Evolving Web App Standards and ASP.NET

[mklapp]

Hello,

I am new to Web programming. I have close to 30 years programming in many other areas and that experience leads me to these questions.

1. Many articles I have read tout VS.NET 2003 as a real breakthrough in productivity. I now believe much of this derives from the ASP.NET Designer Page. Experienced Web programmers here are in the habit of writing HTML (and related) code that cannot be displayed in the Designer. This appears to be caused by Page.resolveURL in the HTML code to point to image files. This is an application that should be (HIPAA regs) relatively isolated. I understand why resolveURL would be used, but is it really necessary in a static directory structure?

2. Local evolving standards have come out strongly against Grid Layout Forms. I understand one should choose flow layout if multiple browsers are used by the user community, but in this case, only IE 6.0 and up will be used. It seems to me that Grid Layout makes development much faster. What are the good reasons for choosing either strategy here? Is this being driven by prejudices of experienced programmers against new tools and techniques (I remember the howls when Structured Programming came out) ?

I really want to learn where these lines are drawn.

Thanks,

mklapp

[Craig Deelsnyder]

On 7/19/2004 1:03 PM, mklapp wrote:

Hello,

I am new to Web programming. I have close to 30 years programming in many other areas and that experience leads me to these questions.

1. Many articles I have read tout VS.NET 2003 as a real breakthrough in productivity. I now believe much of this derives from the ASP.NET Designer Page. Experienced Web programmers here are in the habit of writing HTML (and related) code that cannot be displayed in the Designer. This appears to be caused by Page.resolveURL in the HTML code to point to image files. This is an application that should be (HIPAA regs) relatively isolated. I understand why resolveURL would be used, but is it really necessary in a static directory structure?

2. Local evolving standards have come out strongly against Grid Layout Forms. I understand one should choose flow layout if multiple browsers are used by the user community, but in this case, only IE 6.0 and up will be used. It seems to me that Grid Layout makes development much faster. What are the good reasons for choosing either strategy here? Is this being driven by prejudices of experienced programmers against new tools and techniques (I remember the howls when Structured Programming came out) ?

I really want to learn where these lines are drawn.

Thanks,

mklapp

1. I always build my sites to be portable, so that relative references
work fine, hence I usually don't need ResolveUrl. However, there are
times when it is needed depending on how your app is designed (if a
piece of code is used from multiple URL endpoints, eg). But for the
most part, if you can use a relative reference, go ahead.

2. I never use Grid Layout unless I know for sure I'm using an uplevel
browser and the user's screen dimensions are known (or I design to 800 x
600, for example). Otherwise it could lead to scrolling problems, etc.
basically the site looks a little screwy compared to what I may have in
mind. I don't know how 'well' it works (support, etc.) especially if
you have a diverse user environment (IE6, Firefox, Opera, etc.). That
someone else would have to answer.

But I just like flow layout by experience. I have no need to enforce
absolute positioning most of the time...

Just my opinions...

--
Craig Deelsnyder
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET

[bruce barker]

1) pretty common to edit the html, the designer is pretty weak. actually i
do all my work in html mode, not designer.

2) grid mode does not work even with IE unless you control the screen
resolution and system font size used by all your users. just make a simple
page in grid mode, then in advanced setting for display monior pick large
fonts or change your screen resolution.

-- bruce (sqlwork.com)

"mklapp" <mk****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E7**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hello,

I am new to Web programming. I have close to 30 years programming in many other areas and that experience leads me to these questions.
1. Many articles I have read tout VS.NET 2003 as a real breakthrough in productivity. I now believe much of this derives from the ASP.NET Designer
Page. Experienced Web programmers here are in the habit of writing HTML
(and related) code that cannot be displayed in the Designer. This appears
to be caused by Page.resolveURL in the HTML code to point to image files.
This is an application that should be (HIPAA regs) relatively isolated. I
understand why resolveURL would be used, but is it really necessary in a
static directory structure?
2. Local evolving standards have come out strongly against Grid Layout Forms. I understand one should choose flow layout if multiple browsers are
used by the user community, but in this case, only IE 6.0 and up will be
used. It seems to me that Grid Layout makes development much faster. What
are the good reasons for choosing either strategy here? Is this being
driven by prejudices of experienced programmers against new tools and
techniques (I remember the howls when Structured Programming came out) ?
I really want to learn where these lines are drawn.

Thanks,

mklapp

[John Saunders]

"mklapp" <mk****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E7**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hello,

I am new to Web programming. I have close to 30 years programming in many other areas and that experience leads me to these questions.
2. Local evolving standards have come out strongly against Grid Layout Forms. I understand one should choose flow layout if multiple browsers are
used by the user community, but in this case, only IE 6.0 and up will be
used. It seems to me that Grid Layout makes development much faster. What
are the good reasons for choosing either strategy here? Is this being
driven by prejudices of experienced programmers against new tools and
techniques (I remember the howls when Structured Programming came out) ?

I never use Grid layout, and I don't understand why anyone would use it.
Take a look at the horrible HTML it generates. I also used to have problems
with elements which were meant to line up, but which wound up being off by a
pixel or two.
--
John Saunders
johnwsaundersiii at hotmail

[Mr. Dot Net]

Hi,

I will answer your questions in a LIFO manner..

The second question was:
"Local evolving standards have come out strongly against Grid Layout Forms.
I understand one should choose flow layout if multiple browsers are used by
the user community, but in this case, only IE 6.0 and up will be used. It
seems to me that Grid Layout makes development much faster. What are the
good reasons for choosing either strategy here? Is this being driven by
prejudices of experienced programmers against new tools and techniques (I
remember the howls when Structured Programming came out) ?"

My answer:
"The grid layout is based on absolute positioning of the controls while the
in flow layout the positioning is relative.
Normally, you should use container elements (usually tables) for
positioning.
Anyhow the definition flow\grid layout only determines the default behavior
of the asp.net designer.
When used with grid layout each control will be given X Y coordinates of
positioning in the style attribute while flow layout will not.
So, if you decide not to use absolute positioning that would be pretty
annoying to erase the extra layout style.
Using absolute positioning (grid) is much more easy though it will be much
harder to scale screen resolutions though I guess there are some applicative
aids for that task.
Using flow layout is much more uncomfortable to develop (though experienced
programmers might prefer that) though more scalable for different screen
resolutions."

Your first question was:
"Many articles I have read tout VS.NET 2003 as a real breakthrough in
productivity. I now believe much of this derives from the ASP.NET Designer
Page. Experienced Web programmers here are in the habit of writing HTML
(and related) code that cannot be displayed in the Designer. This appears
to be caused by Page.resolveURL in the HTML code to point to image files.
This is an application that should be (HIPAA regs) relatively isolated. I
understand why resolveURL would be used, but is it really necessary in a
static directory structure?"
My Answer:
"If I understand your question correctly then is seems that there is no need
to use ResolveURL there.
Though, the designer is not 'the' most important breakthrough in
productivity it's only the symptom but about that I will deal in another
session."
"mklapp" <mk****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E7**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hello,

I am new to Web programming. I have close to 30 years programming in many other areas and that experience leads me to these questions.

I really want to learn where these lines are drawn.

Thanks,

mklapp