Q - App architecture (forms auth & sql backend)

[Dan Walls]

Hi,

I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL database
backend. If my (planned)architecture is:

Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) -> Firewall ->
SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.

then what technology would I typically use to communicate between the IIS
machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?

remoting?
web service?

Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?

I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS machine -
for security reasons.

Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup on the web?

Thanks in Advance,
Dan.

[George Durzi]

I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL
call that way, which is ridiculously slow.

Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the firewall?
I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able
to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Hi,

I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL database
backend. If my (planned)architecture is:

Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) -> Firewall -> SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.

then what technology would I typically use to communicate between the IIS
machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?

remoting?
web service?

Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?

I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS machine -
for security reasons.

Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup on the web?
Thanks in Advance,
Dan.

[Dan Walls]

That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application
(running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server
behind my second firewall?

Thanks George,
Dan.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL
call that way, which is ridiculously slow.

Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the firewall?
I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able
to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Hi,

I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL database backend. If my (planned)architecture is:

Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->

Firewall ->

SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.

then what technology would I typically use to communicate between the IIS machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?

remoting?
web service?

Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?

I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS machine - for security reasons.

Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup on the

web?

Thanks in Advance,
Dan.

[George Durzi]

Dan,
I think it becomes a network issue rather than a programmatic one at this
point. Sorry, I'm of no use with network issues :) I'm just a code monkey

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7%********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application
(running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server
behind my second firewall?

Thanks George,
Dan.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL
call that way, which is ridiculously slow.

Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the firewall?
I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able

to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Hi,

I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL database backend. If my (planned)architecture is:

Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->

Firewall ->

SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.

then what technology would I typically use to communicate between the IIS machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?

remoting?
web service?

Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?

I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS machine - for security reasons.

Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup on

the web?

Thanks in Advance,
Dan.

[Rajesh.V]

We had the arch and we got the network guys to open up the second firewall
for port (i think 1440, chk sql docs) for communication between the sql and
the webserver. That way thur this open port only these two can communicate.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Dan,
I think it becomes a network issue rather than a programmatic one at this
point. Sorry, I'm of no use with network issues :) I'm just a code monkey

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7%********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application
(running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server
behind my second firewall?

Thanks George,
Dan.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL call that way, which is ridiculously slow.

Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the firewall?
I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hi,
>
> I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL

database

> backend. If my (planned)architecture is:
>
> Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->
Firewall ->
> SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.
>
> then what technology would I typically use to communicate between

the

IIS

> machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?
>
> remoting?
> web service?
>
> Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?
>
> I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS

machine -

> for security reasons.
>
> Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup on

the web?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Dan.
>
>

[Dan Walls]

thanks Rajesh and George,

But I'm actually trying to find out "how" they talk... ie. in asp.net the
code behind file for the login page needs to access the SQL Database which
is on a totally different machine (and behind a firewall).

How does it do this?

Sorry if I'm not being very clear. It's hard to be clear about something you
don't understand :)

Dan.
"Rajesh.V" <Ra***********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uW**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

We had the arch and we got the network guys to open up the second firewall
for port (i think 1440, chk sql docs) for communication between the sql and the webserver. That way thur this open port only these two can communicate.
"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Dan,
I think it becomes a network issue rather than a programmatic one at this

point. Sorry, I'm of no use with network issues :) I'm just a code monkey
"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7%********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application
(running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server
behind my second firewall?

Thanks George,
Dan.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
> authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL > call that way, which is ridiculously slow.
>
> Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the firewall?
> I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should

be able

> to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely
>
> "Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL
database
> > backend. If my (planned)architecture is:
> >
> > Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->
> Firewall ->
> > SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.
> >
> > then what technology would I typically use to communicate between the IIS
> > machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?
> >
> > remoting?
> > web service?
> >
> > Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?
> >
> > I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS
machine -
> > for security reasons.
> >
> > Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup

on the

> web?
> >
> > Thanks in Advance,
> > Dan.
> >
> >
>
>

[Rajesh.V]

Well Dan, the communication with an Sql server happens thru Tcp/Ip. In tech
terms it uses a port or an address where the server listens for request for
connections. The firewall by default blocks everything which is useless. But
by allowing only certain ports like 80 for http, 25for pop, smtp21, and so
on. Sql i think talks on 1440 port. You can check on the sql documentation.

So here it is of the how the comm happens. Very much from 500 ft ht.

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3O********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

thanks Rajesh and George,

But I'm actually trying to find out "how" they talk... ie. in asp.net the
code behind file for the login page needs to access the SQL Database which
is on a totally different machine (and behind a firewall).

How does it do this?

Sorry if I'm not being very clear. It's hard to be clear about something you don't understand :)

Dan.
"Rajesh.V" <Ra***********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uW**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

We had the arch and we got the network guys to open up the second firewall

for port (i think 1440, chk sql docs) for communication between the sql

and

the webserver. That way thur this open port only these two can

communicate.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Dan,
I think it becomes a network issue rather than a programmatic one at this point. Sorry, I'm of no use with network issues :) I'm just a code monkey
"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7%********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application > (running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server > behind my second firewall?
>
> Thanks George,
> Dan.
>
> "George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
> > authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL

> > call that way, which is ridiculously slow.
> >
> > Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the

firewall? > > I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able
> > to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely
> >
> > "Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL
> database
> > > backend. If my (planned)architecture is:
> > >
> > > Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->
> > Firewall ->
> > > SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.
> > >
> > > then what technology would I typically use to communicate

between the

> IIS
> > > machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?
> > >
> > > remoting?
> > > web service?
> > >
> > > Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?
> > >
> > > I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS
> machine -
> > > for security reasons.
> > >
> > > Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup

on the
> > web?
> > >
> > > Thanks in Advance,
> > > Dan.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Rajesh.V]

Well Dan, the communication with an Sql server happens thru Tcp/Ip. In tech
terms it uses a port or an address where the server listens for request for
connections. The firewall by default blocks everything which is useless. But
by allowing only certain ports like 80 for http, 25for pop, smtp21, and so
on. Sql i think talks on 1440 port. You can check on the sql documentation.

So here it is of the how the comm happens. Very much from 500 ft ht.

"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3O********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

thanks Rajesh and George,

But I'm actually trying to find out "how" they talk... ie. in asp.net the
code behind file for the login page needs to access the SQL Database which
is on a totally different machine (and behind a firewall).

How does it do this?

Sorry if I'm not being very clear. It's hard to be clear about something you don't understand :)

Dan.
"Rajesh.V" <Ra***********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uW**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

We had the arch and we got the network guys to open up the second firewall

for port (i think 1440, chk sql docs) for communication between the sql

and

the webserver. That way thur this open port only these two can

communicate.

"George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Dan,
I think it becomes a network issue rather than a programmatic one at this point. Sorry, I'm of no use with network issues :) I'm just a code monkey
"Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7%********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> That's sort of my question I think - how would my asp.net application > (running on the IIS server) talk to the SQL database on another server > behind my second firewall?
>
> Thanks George,
> Dan.
>
> "George Durzi" <gdurzi@nospam_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I think you would be slowing down you application severely if you
> > authenticate using remoting or web services. You'll have to do every SQL

> > call that way, which is ridiculously slow.
> >
> > Can't the IIS machine have access to your SQL through the

firewall? > > I'm not really good with networking issues, but I think you should be able
> > to allow your IIS server to "see" your SQL server securely
> >
> > "Dan Walls" <wa****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:6E*********************@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just had a question regarding forms authentication using a SQL
> database
> > > backend. If my (planned)architecture is:
> > >
> > > Internet -> firewall -> DMZ (IIS - access to User Interface) ->
> > Firewall ->
> > > SQL User Database, Application Server, SQL application database.
> > >
> > > then what technology would I typically use to communicate

between the

> IIS
> > > machine in my DMZ and the SQL user database?
> > >
> > > remoting?
> > > web service?
> > >
> > > Are there advantages/disadvantages to using either of these?
> > >
> > > I don't want to host the SQL user database in the DMZ on the IIS
> machine -
> > > for security reasons.
> > >
> > > Is anyone aware of any examnples/tutorials of this sort of setup

on the
> > web?
> > >
> > > Thanks in Advance,
> > > Dan.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>