By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
435,346 Members | 2,331 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 435,346 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

Can you have 50 simultaneous web users with a MSDE, ASP.NET/ADO.NET backend...?

P: n/a
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
any way?
Nov 19 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
12 Replies


P: n/a
You got it...

Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote in message news:uX**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
any way?

Nov 19 '05 #2

P: n/a
Dan V. wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single
"asp_net worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50
simultaneous human users of the website would appear to the database
backend as a single user.
No. Multiple connections will be made. Yes, they will be made by the same
user, but that does not decrease the number of connections made. Each
connection contains its own session.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access
(actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET
website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous change to make while
NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in any way?


I don't follow you. In your first statement, you seem to be arguing (albeit
based on a flawed premise) in favor of retaining your Access backend ...
Bob Barrows
--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
Nov 19 '05 #3

P: n/a
I understood his post as requesting confirmation for his impression
that replacing his Access database with an MSDE database would
increase his his website's capacity to serve customers, since MSDE
doesn't choke on 50 simultaneous connections while Access might.

I agree with that.

Whether it's 50 simultaneous users each requesting a connection,
or one user requesting 50 connections is immaterial to the end result :

At some point, Access will choke while MSDE will continue to chug along.


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyahoo.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Dan V. wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single
"asp_net worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50
simultaneous human users of the website would appear to the database
backend as a single user.


No. Multiple connections will be made. Yes, they will be made by the same
user, but that does not decrease the number of connections made. Each
connection contains its own session.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access
(actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET
website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous change to make while
NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in any way?


I don't follow you. In your first statement, you seem to be arguing (albeit
based on a flawed premise) in favor of retaining your Access backend ...
Bob Barrows
--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET

Nov 19 '05 #4

P: n/a
I am saying we would switch to MSDE if it was faster - I thought it was
clear... :)
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access
(actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET
website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous change to make while
NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in any way?


"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyahoo.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Dan V. wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single
"asp_net worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50
simultaneous human users of the website would appear to the database
backend as a single user.
No. Multiple connections will be made. Yes, they will be made by the same
user, but that does not decrease the number of connections made. Each
connection contains its own session.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access
(actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET
website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous change to make while
NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in any way?


I don't follow you. In your first statement, you seem to be arguing

(albeit based on a flawed premise) in favor of retaining your Access backend ...
Bob Barrows
--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.

Nov 19 '05 #5

P: n/a
Juan T. Llibre wrote:
I understood his post as requesting confirmation for his impression
that replacing his Access database with an MSDE database would
increase his his website's capacity to serve customers, since MSDE
doesn't choke on 50 simultaneous connections while Access might.

I agree with that.

Same here - while I have read about an application where careful coding and
connection-handling allowed Access to adequately handle 200 users, MSDE
would probably have done the job better.
Whether it's 50 simultaneous users each requesting a connection,
or one user requesting 50 connections is immaterial to the end result
:

At some point, Access will choke while MSDE will continue to chug
along.


Again, careful connection-handling might allow Access to chug along as well
as MSDE. Don't forget about the thread-governor in MSDE ...

Bob Barrows

--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
Nov 19 '05 #6

P: n/a
I know, but the first sentence muddied the waters ...

I agree that MSDE should be used. Again, while it is possible to manage your
connections so that Access will perform well under this user load, MSDE will
be more forgiving if you get sloppy ... with Access, one connection left
open too long will bring things to a screeching halt. You have to do things
exactly right to make Access work well in these copnditions, as well as
making the proper sacrifices (virgin calves only) ... ;-)

Bob

Dan V. wrote:
I am saying we would switch to MSDE if it was faster - I thought it
was clear... :)
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access
(actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET
website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous change to make while
NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in any way?


--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
Nov 19 '05 #7

P: n/a
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:

¤ Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
¤ worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
¤ users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
¤ Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
¤ backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
¤ change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
¤ any way?
¤

As Bob mentioned in one of his posts you may want to keep in mind the that MSDE has a Workload
Governor that will throttle connections when there are more than eight concurrent operations. This
could perceptibly affect performance when using MSDE.
Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
Nov 19 '05 #8

P: n/a
Like all versions of SQL Server 2000, SQL Server 2000 Personal Edition
and MSDE 2000 allow 32,767 connections to an instance of the database
engine.

There is no limit for the number of connections that can be executing operations
at the same time. The only effect of the workload governor is that it starts slowing
down the database engine when more than eight operations are actively running
at the same time.

Once it has been activated, the workload governor limits performance by stalling
a user connection for a few milliseconds each time the connection requests a logical
read or write on any of the pages in the data files of a database.
(The governor does not affect log files.)

The database engine waits before every data page reference as long as there
are more than eight active concurrent operations. When the number of active
operations is eight or lower, the database engine does not wait before scheduling
any reads or writes.

50 simultaneous users does *not* equal 50 simultaneous connections.

Users do *not* request database operations at all times they are connected.

Some time is spent reading the results, too, which downlevels
the number of connections being accessed simultaneously.

A few milliseconds delay for an MSDE read/write operation is negligible,
and *no* read/write operation will be denied.

In any case, performance will be better for an MSDE database
than for an Access database when users are approximately 50.


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
news:3l********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:

¤ Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
¤ worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
¤ users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
¤ Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
¤ backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
¤ change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
¤ any way?
¤

As Bob mentioned in one of his posts you may want to keep in mind the that MSDE has a
Workload
Governor that will throttle connections when there are more than eight concurrent
operations. This
could perceptibly affect performance when using MSDE.
Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)


Nov 19 '05 #9

P: n/a
Hi Dan:

In addition to the other good advice, I'll point out the moving to
MSDE now will put you in an easier position to move to SQL 2005
Express when it ships. There is no workload governor in 2005 and the
feature set compared to Access is even greater.

--
Scott
http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
any way?


Nov 19 '05 #10

P: n/a
Thanks for this excellent informative post.

"Juan T. Llibre" <no***********@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eN**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Like all versions of SQL Server 2000, SQL Server 2000 Personal Edition
and MSDE 2000 allow 32,767 connections to an instance of the database
engine.

There is no limit for the number of connections that can be executing operations at the same time. The only effect of the workload governor is that it starts slowing down the database engine when more than eight operations are actively running at the same time.

Once it has been activated, the workload governor limits performance by stalling a user connection for a few milliseconds each time the connection requests a logical read or write on any of the pages in the data files of a database.
(The governor does not affect log files.)

The database engine waits before every data page reference as long as there are more than eight active concurrent operations. When the number of active operations is eight or lower, the database engine does not wait before scheduling any reads or writes.

50 simultaneous users does *not* equal 50 simultaneous connections.

Users do *not* request database operations at all times they are connected.
Some time is spent reading the results, too, which downlevels
the number of connections being accessed simultaneously.

A few milliseconds delay for an MSDE read/write operation is negligible,
and *no* read/write operation will be denied.

In any case, performance will be better for an MSDE database
than for an Access database when users are approximately 50.


Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
news:3l********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:

¤ Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net ¤ worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human ¤ users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user. ¤ Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database ¤ backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous ¤ change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in ¤ any way?
¤

As Bob mentioned in one of his posts you may want to keep in mind the that MSDE has a Workload
Governor that will throttle connections when there are more than eight concurrent operations. This
could perceptibly affect performance when using MSDE.
Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)


Nov 19 '05 #11

P: n/a
Good point, Scott !
Juan T. Llibre
ASP.NET MVP
http://asp.net.do/foros/
Foros de ASP.NET en Español
Ven, y hablemos de ASP.NET...
======================

"Scott Allen" <sc***@nospam.odetocode.com> wrote in message
news:g0********************************@4ax.com...
Hi Dan:

In addition to the other good advice, I'll point out the moving to
MSDE now will put you in an easier position to move to SQL 2005
Express when it ships. There is no workload governor in 2005 and the
feature set compared to Access is even greater.

--
Scott
http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_net
worker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous human
users of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.
Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) database
backend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageous
change to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
any way?

Nov 19 '05 #12

P: n/a
That's another clincher!
Now I'm curious as to the increased feature set...:) I'll find out
eventually.

"Scott Allen" <sc***@nospam.odetocode.com> wrote in message
news:g0********************************@4ax.com...
Hi Dan:

In addition to the other good advice, I'll point out the moving to
MSDE now will put you in an easier position to move to SQL 2005
Express when it ships. There is no workload governor in 2005 and the
feature set compared to Access is even greater.

--
Scott
http://www.OdeToCode.com/blogs/scott/

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:22:40 -0400, "Dan V." <da**@yah.com> wrote:
Since an ASP.NET/ADO.NET website is run on the server by a single "asp_networker process", therefore doesn't that mean that even 50 simultaneous humanusers of the website would appear to the database backend as a single user.Therefore, wouldn't switching our Access (actually Jet 4.0 OLEDB) databasebackend on our ASP.NET/ADO.NET website to an MSDE backend be an advantageouschange to make while NOT limiting the number of simultaneous web users in
any way?

Nov 19 '05 #13

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.