof t.com...

Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows
2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and
partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask?

Where are you from, by the way...? Just wondering about the total irony
bypass...

[WJ]

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at
the end of 2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While waitting,
you may want to download the beta version and try it out, click here:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/expres...p/default.aspx. This product is
very nice, MS also gives you a so called MS/SQL Express 2005, an RDBMS which
works very nicely with VS.Net 2005. All these are free for beginners.

Do not learn ASP as other Ps have said. ASP is a legacy product, not very
"secure" to begin with, that is why Asp.Net was born. Also you are buying
Windows XP Pro, which is a smart thing to do. Windows 2000 OS is not secure
either. Replace it as soon as you get the hold of XP Pro.

John

[Juan T. Llibre]

re:

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of
2005. It is free.
Huh ?

What ever gave you that idea ?

The *beta* is free. Visual Web Developer will cost $49 when released.
It's going to be quite cheap, but not quite free.

All the other *Express* versions, VB.NET Express, C++ Express,
C# Express, J# Express, will also cost $49.

Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at :
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/

The cheapest VS.NET version is VS.NET "Standard",
which will cost $299, and $199 for upgrades.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/v...itions/stdexp/


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"WJ" <Jo*******@HotMail.Com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of
2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While waitting, you may want to download
the beta version and try it out, click here:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/expres...p/default.aspx. This product is very nice,
MS also gives you a so called MS/SQL Express 2005, an RDBMS which works very nicely with
VS.Net 2005. All these are free for beginners.

Do not learn ASP as other Ps have said. ASP is a legacy product, not very "secure" to
begin with, that is why Asp.Net was born. Also you are buying Windows XP Pro, which is a
smart thing to do. Windows 2000 OS is not secure either. Replace it as soon as you get
the hold of XP Pro.

John

[WJ]

"Juan T. Llibre" <no***********@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

re:

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out
at the end of 2005. It is free.

Huh ?

Yep! I was not thinking while typing ! Got mixed up with Beta released.
Thanks for the correction.

John Webb

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

if I remember the exact phrase was it would be "competitively priced"

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"Juan T. Llibre" <no***********@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

re:

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out
at the end of 2005. It is free.

Huh ?

What ever gave you that idea ?

The *beta* is free. Visual Web Developer will cost $49 when released.
It's going to be quite cheap, but not quite free.

All the other *Express* versions, VB.NET Express, C++ Express,
C# Express, J# Express, will also cost $49.

Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at :
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/

The cheapest VS.NET version is VS.NET "Standard",
which will cost $299, and $199 for upgrades.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/v...itions/stdexp/


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"WJ" <Jo*******@HotMail.Com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out
at the end of 2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While
waitting, you may want to download the beta version and try it out, click
here: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/expres...p/default.aspx. This
product is very nice, MS also gives you a so called MS/SQL Express 2005,
an RDBMS which works very nicely with VS.Net 2005. All these are free for
beginners.

Do not learn ASP as other Ps have said. ASP is a legacy product, not very
"secure" to begin with, that is why Asp.Net was born. Also you are buying
Windows XP Pro, which is a smart thing to do. Windows 2000 OS is not
secure either. Replace it as soon as you get the hold of XP Pro.

John

[Juan T. Llibre]

I remember that phrase, too, but the linked page

Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at :
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/

says :
"Our plan is to offer the Express products
for $49 per product when they are released."

Of course, nobody has to stick to any "plan"... ;-)

Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"John Timney (ASP.NET MVP)" <ti*****@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... if I remember the exact phrase was it would be "competitively priced"

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director "Juan T. Llibre" <no***********@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

re:

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of
2005. It is free.

Huh ?

What ever gave you that idea ?

The *beta* is free. Visual Web Developer will cost $49 when released.
It's going to be quite cheap, but not quite free.

All the other *Express* versions, VB.NET Express, C++ Express,
C# Express, J# Express, will also cost $49.

Pricing info for the Express SKU's is at :
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/

The cheapest VS.NET version is VS.NET "Standard",
which will cost $299, and $199 for upgrades.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/v...itions/stdexp/


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"WJ" <Jo*******@HotMail.Com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

There will be a free version of "VS.Net Express 2005" when it comes out at the end of
2005. It is free. You may try to wait for this. While waitting, you may want to
download the beta version and try it out, click here:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/expres...p/default.aspx. This product is very nice,
MS also gives you a so called MS/SQL Express 2005, an RDBMS which works very nicely
with VS.Net 2005. All these are free for beginners.

Do not learn ASP as other Ps have said. ASP is a legacy product, not very "secure" to
begin with, that is why Asp.Net was born. Also you are buying Windows XP Pro, which is
a smart thing to do. Windows 2000 OS is not secure either. Replace it as soon as you
get the hold of XP Pro.

John

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Martin,

It's not really possible to answer your question authoritatively based on
the information you've supplied. First, what is your dissertation about? In
other words, are you studying programming, the Internet, databases, or what?
Here's the reason I ask:

First, a dissertation is not a web site. Nor is a dissertation a database.
Nor is a dissertation an application. So, I'm a bit confused from the
beginning about what exactly your requirements are, and you haven't given us
a clue as to what your course of study is in. So, we are left with
practically no information as to what the purpose of this web application
is, and what your reasons for creating it are.

What technology you employ to create your application is going to be
determined by a number of factors. What are the requirements that drive the
solution? What are the requirements for your dissertation? These are similar
questions. For example, if your dissertation requires you to be a
programmer, you would be best advised to learn programming. It is entirely
possible to create a web application with almost no programming skills. So,
if your dissertation does NOT require you to be a programmer, it would
probably be a waste of your time to learn programming. Learning programming,
and Internet programming in particular, is a daunting task, and I rather
doubt that it can be accomplished to any degree of expertise in 6 months.

If the web application is peripheral to your dissertation, it would be best
to stick with something simple. For example, you can use Micrsoft FrontPage
to design a complete web site with database connectivity in a matter of
several days to several weeks. You can get up and running with ASP in a bit
longer than that, perhaps 6 months if you work hard at it. ASP.Net will take
a lot of work and time to really get proficient at.

So, can you shed some light on exactly what this is for, what your course of
study is, etc? Or am I correct in my suspicion that all college provides is
the ability to sound intelligent by soliciting a lot of opinions and
mimicking the most popular?

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to
get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my
dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all
the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS
version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin

[Placek]

I did wonder why on earth you were going on about DOS, but I understand the
point you were making now.

"Mark Rae" wrote:

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:81**********************************@microsof t.com...

Thanks for the info, Mark. In answer to your question, my PC runs Windows
2000. I know a little DOS and was intending to learn enough to format and
partition my hard drive etc. Why do you ask?

Where are you from, by the way...? Just wondering about the total irony
bypass...

[Placek]

Hi Kevin
Thanks for the info, I’m painfully aware that a database/website/code is not
a dissertation. Last year I spent several months developing an application in
VBA that did not meet the criteria. I’m keen not to make the same error.

I’ve already done some programming, database and web site stuff on my course
and now I want to showcase these skills by building a web site that queries a
database. I know this sounds vague but my main concern right now is what
technology I use to build it.
Thanks again
Martin
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

Hi Martin,

It's not really possible to answer your question authoritatively based on
the information you've supplied. First, what is your dissertation about? In
other words, are you studying programming, the Internet, databases, or what?
Here's the reason I ask:

First, a dissertation is not a web site. Nor is a dissertation a database.
Nor is a dissertation an application. So, I'm a bit confused from the
beginning about what exactly your requirements are, and you haven't given us
a clue as to what your course of study is in. So, we are left with
practically no information as to what the purpose of this web application
is, and what your reasons for creating it are.

What technology you employ to create your application is going to be
determined by a number of factors. What are the requirements that drive the
solution? What are the requirements for your dissertation? These are similar
questions. For example, if your dissertation requires you to be a
programmer, you would be best advised to learn programming. It is entirely
possible to create a web application with almost no programming skills. So,
if your dissertation does NOT require you to be a programmer, it would
probably be a waste of your time to learn programming. Learning programming,
and Internet programming in particular, is a daunting task, and I rather
doubt that it can be accomplished to any degree of expertise in 6 months.

If the web application is peripheral to your dissertation, it would be best
to stick with something simple. For example, you can use Micrsoft FrontPage
to design a complete web site with database connectivity in a matter of
several days to several weeks. You can get up and running with ASP in a bit
longer than that, perhaps 6 months if you work hard at it. ASP.Net will take
a lot of work and time to really get proficient at.

So, can you shed some light on exactly what this is for, what your course of
study is, etc? Or am I correct in my suspicion that all college provides is
the ability to sound intelligent by soliciting a lot of opinions and
mimicking the most popular?

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to
get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my
dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all
the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS
version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Martin,

I'm afraid you still have to be more specific in order to get an
authoritative answer. You say that you main concern is what technology you
use to build your database-driven web application. However, again, that is
dependent upon the requirements for your dissertation. Assuming that you
want to showcase some unspecified "skills," what skills do you want to
showcase? You state that your VBA project last year did not meet "the
criteria." What ARE the criteria?

Selecting a technology is not simply a matter of finding out what a bunch of
worldwide strangers who may or may not have various skills and skill levels
have to say, for whatever reasons they may have. That is hardly going to
give you a worthy answer. For example, there are occasionally 12-year-olds
who post in these newsgroups. There are people who know almost nothing about
programming who post in these newsgroups. There are people who post in these
newsgroups because they don't know what a newsgroup is, or simply to incite
controversy. How do you know which advice is going to be good advice? In
addition, you've already received a number of replies, none of which is
based on any knowledge of what your requirements are. In other words, the
advice given so far has been based upon the subjective like or dislike of a
given technology, which is often of a "religious" nature. There is an old
saying: "Consider the source." However, there is very little information
about the sources you are seeking advice from. Any advice you receive based
upon the lack of criteria you've provided is going to be unreliable.

So, how about giving us a clue as to what these mysterious criteria are? As
I mentioned in my earlier reply, learning a web application technology takes
a variable amount of time, partly due to the learning curve associated with
that technology. It will take quite a while to learn ASP.Net, while ASP,
which will be around for years to come, can be learned in a relatively short
period of time. In either case, writing web applications is much more
difficult than writing desktop applications. The user interface is HTML,
which can be viewed on a variety of systems, using a variety of browsers,
and with a variety of screen resolutions and window sizes. In addition,
we're talking about a stateless HTTP environment. Memory management is one
of the most difficult aspects of web application programming. You don't want
to spend a year or more learning a technology which you may never use again.
But we have no idea whether or not you intend to use it again.

So, in order to help you make a wise decision about your "main concern," we
need more information about your personal requirements and reasons for
needing to use one of these technologies.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:82**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi Kevin
Thanks for the info, I'm painfully aware that a database/website/code is
not
a dissertation. Last year I spent several months developing an application
in
VBA that did not meet the criteria. I'm keen not to make the same error.

I've already done some programming, database and web site stuff on my
course
and now I want to showcase these skills by building a web site that
queries a
database. I know this sounds vague but my main concern right now is what
technology I use to build it.
Thanks again
Martin
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

Hi Martin,

It's not really possible to answer your question authoritatively based on
the information you've supplied. First, what is your dissertation about?
In
other words, are you studying programming, the Internet, databases, or
what?
Here's the reason I ask:

First, a dissertation is not a web site. Nor is a dissertation a
database.
Nor is a dissertation an application. So, I'm a bit confused from the
beginning about what exactly your requirements are, and you haven't given
us
a clue as to what your course of study is in. So, we are left with
practically no information as to what the purpose of this web application
is, and what your reasons for creating it are.

What technology you employ to create your application is going to be
determined by a number of factors. What are the requirements that drive
the
solution? What are the requirements for your dissertation? These are
similar
questions. For example, if your dissertation requires you to be a
programmer, you would be best advised to learn programming. It is
entirely
possible to create a web application with almost no programming skills.
So,
if your dissertation does NOT require you to be a programmer, it would
probably be a waste of your time to learn programming. Learning
programming,
and Internet programming in particular, is a daunting task, and I rather
doubt that it can be accomplished to any degree of expertise in 6 months.

If the web application is peripheral to your dissertation, it would be
best
to stick with something simple. For example, you can use Micrsoft
FrontPage
to design a complete web site with database connectivity in a matter of
several days to several weeks. You can get up and running with ASP in a
bit
longer than that, perhaps 6 months if you work hard at it. ASP.Net will
take
a lot of work and time to really get proficient at.

So, can you shed some light on exactly what this is for, what your course
of
study is, etc? Or am I correct in my suspicion that all college provides
is
the ability to sound intelligent by soliciting a lot of opinions and
mimicking the most popular?

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
The sun never sets on
the Kingdom of Heaven

"Placek" <Pl****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

> Hi there
> I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to
> get
> as many opinions as I can.
>
> The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my
> dissertation,
> which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched
> all
> the
> different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP.
> I
> bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS
> version.
>
> Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this
> true?
> Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months
> learning
> and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Martin

[DonkeySpank]

I'd go for ASP.NET every time.

"Placek" wrote:

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin

[DonkeySpank]

I'd go for ASP.NET every time.

"Placek" wrote:

Hi there
I've posted a similar question on the ASP message board as I am keen to get
as many opinions as I can.

The situation is that I am a student just about to start on my dissertation,
which is going to be a website that queries a database. I researched all the
different methods of doing it (eg Java servlets, C) and decided on ASP. I
bought a book and decided to install XP Pro as it has the latest IIS version.

Then I read ASP is a dead language with the advent of ASP.NET. Is this true?
Would I be flogging a dead horse spending the next six or so months learning
and developing this application in ASP rather than ASP.NET?

Thanks in advance
Martin