ASP vs ASP.NET development time

[whodunit]

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question, please
do.

[Mark Rae]

"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
please
do.

It largely depends what you're doing. The web controls themselves increase
productivity dramatically. A good example of this is paging and sorting data
in tabular form. This was a real chore in ASP classic whereas the
<asp:DataGrid> control makes it a breeze in ASP.NET

[whodunit]

Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with consulting
firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.

"Mark Rae" wrote:

"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
please
do.

It largely depends what you're doing. The web controls themselves increase
productivity dramatically. A good example of this is paging and sorting data
in tabular form. This was a real chore in ASP classic whereas the
<asp:DataGrid> control makes it a breeze in ASP.NET

[Mark Rae]

"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:62**********************************@microsof t.com...

Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with
consulting
firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.

15%, 20%, 25% - who cares? They're just meaningless numbers.

In my opinion, any consulting firm who had actually taken a "reasonable"
sample of typical web projects (at least 10 to make a fair sample) and had
timed how long they had taken to write them in ASP and then in ASP.NET
*really* has nothing better to do, and you might wonder why they have so
little real work on their books... :-)

[Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\)]

ASP.NET is:

1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
statements
2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
3. More completely integrated with IIS
4. More integrated with the operating system

Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP and
ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time making
the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.

I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely hold
on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
namespace) and practices.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

***********************************************
Think outside the box!
***********************************************
"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
please
do.

[whodunit]

Yes, I agree the number is meaningless, seemed to me also.

Btw, I found the rest of your comment very amusing - I don't think any
consulting firm has taken the time to do this, they'd rather quote you the
80/20 rule. That was sort of my point.

Maybe someone from MS can come back to us with a controlled study they have
done to answer this question - same set of requirements being implemented
with ASP and with ASP.Net. By controlled I mean keeping as many of the
variables the same as possible, same developer, same set of reqs, same
platforms, just this one difference. Anyhow, I dont know why I am saying
this, it's almost as amusing as your comment was to me.

thanks.

"Mark Rae" wrote:

"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:62**********************************@microsof t.com...

Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with
consulting
firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.

15%, 20%, 25% - who cares? They're just meaningless numbers.

In my opinion, any consulting firm who had actually taken a "reasonable"
sample of typical web projects (at least 10 to make a fair sample) and had
timed how long they had taken to write them in ASP and then in ASP.NET
*really* has nothing better to do, and you might wonder why they have so
little real work on their books... :-)

[whodunit]

Good points, thanks.

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" wrote:

ASP.NET is:

1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
statements
2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
3. More completely integrated with IIS
4. More integrated with the operating system

Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP and
ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time making
the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.

I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely hold
on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
namespace) and practices.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

***********************************************
Think outside the box!
***********************************************
"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
please
do.

[Andrea L. Williams]

I don't agree... In any language or development platform, there are good
coding practices and bad ones. I was forced to learn C# and I'm happy that
I did as it make my skills more valuable, but the language itelf does not
suggest the quality of your code. You can learn C# and still have bad
coding practices. I see it all over the internet in coding samples, just as
well as I see good samples in VB.

Bottom line, don't get hung up on the language. It's much easier to learn
..NET if you don't have to learn another language syntax on top of it. Keep
in mind, however, that regardless of the fact that both languages use the
same CLR, C# developers typically get paid more.

If you do plan to transfer your skills to C# this book helped me
tremendously: C# & VB.NET Conversion Pocket Reference (Paperback) by Jose
Mojica

Andrea
"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No*************@comcast.netNoOSpamM> wrote in
message news:eh**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

ASP.NET is:

1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
statements
2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
3. More completely integrated with IIS
4. More integrated with the operating system

Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP and ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time making the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.

I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely hold on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
namespace) and practices.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

***********************************************
Think outside the box!
***********************************************
"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
thumb,
between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
more
productive? Well, by how much?

I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But if
anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
please
do.

[Kevin Spencer]

I believe what Greg was saying is that when one is new to .Net, it helps to
change the way one thinks about programming, and learning a different syntax
may help one to think differently as well. I don't believe he meant to
belittle VB.Net.

The thing that surprises me is that so many VB developers are so touchy
about their favorite language. Methinks they doth protest too much.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.

"Andrea L. Williams" <an*******@hotIHateSpammail.com> wrote in message
news:Od**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

I don't agree... In any language or development platform, there are good
coding practices and bad ones. I was forced to learn C# and I'm happy
that
I did as it make my skills more valuable, but the language itelf does not
suggest the quality of your code. You can learn C# and still have bad
coding practices. I see it all over the internet in coding samples, just
as
well as I see good samples in VB.

Bottom line, don't get hung up on the language. It's much easier to learn
.NET if you don't have to learn another language syntax on top of it.
Keep
in mind, however, that regardless of the fact that both languages use the
same CLR, C# developers typically get paid more.

If you do plan to transfer your skills to C# this book helped me
tremendously: C# & VB.NET Conversion Pocket Reference (Paperback) by Jose
Mojica

Andrea
"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No*************@comcast.netNoOSpamM> wrote
in
message news:eh**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

ASP.NET is:

1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
statements
2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command,
etc.
3. More completely integrated with IIS
4. More integrated with the operating system

Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP

and

ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time

making

the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.

I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely

hold

on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
namespace) and practices.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

***********************************************
Think outside the box!
***********************************************
"whodunit" <wh******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:67**********************************@microsof t.com...

> What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
> thumb,
> between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes
> you
> more
> productive? Well, by how much?
>
> I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
> realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But > if
> anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
> please
> do.