Denial of Service Attacks/ASP.NET/Nick Berg

[Peter O'Reilly]

The news of Nick Berg is shocking enough. Having his video released and
made widely available, in its _totality, including the decapitation, makes
those web site operators accomplices in this ghastly crime.

Perhaps there should be a call to arms here in this newsgroup. Folks should
post the website addresses of these reprobates as well as DoS source code
(ASP.NET platform is more than capable tool for this). Or not?

Yes, I'm outraged by the news, but still write this with a level head and
from strictly a pragmatic perspective. (I'm stuck in dial-up mode, so I
could not be of much help with executing a DoS and just a thought that pass
through my head - nothing more).

I'd be equally curious to learn of others moral takes/views/repercussions
and philosophical ramblings
concerning this idea.

Thanks,

Peter

[Kevin Spencer]

Once you open the door to practice illegal hacker techniques for whatever
subjective moral justification, you're already on the slippery slope. Who
will decide what is a proper exception to the law? Since the practice is
lawless, the decision as to when to implement it will necessarily be lawless
as well. The logical conclusion is that the individual will make that
determination for him/herself, and thus the law becomes of no effect.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

"Peter O'Reilly" <Pe***********@timeinc.com!N!O!.S!P!AM!> wrote in message
news:#t**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

The news of Nick Berg is shocking enough. Having his video released and
made widely available, in its _totality, including the decapitation, makes
those web site operators accomplices in this ghastly crime.

Perhaps there should be a call to arms here in this newsgroup. Folks should post the website addresses of these reprobates as well as DoS source code
(ASP.NET platform is more than capable tool for this). Or not?

Yes, I'm outraged by the news, but still write this with a level head and
from strictly a pragmatic perspective. (I'm stuck in dial-up mode, so I
could not be of much help with executing a DoS and just a thought that pass through my head - nothing more).

I'd be equally curious to learn of others moral takes/views/repercussions
and philosophical ramblings
concerning this idea.

Thanks,

Peter

[Peter O'Reilly]

> Once you open the door to practice illegal hacker techniques for whatever

subjective moral justification, you're already on the slippery slope.
Jaywalking is against the law where I live, but I don't consider it immoral.
A more extreme example, in parallel would be abortion. In some
states/countries, it's illegal
and in others it is not. Law and morality simply don't mix. Every heard
of "that" lawyer joke...
Who will decide what is a proper exception to the law? Since the practice is lawless, the decision as to when to implement it will necessarily be lawless as well. The logical conclusion is that the individual will make that
determination for him/herself, and thus the law becomes of no effect.

Whose "practice"? What laws? Whose laws?

What laws are the video perps breaking? If not in their own country, then
making it available within yours? Of what moral redeeming value is it to
make available the entire video footage? Of what purpose is it other than
marketing more unadulterated evil.

One is free to walk down the street and say "F- you" to every one he passes.
In doing so, he's not breaking any laws, but he is freely inviting quite a
bit of trouble for himself. To me this video display is the ultimate
invitation to trouble.

--
Peter O'Reilly

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Peter,

I made no mention of morality in my response to your initial message. I
don't think this forum is appropriate for discussions of morality. In fact,
I don't think it's a forum for this sort of topic. So, before I go away and
forget about this thread, I just want to clarify that I was simply speaking
in terms of law and logic. As to what laws, and whose laws, let's just say
the same sort of laws you mentioned in your reply's opening paragraph.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.

"Peter O'Reilly" <Pe***********@timeinc.com!N!O!.S!P!AM!> wrote in message
news:eb**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Once you open the door to practice illegal hacker techniques for whatever subjective moral justification, you're already on the slippery slope.
Jaywalking is against the law where I live, but I don't consider it

immoral. A more extreme example, in parallel would be abortion. In some
states/countries, it's illegal
and in others it is not. Law and morality simply don't mix. Every heard
of "that" lawyer joke...

Who will decide what is a proper exception to the law? Since the

practice is

lawless, the decision as to when to implement it will necessarily be lawless

as well. The logical conclusion is that the individual will make that
determination for him/herself, and thus the law becomes of no effect.

Whose "practice"? What laws? Whose laws?

What laws are the video perps breaking? If not in their own country, then
making it available within yours? Of what moral redeeming value is it to
make available the entire video footage? Of what purpose is it other than
marketing more unadulterated evil.

One is free to walk down the street and say "F- you" to every one he

passes. In doing so, he's not breaking any laws, but he is freely inviting quite a
bit of trouble for himself. To me this video display is the ultimate
invitation to trouble.

--
Peter O'Reilly

[Peter O'Reilly]

> I made no mention of morality in my response to your initial message.

In your first post your wrote "...for whatever subjective moral
justification..."

I don't think this forum is appropriate for discussions of morality. In fact, I don't think it's a forum for this sort of topic.
Your contention is such practice is lawless. What specific law are you
referring to? Law and criminal intent go hand and hand. Which party has the
criminal intent? And which governing party is enforcing such law you write
of? This is a newsgroup that discusses building web applications and
solutions using ASP.NET. What was originally proposed was building such an
application that can be used for a good, noble purpose. I think a
discussion here is appropriate and a most suitable place. If not, then
where?
So, before I go away and forget about this thread, I just want to clarify that I was simply speaking in terms of law and logic. As to what laws, and whose laws, let's just say
the same sort of laws you mentioned in your reply's opening paragraph.

Sorry, but you are not being very clear and perhaps purposely being vague
(and civil/polite - thank you) to the point where there is no logic to be
found in your comments much less a point. (Like the word "moral", "logic"
was used once in your post so I hope you can see how there may be a clarity
issue.)

Peter

[Curt_C [MVP]]

This is a technical group for technical items. If you want to talk about HOW
to build something, great, but the WHY is best for somewhere else, dunno
where.

--
Curt Christianson
Owner/Lead Developer, DF-Software
Site: http://www.Darkfalz.com
Blog: http://blog.Darkfalz.com
"Peter O'Reilly" <Pe***********@timeinc.com!N!O!.S!P!AM!> wrote in message
news:eZ*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I made no mention of morality in my response to your initial message.
In your first post your wrote "...for whatever subjective moral
justification..."

I don't think this forum is appropriate for discussions of morality. In

fact,

I don't think it's a forum for this sort of topic.

Your contention is such practice is lawless. What specific law are you
referring to? Law and criminal intent go hand and hand. Which party has

the criminal intent? And which governing party is enforcing such law you write of? This is a newsgroup that discusses building web applications and
solutions using ASP.NET. What was originally proposed was building such an application that can be used for a good, noble purpose. I think a
discussion here is appropriate and a most suitable place. If not, then
where?

So, before I go away and forget about this thread, I just want to clarify that I was simply speaking

in terms of law and logic. As to what laws, and whose laws, let's just say the same sort of laws you mentioned in your reply's opening paragraph.

Sorry, but you are not being very clear and perhaps purposely being vague
(and civil/polite - thank you) to the point where there is no logic to be
found in your comments much less a point. (Like the word "moral", "logic"
was used once in your post so I hope you can see how there may be a

clarity issue.)

Peter

[Beatnik]

A man is decapitated and your solution is a DoS. How pathetic!

Why dont you start by DoSing the White House, the Pentagon or the CIA?

Or is forced rape of men, women and children, the savaging of probable
innocents by the dogs of your psy-ops teams, the beatings and torture
metted out by your troops all perfectly acceptable when it comes from
the direction of the red, white and blues?

The great "Defenders Of Freedom". Knuckle heads like you make me sick.

Anybody else stands up for themselves and you and your government
denounce them as terrorists and militants. The butchery of American
funded death squads in El Salvadore/Guatamala/Columbia/Panama however
is simply protecting your national interests.

American Adminstrations create and fund a gimp like Osa Bin Laden.
Their quite happy when he's killing for them but the moment he turns
around and bites the hand that feeds, your government trots in there
and destroys a country. "American National Interest".

Same could be said for Saddam Hussain. Noone cares when he
slaughtering kurds but get in the way of George W. and his pals at
Halburton Oil and suddenly he's a problem.

Where are those weapons of mass destruction by the way Peter? Found
them yet? They were only your whole justification for ever being
there.... you know when the pretty much the whole rest of world
including the U.N said "No!".

If your government had of listened Nick would still have his head!

But oh no, im an American, im always right, it couldn't possibly be
true that Im wrong, no way it's that manky little Arab website thats
the problem now! Not Us.... its them!!

I know lets attack them!!

Sound familiar Peter.

No wonder your government gets away with the crap that it pulls.....
the citizens of the "land of the free" can't even think for
themselves.

Your government doesn't give a rats about the torture of innocents.
Their just pissed they got found out. Your economy is founded on war,
death/destruction and the misery of those invisibles in the rest of
the world, it's what keeps food on the American table.

If you cant see that then you really are blind. If you want to do
something righteous Peter then get your troops out of everyones elses
country. The rest of the world is growing very tired of you lot and
your bullshit propaganda. Everywhere your Government goes people die.

Just piss off and live in peace like the rest of us seem to manage to
do. Leave the Arabs alone, leave the Asians alone, leave the Russians
alone, leave the South Amercians alone and leave the Africans alone.
Just fuck off!!

Sort your own god damn problems out.... lord knows the U.S.A has
enough of them.
And no in case you haven't already worked it out, the rest of the
world doesn;t want to be like you.... at all.