ViewState vs Session

If you are aware of the technical differences, why are you asking the
question? The answer should be obvious.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Vishwanathan Raman" <Vi***************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:D7**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi

I am aware of the technical differences.But would like to get it
clarified.Given an oppurtunity is ViewState storage more efficient than
Session based.I do not have a scenario where I need to share information
across pages but have lots of information to cache for that page.Can you
please advise which is the efficient way to do it.The page is a search
function which has a minimum of 10000 visitors per day.

Regards
Vishwanathan

Nov 19 '05 #6

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:00:24 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:

If you are aware of the technical differences, why are you asking the
question? The answer should be obvious.

Wow. I also just read another message from Kevin a few minutes ago in
a different thread where he said, in response to a legitimate
question:

"Well, you're probably not going to like this one, but I would suggest
learning something about what you're doing, rather than just doing
it."

I said some nice things about MVP's in a thread a while ago where that
guy rhat was ragging on MVP's to get a "J.O.B." - I may have to take
some of them back...

Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Nov 19 '05 #7

> Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife

leave you? IRS audit? What?
Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science. It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at. There
are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"), and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:2f********************************@4ax.com... On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:00:24 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:
If you are aware of the technical differences, why are you asking the
question? The answer should be obvious.

Wow. I also just read another message from Kevin a few minutes ago in
a different thread where he said, in response to a legitimate
question:

"Well, you're probably not going to like this one, but I would suggest
learning something about what you're doing, rather than just doing
it."

I said some nice things about MVP's in a thread a while ago where that
guy rhat was ragging on MVP's to get a "J.O.B." - I may have to take
some of them back...

Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Nov 19 '05 #8

Karl Seguin

I want to participate in this thread, but it's too inflammatory for my
particular mood today. Let me say this, your last paragraph was completely
out of line.

karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/ - New and Improved (yes, the popup is
annoying)
http://www.openmymind.net/faq.aspx - unofficial newsgroup FAQ (more to
come!)
"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:2f********************************@4ax.com...

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:00:24 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:
If you are aware of the technical differences, why are you asking the
question? The answer should be obvious.

Wow. I also just read another message from Kevin a few minutes ago in
a different thread where he said, in response to a legitimate
question:

"Well, you're probably not going to like this one, but I would suggest
learning something about what you're doing, rather than just doing
it."

I said some nice things about MVP's in a thread a while ago where that
guy rhat was ragging on MVP's to get a "J.O.B." - I may have to take
some of them back...

Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Nov 19 '05 #9

Kris

Kevin Spencer wrote:

Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science. It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at. There
are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"), and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Oh what a snob! So much for being a MVP.

Nov 19 '05 #10

Josh

> Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Wrong dude. Its creative, inventive and is a progressing art.

It requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.
Dead Right.

There are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP
was (was talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"), and
was now attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word
programming discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed to hear, that
one should not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the
discipline and work necessary to be successful in them.
Your presumption is wrong. he asked about Efficiency, which incidentally is
not straightforward, and you ignored it.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences" between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical
differences between them, one must know the technical details of each. If
that is so, one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it.
I'm not sure what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and
false. Since programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to
illustrate the point.
You never went beyond "rude". By your logic, the existance of these groups
serve no useful purpose. therefore you are here for no useful purpose. Eh?
Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it."
He obviously left out the bit about showing human compassion.
What this means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most
bitter of truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are
communicating with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be
willing to endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be
helpful if one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals,
rather than the tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in
sickness, while loving the doctor who has given them a clean bill of
health?
.... but if someone has bad BO, do you simply say. "You stink get a bath!"
or do you ask like a decent person. the latter I hope.

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.
Self justification of rudeness is meerly an exercise in Ego support.
And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Are you a Baptist?

Nov 19 '05 #11

Since your reply was as rude as you accuse me of being, I'll take it for
what it's worth.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Josh" <s@a.com> wrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Wrong dude. Its creative, inventive and is a progressing art.
It requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.

Dead Right.

There are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP
was (was talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"), and
was now attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word
programming discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed to hear,
that one should not fool around with such technologies, but should
undertake the discipline and work necessary to be successful in them.

Your presumption is wrong. he asked about Efficiency, which incidentally
is not straightforward, and you ignored it.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences" between Session and ViewState. In order to know the
technical differences between them, one must know the technical details
of each. If that is so, one knows which one to use, when to use it, and
how to use it. I'm not sure what he was trying to imply, but it was
unnecessary and false. Since programming involves a relentless logic, I
used logic to illustrate the point.

You never went beyond "rude". By your logic, the existance of these
groups serve no useful purpose. therefore you are here for no useful
purpose. Eh?
Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear
it."

He obviously left out the bit about showing human compassion.
What this means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most
bitter of truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are
communicating with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be
willing to endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to
be helpful if one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals,
rather than the tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in
sickness, while loving the doctor who has given them a clean bill of
health?

... but if someone has bad BO, do you simply say. "You stink get a bath!"
or do you ask like a decent person. the latter I hope.

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

Self justification of rudeness is meerly an exercise in Ego support.
And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Are you a Baptist?

Nov 19 '05 #12

> Oh what a snob! So much for being a MVP.

Hey, I may be arrogant, but I come by it honestly!

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kris" <kr**@freemail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Kevin Spencer wrote:
Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science. It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.
There are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP
was (was talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),
and was now attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented
real-word programming discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed
to hear, that one should not fool around with such technologies, but
should undertake the discipline and work necessary to be successful in
them.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences" between Session and ViewState. In order to know the
technical differences between them, one must know the technical details
of each. If that is so, one knows which one to use, when to use it, and
how to use it. I'm not sure what he was trying to imply, but it was
unnecessary and false. Since programming involves a relentless logic, I
used logic to illustrate the point.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear
it." What this means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the
most bitter of truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they
are communicating with than their own reputation and/or comfort level,
and be willing to endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one
claim to be helpful if one is not willing to give the bitter medicine
that heals, rather than the tasty placebo that allows the patient to
continue in sickness, while loving the doctor who has given them a clean
bill of health?

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Oh what a snob! So much for being a MVP.

Nov 19 '05 #13

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:24:21 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:

Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?
Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Uhhh... no it's not. I suppose it *can* be, under certain
circumstances. Like, maybe writing the code that runs the Space
Shuttle or controls a heart defibrillator. But 95% of the time it's
more of an art form, and is often not serious at all.

It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.
Speak for yourself. It's okay that you find it so difficult, but some
of us don't. Sure, there's a lot to know, and there's always more to
learn, but I think you're over-dramatizing the "hard work" and
"continuous study". I find it to be a lighter endeavor than that, and
I've been successful at it for almost 30 years now.
There
are no short-cuts.
Sure there are. Lots of them. Usenet newsgroups, for example.
The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),
I realize that you didn't understand what he meant. But I did.
and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt.
There's that over-dramtization again. Lighten up.
I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.
Utter nonsense. I say - welcome to all who want to try programming,
in any language and using any tools. More power to them. Let them
indulge in it very seriously, or frivolously or anywhere in between.
For fun, or for profit. For a hobby, of for a career. Whatever.

And I thought MVP's were supposed to be here to help.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.

<yawn> Jeeze... lighten up. All you really did was snap out a
cranky and discouraging snide posting.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?

Jeeeeeze....

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.
No. Not satisfacory at all. I still think your cranky diatribes were
uncalled for and unnecessarily discouraging. And I think they were
unbecoming of an MVP. If you have nothing helpful to say, then why
not just let it pass and remain silent. Maybe someone else could
actually *help* the person looking for a little aid.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Nov 19 '05 #14

Alright guys, I think this thread has out-lived it's usefulness. It's become
rather one sided too now. Personally I don't think (in fact I'm sure) Kevin
didn't mean to offend, although granted, on this occasion his comments were
about as helpful to the OP as all your subsequent ones AND this one! And we
all say things that are sometimes misinterpreted.

So unless anyone's got anything else constructive for Vishwanathan, lets
call it a day?

Please :)

Nov 19 '05 #15

Welll, Wilbur, not only are you entitled to your opinion, as am I, but as we
all know, everybody has one. Apparently you think yours is better-smelling
than mine.

Personally, from working with other developers over quite a number of years,
and after having had to clean up after entirely too many of them, who manage
to make something "work" (sort of) long enough to move on to something else,
get fired, or laterally-promoted, and being a lover of the art/science of
programming, I suppose I have become a bit cranky. But perhaps you're just a
hobbyist who works all by himself, just for the fun of it, and you haven't
experienced the nightmarish scenarios that I have. Perhaps you're not paid
for your work, or simply don't feel any responsibility to your employer, who
has to pay for all the extra work hours cause by lazy, inept, or unethical
developers whose work has to be re-done by competent and diligent
developers, who take twice as long to rewrite the software, partially
because the original is such a tangled mess of disorder and chaos.

But I just can't live with myself if I waste someone else's money, and I
don't believe that anyone should. Underneath it all, programming is
mathematical in nature, and math hates inelegance. So do I. So sue me. I'm
used to it.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:oq********************************@4ax.com...

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:24:21 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:
Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Uhhh... no it's not. I suppose it *can* be, under certain
circumstances. Like, maybe writing the code that runs the Space
Shuttle or controls a heart defibrillator. But 95% of the time it's
more of an art form, and is often not serious at all.

It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.

Speak for yourself. It's okay that you find it so difficult, but some
of us don't. Sure, there's a lot to know, and there's always more to
learn, but I think you're over-dramatizing the "hard work" and
"continuous study". I find it to be a lighter endeavor than that, and
I've been successful at it for almost 30 years now.
There
are no short-cuts.

Sure there are. Lots of them. Usenet newsgroups, for example.
The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),

I realize that you didn't understand what he meant. But I did.
and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt.

There's that over-dramtization again. Lighten up.
I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the
discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.

Utter nonsense. I say - welcome to all who want to try programming,
in any language and using any tools. More power to them. Let them
indulge in it very seriously, or frivolously or anywhere in between.
For fun, or for profit. For a hobby, of for a career. Whatever.

And I thought MVP's were supposed to be here to help.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not
sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.

<yawn> Jeeze... lighten up. All you really did was snap out a
cranky and discouraging snide posting.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What
this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful
if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while
loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?

Jeeeeeze....

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

No. Not satisfacory at all. I still think your cranky diatribes were
uncalled for and unnecessarily discouraging. And I think they were
unbecoming of an MVP. If you have nothing helpful to say, then why
not just let it pass and remain silent. Maybe someone else could
actually *help* the person looking for a little aid.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Nov 19 '05 #16

George

I stand behind you Kevin :)
The most annoying people is those who does not want to spend 30 minutes of their time to educate themselves and would rather spend our time by asking a question to forget the answer next day.

But usually i do not bother to answer those questions.

George.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Oh what a snob! So much for being a MVP.
Hey, I may be arrogant, but I come by it honestly!

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kris" <kr**@freemail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Kevin Spencer wrote:
Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science. It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.
There are no short-cuts. The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP
was (was talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),
and was now attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented
real-word programming discipline of ASP.Nedt. I told him what he needed
to hear, that one should not fool around with such technologies, but
should undertake the discipline and work necessary to be successful in
them.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences" between Session and ViewState. In order to know the
technical differences between them, one must know the technical details
of each. If that is so, one knows which one to use, when to use it, and
how to use it. I'm not sure what he was trying to imply, but it was
unnecessary and false. Since programming involves a relentless logic, I
used logic to illustrate the point.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear
it." What this means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the
most bitter of truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they
are communicating with than their own reputation and/or comfort level,
and be willing to endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one
claim to be helpful if one is not willing to give the bitter medicine
that heals, rather than the tasty placebo that allows the patient to
continue in sickness, while loving the doctor who has given them a clean
bill of health?

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Oh what a snob! So much for being a MVP.

Nov 19 '05 #17

Forgive the butt kissing, but for whats it is worth I agree with everything
you have just said, but don't let the others know cos they'll probably give
me a mauling too.
Oh what the heck ....I don't care!
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:ua****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Welll, Wilbur, not only are you entitled to your opinion, as am I, but as
we all know, everybody has one. Apparently you think yours is
better-smelling than mine.

Personally, from working with other developers over quite a number of
years, and after having had to clean up after entirely too many of them,
who manage to make something "work" (sort of) long enough to move on to
something else, get fired, or laterally-promoted, and being a lover of the
art/science of programming, I suppose I have become a bit cranky. But
perhaps you're just a hobbyist who works all by himself, just for the fun
of it, and you haven't experienced the nightmarish scenarios that I have.
Perhaps you're not paid for your work, or simply don't feel any
responsibility to your employer, who has to pay for all the extra work
hours cause by lazy, inept, or unethical developers whose work has to be
re-done by competent and diligent developers, who take twice as long to
rewrite the software, partially because the original is such a tangled
mess of disorder and chaos.

But I just can't live with myself if I waste someone else's money, and I
don't believe that anyone should. Underneath it all, programming is
mathematical in nature, and math hates inelegance. So do I. So sue me. I'm
used to it.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:oq********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:24:21 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:
Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Uhhh... no it's not. I suppose it *can* be, under certain
circumstances. Like, maybe writing the code that runs the Space
Shuttle or controls a heart defibrillator. But 95% of the time it's
more of an art form, and is often not serious at all.

It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.

Speak for yourself. It's okay that you find it so difficult, but some
of us don't. Sure, there's a lot to know, and there's always more to
learn, but I think you're over-dramatizing the "hard work" and
"continuous study". I find it to be a lighter endeavor than that, and
I've been successful at it for almost 30 years now.
There
are no short-cuts.

Sure there are. Lots of them. Usenet newsgroups, for example.
The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),

I realize that you didn't understand what he meant. But I did.
and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word
programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt.

There's that over-dramtization again. Lighten up.
I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the
discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.

Utter nonsense. I say - welcome to all who want to try programming,
in any language and using any tools. More power to them. Let them
indulge in it very seriously, or frivolously or anywhere in between.
For fun, or for profit. For a hobby, of for a career. Whatever.

And I thought MVP's were supposed to be here to help.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not
sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.

<yawn> Jeeze... lighten up. All you really did was snap out a
cranky and discouraging snide posting.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What
this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful
if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than
the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while
loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?

Jeeeeeze....

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has been
satisfactory in doing so.

No. Not satisfacory at all. I still think your cranky diatribes were
uncalled for and unnecessarily discouraging. And I think they were
unbecoming of an MVP. If you have nothing helpful to say, then why
not just let it pass and remain silent. Maybe someone else could
actually *help* the person looking for a little aid.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Nov 19 '05 #18

Thank you, Mark!

An interesting side note: I just had my morning chat with our CTO, who was
here until 10:00 PM last night, fixing some code that was left behind by an
erstwhile developer. He told me that he had such trouble figuring it out
that he sent a copy to AMX, and that when he got on the phone with their
support guy, the support guy "laughed in my ear for 5 minutes." Of course,
he didn't think it was so funny. The poor fellow is badly in need of a
vacation!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Mark Broadbent" <no****@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uh**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...

Forgive the butt kissing, but for whats it is worth I agree with
everything you have just said, but don't let the others know cos they'll
probably give me a mauling too.
Oh what the heck ....I don't care!
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:ua****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Welll, Wilbur, not only are you entitled to your opinion, as am I, but as
we all know, everybody has one. Apparently you think yours is
better-smelling than mine.

Personally, from working with other developers over quite a number of
years, and after having had to clean up after entirely too many of them,
who manage to make something "work" (sort of) long enough to move on to
something else, get fired, or laterally-promoted, and being a lover of
the art/science of programming, I suppose I have become a bit cranky. But
perhaps you're just a hobbyist who works all by himself, just for the fun
of it, and you haven't experienced the nightmarish scenarios that I have.
Perhaps you're not paid for your work, or simply don't feel any
responsibility to your employer, who has to pay for all the extra work
hours cause by lazy, inept, or unethical developers whose work has to be
re-done by competent and diligent developers, who take twice as long to
rewrite the software, partially because the original is such a tangled
mess of disorder and chaos.

But I just can't live with myself if I waste someone else's money, and I
don't believe that anyone should. Underneath it all, programming is
mathematical in nature, and math hates inelegance. So do I. So sue me.
I'm used to it.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:oq********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:24:21 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:

> Whatsamatter, Kevin, get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Wife
> leave you? IRS audit? What?

Not at all. Programming is a serious discipline, and an exact science.

Uhhh... no it's not. I suppose it *can* be, under certain
circumstances. Like, maybe writing the code that runs the Space
Shuttle or controls a heart defibrillator. But 95% of the time it's
more of an art form, and is often not serious at all.
It
requires much and continuous study and hard work to be successful at.

Speak for yourself. It's okay that you find it so difficult, but some
of us don't. Sure, there's a lot to know, and there's always more to
learn, but I think you're over-dramatizing the "hard work" and
"continuous study". I find it to be a lighter endeavor than that, and
I've been successful at it for almost 30 years now.

There
are no short-cuts.

Sure there are. Lots of them. Usenet newsgroups, for example.

The first poster obviously had no idea what ASP was (was
talking about "on Normal HTML tags, I can do the following"),

I realize that you didn't understand what he meant. But I did.

and was now
attempting to delve into the complex object-oriented real-word
programming
discipline of ASP.Nedt.

There's that over-dramtization again. Lighten up.

I told him what he needed to hear, that one should
not fool around with such technologies, but should undertake the
discipline
and work necessary to be successful in them.

Utter nonsense. I say - welcome to all who want to try programming,
in any language and using any tools. More power to them. Let them
indulge in it very seriously, or frivolously or anywhere in between.
For fun, or for profit. For a hobby, of for a career. Whatever.

And I thought MVP's were supposed to be here to help.

The second person began by stating that he knew the "technical
differences"
between Session and ViewState. In order to know the technical
differences
between them, one must know the technical details of each. If that is
so,
one knows which one to use, when to use it, and how to use it. I'm not
sure
what he was trying to imply, but it was unnecessary and false. Since
programming involves a relentless logic, I used logic to illustrate the
point.
<yawn> Jeeze... lighten up. All you really did was snap out a
cranky and discouraging snide posting.

Now I realize that telling people the hard truths of life is not a
pleasant
task, but as my Uncle Chutney sez, "if the truth hurts, wear it." What
this
means is that the sweetest of lies is more bitter than the most bitter
of
truths. Somebody has to care more about the person they are
communicating
with than their own reputation and/or comfort level, and be willing to
endure scorn and criticism for doing so. How can one claim to be helpful
if
one is not willing to give the bitter medicine that heals, rather than
the
tasty placebo that allows the patient to continue in sickness, while
loving
the doctor who has given them a clean bill of health?
Jeeeeeze....

If you read the majority of my messages, you will see that I bend over
backwards to help those who are at all willing to help themselves. Since
your question is not of a confrontational and accusatory nature, that
includes yourself, and your question! I hope that my explanation has
been
satisfactory in doing so.

No. Not satisfacory at all. I still think your cranky diatribes were
uncalled for and unnecessarily discouraging. And I think they were
unbecoming of an MVP. If you have nothing helpful to say, then why
not just let it pass and remain silent. Maybe someone else could
actually *help* the person looking for a little aid.

And now, back to my diet of locusts and wild honey.....

Nov 19 '05 #19

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:48:19 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:

Welll, Wilbur, not only are you entitled to your opinion, as am I, but as we
all know, everybody has one. Apparently you think yours is better-smelling
than mine.

Personally, from working with other developers over quite a number of years,
and after having had to clean up after entirely too many of them, who manage
to make something "work" (sort of) long enough to move on to something else,
get fired, or laterally-promoted, and being a lover of the art/science of
programming, I suppose I have become a bit cranky. But perhaps you're just a
hobbyist who works all by himself, just for the fun of it, and you haven't
experienced the nightmarish scenarios that I have. Perhaps you're not paid
for your work, or simply don't feel any responsibility to your employer, who
has to pay for all the extra work hours cause by lazy, inept, or unethical
developers whose work has to be re-done by competent and diligent
developers, who take twice as long to rewrite the software, partially
because the original is such a tangled mess of disorder and chaos.

But I just can't live with myself if I waste someone else's money, and I
don't believe that anyone should. Underneath it all, programming is
mathematical in nature, and math hates inelegance. So do I. So sue me. I'm
used to it.

Wow. You sound like a very ethical programmer, always scrupulously
doing the Right Thing by your employers. They must love you.

I've been programming and designing software profressionally (my only
source of income) for almost 30 years.

And I have NEVER been sued. I've never had to get "used to it."

Nov 19 '05 #20

Manny

It was not so difficult to figure this out:

George = Mark Broadbend = Kevin Spencer

Nov 19 '05 #21

Well, Wilbur, I love a good argument.

But this isn't one.

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Wilbur Slice" <pa@papapapa.com> wrote in message
news:r3********************************@4ax.com...

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:48:19 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:
Welll, Wilbur, not only are you entitled to your opinion, as am I, but as
we
all know, everybody has one. Apparently you think yours is better-smelling
than mine.

Personally, from working with other developers over quite a number of
years,
and after having had to clean up after entirely too many of them, who
manage
to make something "work" (sort of) long enough to move on to something
else,
get fired, or laterally-promoted, and being a lover of the art/science of
programming, I suppose I have become a bit cranky. But perhaps you're just
a
hobbyist who works all by himself, just for the fun of it, and you haven't
experienced the nightmarish scenarios that I have. Perhaps you're not paid
for your work, or simply don't feel any responsibility to your employer,
who
has to pay for all the extra work hours cause by lazy, inept, or unethical
developers whose work has to be re-done by competent and diligent
developers, who take twice as long to rewrite the software, partially
because the original is such a tangled mess of disorder and chaos.

But I just can't live with myself if I waste someone else's money, and I
don't believe that anyone should. Underneath it all, programming is
mathematical in nature, and math hates inelegance. So do I. So sue me. I'm
used to it.

Wow. You sound like a very ethical programmer, always scrupulously
doing the Right Thing by your employers. They must love you.

I've been programming and designing software profressionally (my only
source of income) for almost 30 years.

And I have NEVER been sued. I've never had to get "used to it."

Nov 19 '05 #22

Hey, George, Mark, guess what? You're both me!

Hey Manny - do you program with that logic? You don't know where it's been!

--
ROFLMOD!

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Manny" <Ma***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1C**********************************@microsof t.com...

It was not so difficult to figure this out:

George = Mark Broadbend = Kevin Spencer

Nov 19 '05 #23

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:50:12 -0400, "Kevin Spencer"
<ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote:

Well, Wilbur, I love a good argument.

But this isn't one.

Is too.

:)

Nov 19 '05 #24

Hey Manny, you are a genius! How long did it take you to figure this out.
Hey Kevin since I'm you can you hand me back my MVP so I can attach it to my
CV ....
oh I see George has already got it :-)

Thanks Manny, not laughed this much since...... probably since your last
stupid stupid suggestion. Oh by the way try spelling my name right next time
buddy (although conceptually they are the same).

"Manny" <Ma***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1C**********************************@microsof t.com...

It was not so difficult to figure this out:

George = Mark Broadbend = Kevin Spencer

Nov 19 '05 #25

Patrice

As always a trade off :
- using memory on the server vs passing back and forth data in the viewstate

It might be possible to well organize your code so that you can easily
swictch from one model to the other...

Patrice

--

"Vishwanathan Raman" <Vi***************@discussions.microsoft.com> a écrit
dans le message de
news:D7**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi

I am aware of the technical differences.But would like to get it
clarified.Given an oppurtunity is ViewState storage more efficient than
Session based.I do not have a scenario where I need to share information
across pages but have lots of information to cache for that page.Can you
please advise which is the efficient way to do it.The page is a search
function which has a minimum of 10000 visitors per day.

Regards
Vishwanathan

Nov 19 '05 #26

Very clever, Mark. Pretending not to be me and/or George in order to confuse
Manny. And of course George already has it, since he's you! I mean Me! Or
perhaps we are all Uncle Chutney!

--
ROFLMOD,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Mark Broadbent" <no****@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hey Manny, you are a genius! How long did it take you to figure this out.
Hey Kevin since I'm you can you hand me back my MVP so I can attach it to
my CV ....
oh I see George has already got it :-)

Thanks Manny, not laughed this much since...... probably since your last
stupid stupid suggestion. Oh by the way try spelling my name right next
time buddy (although conceptually they are the same).

"Manny" <Ma***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1C**********************************@microsof t.com...
It was not so difficult to figure this out:

George = Mark Broadbend = Kevin Spencer

Nov 19 '05 #27