I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The
purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status.
We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information.
From within the “Application_Start” (Global.asax), I create as many threads
as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each
server and update a flag in the public array. When a “true” request comes in,
the system checks for two things:
* Server availability (on-line vs. off-line)
* Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread
sends a new query)
I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long
time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading
some posts related to threading and I found this one “Threading in asp.net
issue - Thread stops” created on 11/12/2004 where “John Saunders” (who is
responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad
idea. He said “don't use threads with ASP.NET.”
If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas
will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. 11 1430
there is nothing wrong with using threads in asp.net. asp.net will actualy
know nothing of threads you create, they are just standard .net threads.
they will run under the security context of the asp.net worker process. if
they are exiting earky, they are probably erroring out. if you have no error
logging featue in your thread, you need to add it.
note: to allow asp.net to unload its appdomains on recycle events, you
should check for the thread abort request.
-- bruce (sqlwork.com)
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:70**********************************@microsof t.com...
| I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution.
The
| purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server
status.
| We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve
information.
|
| From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many
threads
| as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each
| server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes
in,
| the system checks for two things:
|
| * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line)
| * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread
| sends a new query)
|
| I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long
| time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading
| some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net
| issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is
| responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad
| idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
|
| If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas
| will be greatly appreciated.
|
| Thanks in advance.
|
> I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time.
Would these threads stopping by any chance coincide with your app stopping?
The app will stop after a period of time with no requests. That would stop
any child threads.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:70**********************************@microsof t.com...I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status. We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information.
From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many threads as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes in, the system checks for two things:
* Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread sends a new query)
I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Thank you Bruce. Unswering your question, no, I don’t have any logging yet. I
was planning on doing this. You just mentioned something I wanted to ask. You
say that the threads I create are standard .NET threads and that they run
under the security context of the aspnet_wp process. I would like to be able
to monitor the threads I create. Is it enough to just check IsAlive property?
Could you please explain a bit more what you mean by unloading its
appdomains?
"bruce barker" wrote: there is nothing wrong with using threads in asp.net. asp.net will actualy know nothing of threads you create, they are just standard .net threads. they will run under the security context of the asp.net worker process. if they are exiting earky, they are probably erroring out. if you have no error logging featue in your thread, you need to add it.
note: to allow asp.net to unload its appdomains on recycle events, you should check for the thread abort request.
-- bruce (sqlwork.com)
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... | I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The | purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status. | We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information. | | From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many threads | as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each | server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes in, | the system checks for two things: | | * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) | * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread | sends a new query) | | I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long | time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading | some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net | issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is | responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad | idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." | | If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas | will be greatly appreciated. | | Thanks in advance. |
Thank you Kevin. I was not stopping/closing the app. You say that the app.
will stop after a period of time with no requests (this may be the case,
since I let sit there refreshing itself). Can this be changed or prevented?
"Kevin Spencer" wrote: I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time.
Would these threads stopping by any chance coincide with your app stopping? The app will stop after a period of time with no requests. That would stop any child threads.
-- HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP ..Net Developer Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com...I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status. We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information.
From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many threads as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes in, the system checks for two things:
* Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread sends a new query)
I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
> Can this be changed or prevented?
Yes, it can. No, it SHOULD not. Instead, you should build your app in such a
way that it recovers when the app restarts.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:BB**********************************@microsof t.com... Thank you Kevin. I was not stopping/closing the app. You say that the app. will stop after a period of time with no requests (this may be the case, since I let sit there refreshing itself). Can this be changed or prevented?
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time.
Would these threads stopping by any chance coincide with your app stopping? The app will stop after a period of time with no requests. That would stop any child threads.
-- HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP ..Net Developer Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... >I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) >solution. >The > purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server > status. > We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve > information. > > From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many > threads > as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query > each > server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request > comes > in, > the system checks for two things: > > * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) > * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a > thread > sends a new query) > > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started > reading > some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in > asp.net > issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who > is > responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a > bad > idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." > > If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any > ideas > will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. >
Kevin, since the threads are being created in "Application_Start"
(Global.asax), shouldn't this take care of the re-creation of the threads
when the app. re-starts?
"Kevin Spencer" wrote: Can this be changed or prevented?
Yes, it can. No, it SHOULD not. Instead, you should build your app in such a way that it recovers when the app restarts.
-- HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP ..Net Developer Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:BB**********************************@microsof t.com... Thank you Kevin. I was not stopping/closing the app. You say that the app. will stop after a period of time with no requests (this may be the case, since I let sit there refreshing itself). Can this be changed or prevented?
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time.
Would these threads stopping by any chance coincide with your app stopping? The app will stop after a period of time with no requests. That would stop any child threads.
-- HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP ..Net Developer Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... >I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) >solution. >The > purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server > status. > We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve > information. > > From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many > threads > as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query > each > server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request > comes > in, > the system checks for two things: > > * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) > * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a > thread > sends a new query) > > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started > reading > some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in > asp.net > issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who > is > responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a > bad > idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." > > If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any > ideas > will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. >
Yes. If they stop working, they should start back up again when the app
restarts.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:4A**********************************@microsof t.com... Kevin, since the threads are being created in "Application_Start" (Global.asax), shouldn't this take care of the re-creation of the threads when the app. re-starts?
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
> Can this be changed or prevented?
Yes, it can. No, it SHOULD not. Instead, you should build your app in such a way that it recovers when the app restarts.
-- HTH,
Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP ..Net Developer Neither a follower nor a lender be.
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:BB**********************************@microsof t.com... > Thank you Kevin. I was not stopping/closing the app. You say that the > app. > will stop after a period of time with no requests (this may be the > case, > since I let sit there refreshing itself). Can this be changed or > prevented? > > "Kevin Spencer" wrote: > >> > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for >> > a >> > long >> > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. >> >> Would these threads stopping by any chance coincide with your app >> stopping? >> The app will stop after a period of time with no requests. That would >> stop >> any child threads. >> >> -- >> HTH, >> >> Kevin Spencer >> Microsoft MVP >> ..Net Developer >> Neither a follower nor a lender be. >> >> "mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message >> news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... >> >I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) >> >solution. >> >The >> > purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with >> > server >> > status. >> > We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve >> > information. >> > >> > From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many >> > threads >> > as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will >> > query >> > each >> > server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request >> > comes >> > in, >> > the system checks for two things: >> > >> > * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) >> > * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a >> > thread >> > sends a new query) >> > >> > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for >> > a >> > long >> > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started >> > reading >> > some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in >> > asp.net >> > issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" >> > (who >> > is >> > responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is >> > a >> > bad >> > idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." >> > >> > If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any >> > ideas >> > will be greatly appreciated. >> > >> > Thanks in advance. >> > >> >> >>
>the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
It is not.
Though I cannot speak for John, I believe he may have been frustrated with
the large number of bad thread tutorials on the web and incorrect usage of
threading with regards to .NET.
Sometimes, I too, question the idea behind making threads so widely
accessible. Threading is inherently difficult to get right the first,
second, third or forth time around and requires deep understanding of
complicated stuff. .NET exposes the threadpool, to help manage some of these
issues and lighten the burden to the developer.
Thread on - even if it kills the server :-)
--
Regards
Alvin Bruney
[Shameless Author Plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
available at www.lulu.com/owc
--------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:70**********************************@microsof t.com...I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status. We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information.
From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many threads as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes in, the system checks for two things:
* Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread sends a new query)
I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks Alvin. I started looking into "threadpool" but when I read that there
was a 25 thread limitation I realized it was not going to be enough for what
I am trying to do.
"Alvin Bruney [Microsoft MVP]" wrote: the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." It is not.
Though I cannot speak for John, I believe he may have been frustrated with the large number of bad thread tutorials on the web and incorrect usage of threading with regards to .NET.
Sometimes, I too, question the idea behind making threads so widely accessible. Threading is inherently difficult to get right the first, second, third or forth time around and requires deep understanding of complicated stuff. .NET exposes the threadpool, to help manage some of these issues and lighten the burden to the developer.
Thread on - even if it kills the server :-) -- Regards Alvin Bruney [Shameless Author Plug] The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET available at www.lulu.com/owc --------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com...I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) solution. The purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server status. We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve information.
From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many threads as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query each server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request comes in, the system checks for two things:
* Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a thread sends a new query)
I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a long time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started reading some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in asp.net issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who is responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET."
If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. when I read that there was a 25 thread limitation I realized it was not going to be enough for what
Now that's problem a design flaw. I've written a similar app a couple weeks
ago actually and the approach i took was to spin 3 threads and give them a
stack of urls to go hunt down. Each stack consisted of about 40,000 url's.
But the point is the cap on the thread use made the application behave
properly because there were at most 3 threads running on top. A couple more
underneath because of the way the webrequest mechanism works. but you get
the idea.
my rule of thumb for threading is to spin no more than 5 threads at any
point in time. even in low concurrency situations, such liberty can infact
cripple a beefy server.
--
Regards
Alvin Bruney
[Shameless Author Plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
available at www.lulu.com/owc
--------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message
news:EB**********************************@microsof t.com... Thanks Alvin. I started looking into "threadpool" but when I read that there was a 25 thread limitation I realized it was not going to be enough for what I am trying to do.
"Alvin Bruney [Microsoft MVP]" wrote:
>the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad >idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." It is not.
Though I cannot speak for John, I believe he may have been frustrated with the large number of bad thread tutorials on the web and incorrect usage of threading with regards to .NET.
Sometimes, I too, question the idea behind making threads so widely accessible. Threading is inherently difficult to get right the first, second, third or forth time around and requires deep understanding of complicated stuff. .NET exposes the threadpool, to help manage some of these issues and lighten the burden to the developer.
Thread on - even if it kills the server :-) -- Regards Alvin Bruney [Shameless Author Plug] The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET available at www.lulu.com/owc --------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... >I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) >solution. >The > purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server > status. > We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve > information. > > From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many > threads > as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query > each > server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request > comes > in, > the system checks for two things: > > * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) > * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a > thread > sends a new query) > > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started > reading > some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in > asp.net > issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who > is > responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a > bad > idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." > > If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any > ideas > will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. >
Alvin, so how would you tackle what I am trying to do. I may have 15 servers
to keep track of their status (working or not working). If you would not have
more than 5 threads are you saying that instead of creating 15 threads (in my
example) I should create 5 and have those 5 check the 15 servers?
"Alvin Bruney [Microsoft MVP]" wrote: when I read that there was a 25 thread limitation I realized it was not going to be enough for what
Now that's problem a design flaw. I've written a similar app a couple weeks ago actually and the approach i took was to spin 3 threads and give them a stack of urls to go hunt down. Each stack consisted of about 40,000 url's. But the point is the cap on the thread use made the application behave properly because there were at most 3 threads running on top. A couple more underneath because of the way the webrequest mechanism works. but you get the idea.
my rule of thumb for threading is to spin no more than 5 threads at any point in time. even in low concurrency situations, such liberty can infact cripple a beefy server.
-- Regards Alvin Bruney [Shameless Author Plug] The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET available at www.lulu.com/owc --------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:EB**********************************@microsof t.com... Thanks Alvin. I started looking into "threadpool" but when I read that there was a 25 thread limitation I realized it was not going to be enough for what I am trying to do.
"Alvin Bruney [Microsoft MVP]" wrote:
>the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a bad >idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." It is not.
Though I cannot speak for John, I believe he may have been frustrated with the large number of bad thread tutorials on the web and incorrect usage of threading with regards to .NET.
Sometimes, I too, question the idea behind making threads so widely accessible. Threading is inherently difficult to get right the first, second, third or forth time around and requires deep understanding of complicated stuff. .NET exposes the threadpool, to help manage some of these issues and lighten the burden to the developer.
Thread on - even if it kills the server :-) -- Regards Alvin Bruney [Shameless Author Plug] The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET available at www.lulu.com/owc --------------------------------------------------
"mareal" <m@m.com> wrote in message news:70**********************************@microsof t.com... >I am trying to write a basic load balancer (in our web service) >solution. >The > purpose of this load balancer is to keep an array updated with server > status. > We have several servers that can be accessed in order to retrieve > information. > > From within the "Application_Start" (Global.asax), I create as many > threads > as servers we have available. The idea is that each thread will query > each > server and update a flag in the public array. When a "true" request > comes > in, > the system checks for two things: > > * Server availability (on-line vs. off-line) > * Server load (based on a value returned by the server every time a > thread > sends a new query) > > I noticed that the threads may stop working. Sometimes they run for a > long > time and sometimes they run for a short period of time. I started > reading > some posts related to threading and I found this one "Threading in > asp.net > issue - Thread stops" created on 11/12/2004 where "John Saunders" (who > is > responding) says that the use of threads in a ASP.NET application is a > bad > idea. He said "don't use threads with ASP.NET." > > If this is true, how can I approach this load balancer project? Any > ideas > will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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