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Learning .NET

P: n/a
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.

Nov 19 '05 #1
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25 Replies


P: n/a
Join the club. The huge reference book is actually a collection of huge reference books the official being the MSDN resources. If its any consolation they say Java is even more complex which may be why we see a fair number of defectors.
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #2

P: n/a
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #3

P: n/a
Learning .NET (or any other comprehensive collection development libraries) is a lot like learning geography. 99% of developers, even perceived experts, learn only what is relevent to their specific point of reference. For example, a developer at a financial institution would be more familiar with the mathematical and database related functions than they would the functions related to graphics or system programming. Other developers may be familiar with most everything but weak on web development. There are some books specifically for existing developers migrate from another development platform like Visual Basic to .NET.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you
need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I
guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.


Such is life - that's what MSDN is for : )

Certain functions work better in certain situations, but sometimes it is
personal preference too.

--
Lucas Tam (RE********@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Nov 19 '05 #5

P: n/a
1. It's more realistic to approach it as [learning how everything is organized] as opposed to [learning everything]. Unlike other platforms or prior platforms, the documentation included with .NET is truly useful and well-organized. Learn how the framework is organized and how the documentatino is organized and you'll be well on your way.

2. If you were hiring someone for a .NET programming position (or any programming position, really), would you go with the person who [claims to know everything] (impossible), or the person who [claims to be able to learn quickly that which is relevant to the problem domain]?


"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #6

P: n/a
You only need to know what you need to know, until a new bit of knowledge is required. Microsoft provide MSDN and documentation with the SDK and VS.NET to tell you about all the bits you dont know you need yet.

Start with the quickstart, it covers most of the basics of what every developer needs - the rest is specific to what your trying to do.

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #7

P: n/a
"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web development?)
...Resulted in some of the worst examples of web design ever seen. At one point at my company they actually did give the receptionist frontpage and tasked her with designing the company web site. Just one of the highlights was a 2mb animated gif on the index page. They soon got somebody else to do it properly.
I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.



"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #8

P: n/a
> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to
the field of web development?)


Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done with
Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do. Yes, you
can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time applications
with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about programming. However,
as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very most, perhaps one-tenth of
what sort of applications are being developed, and what sort of uses Visual
Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't use
NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But as far
as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components go, I'm afraid
that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more. And Visual Studio.Net
has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in all my years of
programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my job, and while VS.Net
certainly extends my productivity, the problems I work on continue to expand
to fit my current ever-expanding capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate marketing
there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup if you think
anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage and no prior
knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers are as
smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a substitute for
knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that believes otherwise will
never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so easy
that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in their
downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in notepad
and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know
what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm
a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #9

P: n/a
Excellent advice, John, and you took the words right out of my mouth. How do
you eat an elephant? One byte at a time! There is a darned good reason why
courses for virtually any programming language begin with a simple "Hello
World" application, that does one thing: Output. Start small, and if you are
inclined to use tutorials and such, the QuickStarts are excellent ways to
start. As for myself, I generally create my own small exercises, based upon
my general area of initial interest, and create ever-increasingly larger
projects as I go.

After a dozen years as a programmer, I'm still learning, increasing my
knowledge, and reading something new every day, and I hope I never stop!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"John Timney (ASP.NET MVP)" <ti*****@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
You only need to know what you need to know, until a new bit of knowledge is
required. Microsoft provide MSDN and documentation with the SDK and VS.NET
to tell you about all the bits you dont know you need yet.

Start with the quickstart, it covers most of the basics of what every
developer needs - the rest is specific to what your trying to do.

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know
what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm
a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
Nov 19 '05 #10

P: n/a
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual Studio
using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that Visual
Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it the right
way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a lot of money
to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was just someone who
knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was a huge boom of crappy
websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than developing in
notepad is that you can type an object name and then the '.' and all of its
properties and methods appear there. This is a great way for beginners to
learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices, such
as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything, but
will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only rude to
make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to
the field of web development?)


Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done with
Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do. Yes, you
can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time applications
with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about programming.
However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very most, perhaps
one-tenth of what sort of applications are being developed, and what sort
of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't use
NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But as far
as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components go, I'm
afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more. And Visual
Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in all my years
of programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my job, and while
VS.Net certainly extends my productivity, the problems I work on continue
to expand to fit my current ever-expanding capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup if
you think anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage and no
prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers are
as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a substitute
for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that believes otherwise
will never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in
their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know
what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess
I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.

Nov 19 '05 #11

P: n/a
> And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything,
but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this
newsgroup.
Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being "FEMALE"? For
all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who, in fact, has now
announced to the world that they are sexist? The only thing I held against
you was irresponsibility in making a remark that is not only unhelpful, but
harmful to anyone who believes it. Therefore, by your own logic ("it's not
only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of
this newsgroup") you are yourself guilty of what you condemn me for. Do you
have the character to admit it?

I was responding specifically to your statement (quoting again):
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to
the field of web development?)

Note that you did not qualify your statement. This statement was made, in
fact, to a person who admittedly knows very little and is looking for
reliable information. That information is simply misleading at best.
Programming is a serious discipline, and even people doing the most academic
of exercises using the "training wheels" that Visual Studio.Net makes
available for beginners have trouble doing them. They are here every day.
The idea that "receptionists doing it in their downtime" could begin to
program, even using Visual Studio.Net, is ludicrous. And when someone who
wants to learn comes here with a sincere question, and this type of answer
is given to them, I cannot keep silent. Not because I'm "sexist" but because
I care enough to risk the wrath of people like you, in order to give people
the truth they need to succeed.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual Studio
using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that Visual
Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it the right
way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a lot of money
to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was just someone who
knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was a huge boom of
crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than developing
in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the '.' and all of
its properties and methods appear there. This is a great way for beginners
to learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything,
but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this
newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to
the field of web development?)


Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done with
Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do. Yes,
you can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time
applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about
programming. However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very
most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of applications are being developed,
and what sort of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't
use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But
as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components go,
I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more. And
Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in all
my years of programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my job,
and while VS.Net certainly extends my productivity, the problems I work
on continue to expand to fit my current ever-expanding capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup
if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage and
no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers are
as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a substitute
for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that believes otherwise
will never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in
their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess
I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.


Nov 19 '05 #12

P: n/a
<<will have their receptionists doing it in their downtime>>
<<...was a huge boom of crappy websites>>

Hey! I'm a receptionist. I'm offended.


"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual Studio
using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that Visual
Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it the right
way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a lot of money
to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was just someone who
knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was a huge boom of
crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than developing
in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the '.' and all of
its properties and methods appear there. This is a great way for beginners
to learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything,
but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this
newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to
the field of web development?)


Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done with
Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do. Yes,
you can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time
applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about
programming. However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very
most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of applications are being developed,
and what sort of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't
use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But
as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components go,
I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more. And
Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in all
my years of programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my job,
and while VS.Net certainly extends my productivity, the problems I work
on continue to expand to fit my current ever-expanding capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup
if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage and
no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers are
as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a substitute
for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that believes otherwise
will never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in
their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess
I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.


Nov 19 '05 #13

P: n/a
Kevin Spencer shared this with us in
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best
practices, > such as using the Enterprise Library application
blocks for data access, > exception handling and logging. Maybe you
thought that since I'm FEMALE I > don't know anything about
programming, but notice that I didn't start my > response with
"Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything, > but
will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose

of this > newsgroup.


Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being
"FEMALE"? For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who,
in fact, has now announced to the world that they are sexist? The
only thing I held against you was irresponsibility in making a remark
that is not only unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it.
Therefore, by your own logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions
about people, but that's not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are
yourself guilty of what you condemn me for. Do you have the character
to admit it?


Kevin,

I can only agree because:
* the name of a poster is one of the least relevant pieces of
information in a newsgroup posting, according to MSR-TR-2001-93:
"Observed Behavior and Perceived Value of Authors in Usenet Newsgroups:
Bridging the Gap" by Andrew Fiore, Scott Lee Tiernan and Marc A. Smith
* sex is irrelevant in a quasi-anonymous medium like the internet

As for myself: my first name is known to be used for both males and
females, with sometimes very small differences in spelling and accents.

As for Kevin, I found two etymologies:
1. Anglicized form of the Irish name Caoimhín, derived from the older
Irish Coemgen, composed of the Old Irish elements coem "kind, gentle,
handsome" and gein "birth". Saint Caoimhin established a monastery in
Ireland and is the patron saint of Dublin. Definitely male.
2. form of Kenneth, either "handsome" from Gaelic Coinneach, or "born
of fire" from Gaelic Cinaed. The name of the first king of the Picts
and Scots. Also male, but the Gaelic Cinaed is the original form of
Sinead, the first name of a well-known female Irish singer. I bet you
never knew!
--
Amedee Van Gasse
Nov 19 '05 #14

P: n/a
Thank you, Amedee! I had never researched my first name so extensively,
although I was aware that it was basically Irish, and that one of the
definitons of it was "handsome." I've never thought of myself as
particularly handsome, but some women have told me otherwise from time to
time. I do know that my ancestry is both Irish and English, although my
personality is definitely more English! ;-)

So, what is the etymology of Amadee? I would have to guess that it is
similar to "Amadeus" which, I believe, means "Love of God."

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Amedee Van Gasse" <nz**************@rztebhc.or> wrote in message
news:Os*************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Kevin Spencer shared this with us in
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
> And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best
> practices, > such as using the Enterprise Library application
> blocks for data access, > exception handling and logging. Maybe you
> thought that since I'm FEMALE I > don't know anything about
> programming, but notice that I didn't start my > response with
> "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything, > but
> will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
> > rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose
> of this > newsgroup.


Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being
"FEMALE"? For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who,
in fact, has now announced to the world that they are sexist? The
only thing I held against you was irresponsibility in making a remark
that is not only unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it.
Therefore, by your own logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions
about people, but that's not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are
yourself guilty of what you condemn me for. Do you have the character
to admit it?


Kevin,

I can only agree because:
* the name of a poster is one of the least relevant pieces of
information in a newsgroup posting, according to MSR-TR-2001-93:
"Observed Behavior and Perceived Value of Authors in Usenet Newsgroups:
Bridging the Gap" by Andrew Fiore, Scott Lee Tiernan and Marc A. Smith
* sex is irrelevant in a quasi-anonymous medium like the internet

As for myself: my first name is known to be used for both males and
females, with sometimes very small differences in spelling and accents.

As for Kevin, I found two etymologies:
1. Anglicized form of the Irish name Caoimhín, derived from the older
Irish Coemgen, composed of the Old Irish elements coem "kind, gentle,
handsome" and gein "birth". Saint Caoimhin established a monastery in
Ireland and is the patron saint of Dublin. Definitely male.
2. form of Kenneth, either "handsome" from Gaelic Coinneach, or "born
of fire" from Gaelic Cinaed. The name of the first king of the Picts
and Scots. Also male, but the Gaelic Cinaed is the original form of
Sinead, the first name of a well-known female Irish singer. I bet you
never knew!
--
Amedee Van Gasse

Nov 19 '05 #15

P: n/a
<< For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names] (an
objective fact)
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or bias)

Therefore we can conclude that anyone named "Kim" is more likely to be male
than female, AND that KeviN Spencer and KiM Quigley are [more likely than
not] to see things "eye-to-eye".

-HTH
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:eP**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything,
but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this
newsgroup.


Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being "FEMALE"?
For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who, in fact, has
now announced to the world that they are sexist? The only thing I held
against you was irresponsibility in making a remark that is not only
unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it. Therefore, by your own
logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's
not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are yourself guilty of what you
condemn me for. Do you have the character to admit it?

I was responding specifically to your statement (quoting again):
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
to the field of web development?)


Note that you did not qualify your statement. This statement was made, in
fact, to a person who admittedly knows very little and is looking for
reliable information. That information is simply misleading at best.
Programming is a serious discipline, and even people doing the most
academic of exercises using the "training wheels" that Visual Studio.Net
makes available for beginners have trouble doing them. They are here every
day. The idea that "receptionists doing it in their downtime" could begin
to program, even using Visual Studio.Net, is ludicrous. And when someone
who wants to learn comes here with a sincere question, and this type of
answer is given to them, I cannot keep silent. Not because I'm "sexist"
but because I care enough to risk the wrath of people like you, in order
to give people the truth they need to succeed.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual Studio
using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that Visual
Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it the
right way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a lot
of money to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was just
someone who knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was a huge
boom of crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than developing
in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the '.' and all
of its properties and methods appear there. This is a great way for
beginners to learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE I
don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start my
response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows everything,
but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think it's not only
rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the purpose of this
newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their
receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
to the field of web development?)

Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done with
Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do. Yes,
you can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time
applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about
programming. However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very
most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of applications are being
developed, and what sort of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't
use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But
as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components go,
I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more. And
Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in all
my years of programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my job,
and while VS.Net certainly extends my productivity, the problems I work
on continue to expand to fit my current ever-expanding capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup
if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage
and no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers
are as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a
substitute for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that believes
otherwise will never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it
in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess
I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.



Nov 19 '05 #16

P: n/a
Hi Frankie,
1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)
Would that mean that you are more likely to be female?
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)
However, younger people in the U.S. (and I'm only guessing that Kim comes
from the U.S.) tend to be taller than older people statistically. The
average height of humans in the U.S. has been growing since WWII. So,
knowing that I'm 49, and assuming that Kim is much younger than I (again,
I'm only guessing), the height difference might be debatable. For the
record, I am 5' 10" tall.

--
ROFLMOD,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

Also, we need to take
"Frankie" <A@B.COM> wrote in message
news:O3**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl... << For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)

Therefore we can conclude that anyone named "Kim" is more likely to be
male than female, AND that KeviN Spencer and KiM Quigley are [more likely
than not] to see things "eye-to-eye".

-HTH
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:eP**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE
I don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start
my response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows
everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think
it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the
purpose of this newsgroup.


Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being "FEMALE"?
For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who, in fact, has
now announced to the world that they are sexist? The only thing I held
against you was irresponsibility in making a remark that is not only
unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it. Therefore, by your own
logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's
not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are yourself guilty of what you
condemn me for. Do you have the character to admit it?

I was responding specifically to your statement (quoting again):
> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
> easy that pretty soon companies will have their
> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
> to the field of web development?)


Note that you did not qualify your statement. This statement was made, in
fact, to a person who admittedly knows very little and is looking for
reliable information. That information is simply misleading at best.
Programming is a serious discipline, and even people doing the most
academic of exercises using the "training wheels" that Visual Studio.Net
makes available for beginners have trouble doing them. They are here
every day. The idea that "receptionists doing it in their downtime" could
begin to program, even using Visual Studio.Net, is ludicrous. And when
someone who wants to learn comes here with a sincere question, and this
type of answer is given to them, I cannot keep silent. Not because I'm
"sexist" but because I care enough to risk the wrath of people like you,
in order to give people the truth they need to succeed.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual
Studio using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that
Visual Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it
the right way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a
lot of money to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was
just someone who knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was a
huge boom of crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than
developing in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the
'.' and all of its properties and methods appear there. This is a great
way for beginners to learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data access,
exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since I'm FEMALE
I don't know anything about programming, but notice that I didn't start
my response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he knows
everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I think
it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's not the
purpose of this newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
> easy that pretty soon companies will have their
> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
> to the field of web development?)

Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.

You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done
with Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do.
Yes, you can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time
applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about
programming. However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very
most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of applications are being
developed, and what sort of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.

I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't
use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it. But
as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made components
go, I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much much more.
And Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build them. Still, in
all my years of programming, it has never gotten to be "easy" to do my
job, and while VS.Net certainly extends my productivity, the problems I
work on continue to expand to fit my current ever-expanding
capabilities.

As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage newsgroup
if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with FrontPage
and no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.

There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers
are as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a
substitute for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that
believes otherwise will never rise to their potential.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it
in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
development?)

I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need
without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess
I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.



Nov 19 '05 #17

P: n/a
<< Would that mean that you are more likely to be female?>>

Likely - yes. Actually - no (in fact, it's quite an assumption to think my
first name is in fact Frankie!).


"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uh**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi Frankie,
1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)


Would that mean that you are more likely to be female?
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)


However, younger people in the U.S. (and I'm only guessing that Kim comes
from the U.S.) tend to be taller than older people statistically. The
average height of humans in the U.S. has been growing since WWII. So,
knowing that I'm 49, and assuming that Kim is much younger than I (again,
I'm only guessing), the height difference might be debatable. For the
record, I am 5' 10" tall.

--
ROFLMOD,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

Also, we need to take
"Frankie" <A@B.COM> wrote in message
news:O3**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
<< For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)

Therefore we can conclude that anyone named "Kim" is more likely to be
male than female, AND that KeviN Spencer and KiM Quigley are [more likely
than not] to see things "eye-to-eye".

-HTH
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:eP**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data
access, exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since
I'm FEMALE I don't know anything about programming, but notice that I
didn't start my response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he
knows everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I
think it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's
not the purpose of this newsgroup.

Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being "FEMALE"?
For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who, in fact, has
now announced to the world that they are sexist? The only thing I held
against you was irresponsibility in making a remark that is not only
unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it. Therefore, by your own
logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's
not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are yourself guilty of what you
condemn me for. Do you have the character to admit it?

I was responding specifically to your statement (quoting again):

>> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications
>> so easy that pretty soon companies will have their
>> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
>> to the field of web development?)

Note that you did not qualify your statement. This statement was made,
in fact, to a person who admittedly knows very little and is looking for
reliable information. That information is simply misleading at best.
Programming is a serious discipline, and even people doing the most
academic of exercises using the "training wheels" that Visual Studio.Net
makes available for beginners have trouble doing them. They are here
every day. The idea that "receptionists doing it in their downtime"
could begin to program, even using Visual Studio.Net, is ludicrous. And
when someone who wants to learn comes here with a sincere question, and
this type of answer is given to them, I cannot keep silent. Not because
I'm "sexist" but because I care enough to risk the wrath of people like
you, in order to give people the truth they need to succeed.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual
Studio using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that
Visual Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do it
the right way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies paid a
lot of money to hire web developers (and back then a web developer was
just someone who knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came out, there was
a huge boom of crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed web developers?

One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than
developing in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the
'.' and all of its properties and methods appear there. This is a great
way for beginners to learn about what objects can do.

And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best practices,
such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for data
access, exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that since
I'm FEMALE I don't know anything about programming, but notice that I
didn't start my response with "Just another sexist moron who thinks he
knows everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..." because I
think it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but that's
not the purpose of this newsgroup.
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications
>> so easy that pretty soon companies will have their
>> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did
>> to the field of web development?)
>
> Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.
>
> You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done
> with Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications do.
> Yes, you can write some very simple, very common, and very small-time
> applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know next-to-nothing about
> programming. However, as I mentioned, that accounts for, at the very
> most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of applications are being
> developed, and what sort of uses Visual Studio.Net is designed for.
>
> I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly don't
> use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of it.
> But as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made
> components go, I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much
> much more. And Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build
> them. Still, in all my years of programming, it has never gotten to be
> "easy" to do my job, and while VS.Net certainly extends my
> productivity, the problems I work on continue to expand to fit my
> current ever-expanding capabilities.
>
> As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
> marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage
> newsgroup if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with
> FrontPage and no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.
>
> There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers
> are as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a
> substitute for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that
> believes otherwise will never rise to their potential.
>
> --
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> .Net Developer
> Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
>
> "Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so
> easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it
> in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web
> development?)
>
> I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
> notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.
>
> "Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
> news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
> know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the
> string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and
> changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you
> need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I
> guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information.
>



Nov 19 '05 #18

P: n/a
In that case, you can call me "Crassie!"

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Frankie" <A@B.COM> wrote in message
news:eK**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
<< Would that mean that you are more likely to be female?>>

Likely - yes. Actually - no (in fact, it's quite an assumption to think my
first name is in fact Frankie!).


"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:uh**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi Frankie,
1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)


Would that mean that you are more likely to be female?
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)


However, younger people in the U.S. (and I'm only guessing that Kim comes
from the U.S.) tend to be taller than older people statistically. The
average height of humans in the U.S. has been growing since WWII. So,
knowing that I'm 49, and assuming that Kim is much younger than I (again,
I'm only guessing), the height difference might be debatable. For the
record, I am 5' 10" tall.

--
ROFLMOD,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

Also, we need to take
"Frankie" <A@B.COM> wrote in message
news:O3**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
<< For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first names]
(an objective fact)
2. men tend to be physically taller than women (also beyond opinion or
bias)

Therefore we can conclude that anyone named "Kim" is more likely to be
male than female, AND that KeviN Spencer and KiM Quigley are [more
likely than not] to see things "eye-to-eye".

-HTH
"Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:eP**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best
> practices, such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for
> data access, exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that
> since I'm FEMALE I don't know anything about programming, but notice
> that I didn't start my response with "Just another sexist moron who
> thinks he knows everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..."
> because I think it's not only rude to make assumptions about people,
> but that's not the purpose of this newsgroup.

Who is making assumptions? Did I say anything about you being "FEMALE"?
For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim." Who, in fact, has
now announced to the world that they are sexist? The only thing I held
against you was irresponsibility in making a remark that is not only
unhelpful, but harmful to anyone who believes it. Therefore, by your
own logic ("it's not only rude to make assumptions about people, but
that's not the purpose of this newsgroup") you are yourself guilty of
what you condemn me for. Do you have the character to admit it?

I was responding specifically to your statement (quoting again):

>>> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications
>>> so easy that pretty soon companies will have their
>>> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage
>>> did to the field of web development?)

Note that you did not qualify your statement. This statement was made,
in fact, to a person who admittedly knows very little and is looking
for reliable information. That information is simply misleading at
best. Programming is a serious discipline, and even people doing the
most academic of exercises using the "training wheels" that Visual
Studio.Net makes available for beginners have trouble doing them. They
are here every day. The idea that "receptionists doing it in their
downtime" could begin to program, even using Visual Studio.Net, is
ludicrous. And when someone who wants to learn comes here with a
sincere question, and this type of answer is given to them, I cannot
keep silent. Not because I'm "sexist" but because I care enough to risk
the wrath of people like you, in order to give people the truth they
need to succeed.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
.Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I didn't say it that
>anyone could develop a quality application with FrontPage or Visual
>Studio using them the "easy way" but that doesn't change the fact that
>Visual Studio is an extremely useful, time-saving tool even if you do
>it the right way. Didn't you notice that before FrontPage, companies
>paid a lot of money to hire web developers (and back then a web
>developer was just someone who knew HTML) and then when FrontPage came
>out, there was a huge boom of crappy websites and a LOT of unemployed
>web developers?
>
> One of the things about VisualStudio that makes it faster than
> developing in notepad is that you can type an object name and then the
> '.' and all of its properties and methods appear there. This is a
> great way for beginners to learn about what objects can do.
>
> And just to set the record straight, I DO develop using best
> practices, such as using the Enterprise Library application blocks for
> data access, exception handling and logging. Maybe you thought that
> since I'm FEMALE I don't know anything about programming, but notice
> that I didn't start my response with "Just another sexist moron who
> thinks he knows everything, but will obviously soon be unemployed..."
> because I think it's not only rude to make assumptions about people,
> but that's not the purpose of this newsgroup.
>
>
> "Kevin Spencer" <ke***@DIESPAMMERSDIEtakempis.com> wrote in message
> news:uB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications
>>> so easy that pretty soon companies will have their
>>> receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage
>>> did to the field of web development?)
>>
>> Another victim of the marketing demons, I see.
>>
>> You obviously do not have any idea of one-tenth of what can be done
>> with Visual Studio.Net, nor one-tenth of what ASP.Net applications
>> do. Yes, you can write some very simple, very common, and very
>> small-time applications with Visual Studio.Net, and know
>> next-to-nothing about programming. However, as I mentioned, that
>> accounts for, at the very most, perhaps one-tenth of what sort of
>> applications are being developed, and what sort of uses Visual
>> Studio.Net is designed for.
>>
>> I don't know if I qualify as a "die-hard coder," but I certainly
>> don't use NotePad. I use Visual Studio.Net, and I use the heck out of
>> it. But as far as drag-n-drop database connections and ready-made
>> components go, I'm afraid that the sort of apps I work on demand much
>> much more. And Visual Studio.Net has all the tools I need to build
>> them. Still, in all my years of programming, it has never gotten to
>> be "easy" to do my job, and while VS.Net certainly extends my
>> productivity, the problems I work on continue to expand to fit my
>> current ever-expanding capabilities.
>>
>> As far as FrontPage is concerned, there has been some unfortunate
>> marketing there as well. Spend a little time in the FrontPage
>> newsgroup if you think anyone can develop professional web sites with
>> FrontPage and no prior knowledge of HTML and the WWW.
>>
>> There has nver been, nor will there ever be, at least until computers
>> are as smart as humans, and as creative, a product that will be a
>> substitute for knowledge, experience and hard work. Anyone that
>> believes otherwise will never rise to their potential.
>>
>> --
>> HTH,
>>
>> Kevin Spencer
>> Microsoft MVP
>> .Net Developer
>> Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
>>
>> "Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications
>> so easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists
>> doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field
>> of web development?)
>>
>> I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in
>> notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.
>>
>> "Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message
>> news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you
>> know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use
>> the string.todate or something like that? There are so many
>> additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use
>> for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the
>> possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount
>> of information.
>>
>
>



Nov 19 '05 #19

P: n/a
Kevin Spencer shared this with us in
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
Thank you, Amedee! I had never researched my first name so
extensively, although I was aware that it was basically Irish, and
that one of the definitons of it was "handsome." I've never thought
of myself as particularly handsome, but some women have told me
otherwise from time to time. I do know that my ancestry is both Irish
and English, although my personality is definitely more English! ;-)

So, what is the etymology of Amadee? I would have to guess that it is
similar to "Amadeus" which, I believe, means "Love of God."


Kevin,

It's Amedee, not Amadee. I should mention that I'm rather sensitive
about the correct spelling of my name. A name defines who you are. I'm
rather sure I wouldn't be exactly the same person as I am now if my
name were Tom or Bill. My first name stands out in a crowd, and I'm
proud of it.
But I'll let it pass this time, it's your first offence. ;-)

You're right about the etymology of my name. Not that I or my parents
are very church-going people. I was named after my great-grandfather.
The form of my first name is (or used to be) common in Flanders and in
the North of France (French-Flanders)

I also like the Italian form of my name, "Amadeo", like the painter
Amadeo Modigliani. There is even a street called after me in Rome, near
the central station: Via Principe Amadeo. ;-)

--
Amedee Van Gasse
Nov 19 '05 #20

P: n/a
Frankie shared this with us in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
<< For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first
names] (an objective fact)


Kevin, Frankie,

No mistake is possible. Check out her website. Kimberly Rose Quigley is
definitely a woman. And a rather fine specimen, too! ;-)

http://www.kimquigley.com

--
Amedee Van Gasse
Nov 19 '05 #21

P: n/a
Hi Amedee,

Yes, I realized that I misspelled it once (but spelled it correctly once)
after I had posted. My apologies.

I am a big fan of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"Amedee Van Gasse" <nz**************@rztebhc.or> wrote in message
news:eV**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Kevin Spencer shared this with us in
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
Thank you, Amedee! I had never researched my first name so
extensively, although I was aware that it was basically Irish, and
that one of the definitons of it was "handsome." I've never thought
of myself as particularly handsome, but some women have told me
otherwise from time to time. I do know that my ancestry is both Irish
and English, although my personality is definitely more English! ;-)

So, what is the etymology of Amadee? I would have to guess that it is
similar to "Amadeus" which, I believe, means "Love of God."


Kevin,

It's Amedee, not Amadee. I should mention that I'm rather sensitive
about the correct spelling of my name. A name defines who you are. I'm
rather sure I wouldn't be exactly the same person as I am now if my
name were Tom or Bill. My first name stands out in a crowd, and I'm
proud of it.
But I'll let it pass this time, it's your first offence. ;-)

You're right about the etymology of my name. Not that I or my parents
are very church-going people. I was named after my great-grandfather.
The form of my first name is (or used to be) common in Flanders and in
the North of France (French-Flanders)

I also like the Italian form of my name, "Amadeo", like the painter
Amadeo Modigliani. There is even a street called after me in Rome, near
the central station: Via Principe Amadeo. ;-)

--
Amedee Van Gasse

Nov 19 '05 #22

P: n/a
Sorry, Amalee, but it seems that Kimberly is totally straight.
"Amedee Van Gasse" <nz**************@rztebhc.or> wrote in message
news:Oo**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Frankie shared this with us in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
<< For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>

Something to back you up on this, Kevin:

1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first
names] (an objective fact)


Kevin, Frankie,

No mistake is possible. Check out her website. Kimberly Rose Quigley is
definitely a woman. And a rather fine specimen, too! ;-)

http://www.kimquigley.com

--
Amedee Van Gasse

Nov 19 '05 #23

P: n/a
> Sorry, Amalee, but it seems that Kimberly is totally straight.

Now, THAT'S funny! On far too many levels, I'm afraid!

--
ROFLMOD,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

"bradley" <so*****@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ON**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Sorry, Amalee, but it seems that Kimberly is totally straight.
"Amedee Van Gasse" <nz**************@rztebhc.or> wrote in message
news:Oo**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Frankie shared this with us in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
> << For all I knew, you were a Japanese male named "Kim.">>
>
> Something to back you up on this, Kevin:
>
> 1. more women's [first names] end in vowels than do men's [first
> names] (an objective fact)


Kevin, Frankie,

No mistake is possible. Check out her website. Kimberly Rose Quigley is
definitely a woman. And a rather fine specimen, too! ;-)

http://www.kimquigley.com

--
Amedee Van Gasse


Nov 19 '05 #24

P: n/a
bradley shared this with us in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:
Sorry, Amalee, but it seems that Kimberly is totally straight.


ROTFLMAO!

--
Amedee Van Gasse
Nov 19 '05 #25

P: n/a
Kim:::

That's funny! The 2mb animated gif on the web page! I laughed when I read
your post. Well, that's the kind of result you get when you metaphorically
have a waitor doing a physicist's work!

In addition - and I hope that EVERY company man who is viewing this post
reads this: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR - today, tomorrow, and forever...
--
Brice Richard
"su**********@community.nospam" wrote:
"Kim Quigley" <ki********@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ud****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you using Visual Studio.net? It makes writing .net applications so easy that pretty soon companies will have their receptionists doing it in their downtime (Remember what FrontPage did to the field of web development?)
...Resulted in some of the worst examples of web design ever seen. At one point at my company they actually did give the receptionist frontpage and tasked her with designing the company web site. Just one of the highlights was a 2mb animated gif on the index page. They soon got somebody else to do it properly.
I know there are some die hard coders out there trying to develop in notepad and I think they're just wasting time trying to be elite.

"Shawn Ferguson" <SF******@cscc.edu> wrote in message news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I'm in the process of learning .NET but I have an issue. How do you know what CAN exist. What I mean is how does a person know to use the string.todate or something like that? There are so many additions and changes from traditional, how do you know what to use for what you need without having a HUGE reference book of all the possibilities? I guess I'm a little intimidated by the vast amount of information

Nov 19 '05 #26

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