Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next version of
MS Office. I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2 weeks
ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded to the issue that
MS will in effect, do just that. The instructor said that MS has realized
that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database system (when Access
would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much better job of "analyzing
data and transforming it into meaningful information" than Access could ever
do, there are plans at Redmond to create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access
(perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both applications in the Office suite. Has
anyone else heard, suspect or know of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
21  1415 
Earl Anderson wrote:
Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next version of
MS Office. I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2 weeks
ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded to the issue that
MS will in effect, do just that. The instructor said that MS has realized
that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database system (when Access
would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much better job of "analyzing
data and transforming it into meaningful information" than Access could ever
do, there are plans at Redmond to create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access
(perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both applications in the Office suite. Has
anyone else heard, suspect or know of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
ludicrous
On Aug 4, 7:40*am, "Earl Anderson" <isob...@optonline.netwrote:
Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next versionof
MS Office. *I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2 weeks
ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded to the issue that
MS will in effect, do just that. *The instructor said that MS has realized
that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database system (when Access
would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much better job of "analyzing
data and transforming it into meaningful information" than Access could ever
do, there are plans at Redmond to create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access
(perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both applications in the Office suite. *Has
anyone else heard, suspect or know of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
Did you by any chance catch the name of the mind altering substance
that the instructor was using?
"Bob Alston" <bo********@yahoo.comwrote
ludicrous
Amen, brother.
I don't think I would be breaking NDA to say that I have never heard the
faintest whisper of such from anyone in Microsoft. (NDA covers not
disclosing what you _have_ heard, not disclosing what you have _not_ heard.)
It's possible, of course, that your Excel instructor has a direct line to
high Microsoft officials and that I will be unpleasantly surprised by such
an announcement, but I'd more likely believe that your Exel instructor will
wither away of extreme old age before such a union occurs.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
Bob,
Reading and interpreting the definition of "ludicrous", I really don't see
that term applying to this developmental concept. It is neither 'farcical'
nor 'completely beyond belief'. When I queried "Excel" in this newsgroup,
there were >30k hits. Clearly, there are many instances (>30k) where folks
have had Excel related questions within the realm and operation of Access.
As I think about it, Excel, as well as Word, have some sort of database
functionality built-in already, therefore, it is not beyond the possibility
that the concept has an established basis upon which to expand upon the
existing. I just wonder if anyone actually knows if it is true or not.
Earl
"Bob Alston" <bo********@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:I4****************@newsfe03.iad...
Earl Anderson wrote:
>Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next version
of MS Office. I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2
weeks ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer
application software learning center in which the instructor alluded to
the issue that MS will in effect, do just that. The instructor said that
MS has realized that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database
system (when Access would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much
better job of "analyzing data and transforming it into meaningful
information" than Access could ever do, there are plans at Redmond to
create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access (perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both
applications in the Office suite. Has anyone else heard, suspect or know
of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
ludicrous
Unfortunately, you got an instructor who didn't know what he was talking
about. Happens frequently with technical subjects.
Chris
Microsoft MVP
Earl Anderson wrote:
>Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next version of
MS Office. I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2 weeks
ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded to the issue that
MS will in effect, do just that. The instructor said that MS has realized
that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database system (when Access
would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much better job of "analyzing
data and transforming it into meaningful information" than Access could ever
do, there are plans at Redmond to create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access
(perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both applications in the Office suite. Has
anyone else heard, suspect or know of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
"Earl Anderson" <is*****@optonline.netwrote in message
news:48**********************@cv.net...
Bob,
Reading and interpreting the definition of "ludicrous", I really don't see
that term applying to this developmental concept. It is neither
'farcical' nor 'completely beyond belief'.
Actually, in my case it is. I seen the next version running already.
When I queried "Excel" in this newsgroup, there were >30k hits. Clearly,
there are many instances (>30k) where folks have had Excel related
questions within the realm and operation of Access.
I agree with the above. Often we take data out of ms-access and send it to
excel. Excel is a great business tool. Excel is not relational, and excel
really struggles when you need to pull related data together. And Excel not
really that good at building reports like you can in ms-access. So, often
you find that **many** access applications start out as Excel. And, you find
often that we take LARGE amounts of data from ms-access, summarizes it, and
then send the results to Excel. So, Excel is really more for the viewing
end, and "playing" with some of the data for those "what if" type scenarios.
Where ms-access is a tool that allows you to work with data (edit, modify,
summarize, report).
In other words, ms-access is better then excel at grouping, and summering
data. However, once you used the database to get summary data, then Excel
starts to win out in playing with that summary data.
As I think about it, Excel, as well as Word, have some sort of database
functionality built-in already, therefore, it is not beyond the
possibility that the concept has an established basis upon which to expand
upon the existing. I just wonder if anyone actually knows if it is true
or not.
No it is not true.
(however, there is of course some components that Excel and Access do share
now, and will share in the future).
However, here is bill Gates talking about ms-access and it's future. This is
from march/April this year. So, it is quite new, and note how Bill Gates
makes NO hint that somehow ms-access is going away, or somehow ms-access +
excel are converging in some fashion. http://blogs.msdn.com/danielfe/archi...interview.aspx
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada pl*****************@msn.com
"Earl Anderson" <is*****@optonline.netwrote in message
news:48**********************@cv.net...
Bob,
Reading and interpreting the definition of "ludicrous", I really don't see
that term applying to this developmental concept. It is neither
'farcical' nor 'completely beyond belief'.
For some of us it is!
(in my case it is. I seen the next version running).
When I queried "Excel" in this newsgroup, there were >30k hits. Clearly,
there are many instances (>30k) where folks have had Excel related
questions within the realm and operation of Access.
I agree with the above. Often we take data out of ms-access and send it to
excel. Excel is a great business tool. Excel is not relational, and excel
really struggles when you need to pull related data together. And Excel not
really that good at building reports like you can in ms-access. So, often
you find that **many** access applications start out as Excel (we love the
Excel people in this way!!).
And often you find we take LARGE amounts of data from ms-access, summarizes
it, and then send the results to Excel to play with. Excel is really more
for the
viewing end, and "playing" with some of the data for those "what if" type
scenarios.
Where ms-access is a tool that allows you to work with data (edit, modify,
summarize, build user interface, report).
I find that access is better then excel at grouping and summering
data (say totals by customer). However once you used the database
to get that summary data, then Excel starts to win out when
playing with that summary data.
As I think about it, Excel, as well as Word, have some sort of database
functionality built-in already, therefore, it is not beyond the
possibility that the concept has an established basis upon which to expand
upon the existing. I just wonder if anyone actually knows if it is true
or not.
No it is not true.
(there is of course some components that Excel and Access do share
now and will share in the future).
However, here is bill Gates talking about ms-access and it's future. This is
from march/April this year. So, it is quite new, and note how Bill Gates
makes NO hint that somehow ms-access is going away, or somehow ms-access +
excel are converging in some fashion. http://blogs.msdn.com/danielfe/archi...interview.aspx
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada pl*****************@msn.com
"Albert D. Kallal" <Pl*******************@msn.comwrote in message
news:PDrlk.112481$kx.33839@pd7urf3no...
>
"Earl Anderson" <is*****@optonline.netwrote in message
news:48**********************@cv.net...
I agree with the above. Often we take data out of ms-access and send it to
excel. Excel is a great business tool. Excel is not relational, and excel
really struggles when you need to pull related data together. And Excel
not
really that good at building reports like you can in ms-access. So, often
you find that **many** access applications start out as Excel (we love the
Excel people in this way!!).
And often you find we take LARGE amounts of data from ms-access,
summarizes
it, and then send the results to Excel to play with. Excel is really more
for the
viewing end, and "playing" with some of the data for those "what if" type
scenarios.
Where ms-access is a tool that allows you to work with data (edit, modify,
summarize, build user interface, report).
I find that access is better then excel at grouping and summering
data (say totals by customer). However once you used the database
to get that summary data, then Excel starts to win out when
playing with that summary data.
What you have related here is exactly what the Excel instructor was trying
to express as the rationale for reaping the "best of both" and coming up
with a 'hybrid'.
No it is not true.
However, here is bill Gates talking about ms-access and it's future. This
is
from march/April this year. So, it is quite new, and note how Bill Gates
makes NO hint that somehow ms-access is going away, or somehow ms-access +
excel are converging in some fashion.
Dr. Gates makes no indication (either way) that the instructor's statement
are true, however, I can still see some new mega "Accel" whereby classic
Excel is utilized for some purposes and classic Access is used for others
and a combination is used for other reasons as appropriate.
Thx for the responses...
Earl
>
--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com
Perhaps the instructor was using something to Excess?
On Aug 3, 5:40*pm, "Earl Anderson" <isob...@optonline.netwrote:
Very recently someone asked about Access 'going away' in the next versionof
MS Office. *I found that a curious and ironic question inasmuch as 2 weeks
ago I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded to the issue that
MS will in effect, do just that. *The instructor said that MS has realized
that since many use Excel as a sort of 'ad hoc' database system (when Access
would be the proper tool) while Excel does a much better job of "analyzing
data and transforming it into meaningful information" than Access could ever
do, there are plans at Redmond to create a 'Hybrid' of Excel & Access
(perhaps "Accel"?) to replace both applications in the Office suite. *Has
anyone else heard, suspect or know of these MS plans?
thx...
Earl Anderson
So in the end, you think your opinion that your instructor is right has been
validated. Despite the arguments of recognized experts more intimately
involved in Access and the Microsoft developers and program manager. Despite
the known deficiencies in Excel that can't be rectified by merging with
Access because they're mutually exclusive implementations of the concepts.
Despite the difficulties in querying the data from Excel (every dataset has
to be a named range), maintaining data types, enforcing referential integrity,
and keeping it multiuser. A spreadsheet app is so far away from meeting the
needs of a relational database engine it's not even funny. But you're going
to spread the word of your instructor's brilliant insight about the roadmap
ahead for Excel and Access.
And you'll be laughed at when you do. Only the uninformed and some Excel
users will believe you.
Chris
Microsoft MVP
Earl Anderson wrote:
>What you have related here is exactly what the Excel instructor was trying
to express as the rationale for reaping the "best of both" and coming up
with a 'hybrid'.
>No it is not true.
However, here is bill Gates talking about ms-access and it's future. This
is
from march/April this year. So, it is quite new, and note how Bill Gates
makes NO hint that somehow ms-access is going away, or somehow ms-access +
excel are converging in some fashion.
Dr. Gates makes no indication (either way) that the instructor's statement
are true, however, I can still see some new mega "Accel" whereby classic
Excel is utilized for some purposes and classic Access is used for others
and a combination is used for other reasons as appropriate.
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
I am told that if you can get the MS Office CD and grind it up into a
very fine powder you can get Access and Excel to mix rather well. Not
to mention Word and the myriad of other applications. Take enough of
the stuff and, well..............
The Frog
On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:51:53 GMT, "Chris O'C via AccessMonster.com"
<u29189@uwewrote:
>Unfortunately, you got an instructor who didn't know what he was talking
about. Happens frequently with technical subjects.
Chris
Microsoft MVP
Is it possible that the instructor was talking about re-instating the "annalize
with Excel" function?
Chuck
--
Does your instructor also mention the most recent ms applications ?
Accword, Exclook, Accpage, Wordpoint, Excexpress :)
Would you mind looking into the nearer future (this afternoon) and
giving me the winner of the first race at Woodbine?
On Aug 3, 8:53*pm, "Earl Anderson" <isob...@optonline.netwrote:
I can still see some new mega "Accel" whereby classic
Excel is utilized for some purposes and classic Access is used for others
and a combination is used for other reasons as appropriate.
"Earl Anderson" <is*****@optonline.netwrote in message
news:48**********************@cv.net...
I took an Advanced Excel course from a US-based computer application
software learning center in which the instructor alluded
<snip>
In my experience, the majority of "instructors" in Office applications are
incredible bullshippers. I don't think this one was in the minority.
:)
Keith.
To call Excel (an excellent data analysis tool) a database is pushing
the term somewhat and to mention Word at all is an interesting take on
semantics.
Surely it is true to say that although you can use a screwdriver as a
chisel and vice versa it is much better for either tool (and usually
any task requiring such tools) to use the appropriate tool not to
mention it's usually quicker and safer!
I for one shall continue to design and build databases using database
tools such as Access, Design and build spreadsheets to manipulate
figures (and make lists!) using Excel and finally produce documents
using Word as a word/document processor!
Chris,
Actually, I haven't gotten anywhere near the point of "validating" the
instructor's assertions or prophesy. He made a statement to a class of 100+
students and I merely asked the question of this group --sorry if I offended
anyone. Some of the relevant points that Albert made about Excel were the
same ones he made in his citing the reasons for the mating of the 2 Office
Apps. Now it appears that you've assumed I've become this instructor's
prophet and deserve a personal attack (for asking a question??) Hopefully
it won't disappoint you, but I have no intention of "spreading the word",
because I will believe it when I see it (maybe).
Earl
"Chris O'C via AccessMonster.com" <u29189@uwewrote in message
news:882792a74279f@uwe...
So in the end, you think your opinion that your instructor is right has
been
validated. Despite the arguments of recognized experts more intimately
involved in Access and the Microsoft developers and program manager.
Despite
the known deficiencies in Excel that can't be rectified by merging with
Access because they're mutually exclusive implementations of the concepts.
Despite the difficulties in querying the data from Excel (every dataset
has
to be a named range), maintaining data types, enforcing referential
integrity,
and keeping it multiuser. A spreadsheet app is so far away from meeting
the
needs of a relational database engine it's not even funny. But you're
going
to spread the word of your instructor's brilliant insight about the
roadmap
ahead for Excel and Access.
And you'll be laughed at when you do. Only the uninformed and some Excel
users will believe you.
Chris
Microsoft MVP
Earl Anderson wrote:
>>What you have related here is exactly what the Excel instructor was trying
to express as the rationale for reaping the "best of both" and coming up
with a 'hybrid'.
>>No it is not true.
However, here is bill Gates talking about ms-access and it's future.
This
is
from march/April this year. So, it is quite new, and note how Bill Gates
makes NO hint that somehow ms-access is going away, or somehow ms-access
+
excel are converging in some fashion.
Dr. Gates makes no indication (either way) that the instructor's statement
are true, however, I can still see some new mega "Accel" whereby classic
Excel is utilized for some purposes and classic Access is used for others
and a combination is used for other reasons as appropriate.
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
Earl Anderson wrote:
Chris,
Actually, I haven't gotten anywhere near the point of "validating" the
instructor's assertions or prophesy. He made a statement to a class of 100+
students and I merely asked the question of this group --sorry if I offended
anyone. Some of the relevant points that Albert made about Excel were the
same ones he made in his citing the reasons for the mating of the 2 Office
Apps. Now it appears that you've assumed I've become this instructor's
prophet and deserve a personal attack (for asking a question??) Hopefully
it won't disappoint you, but I have no intention of "spreading the word",
because I will believe it when I see it (maybe).
Earl
Go away
I do heaps of access development down under ( in australia) and the
big thing clients like most is an excel like view as well as being
able to get the summarized data back into excel.
So the concept of combining them is what alot of us Database
Developers do!
So in effect, most of the time, we deliver Axcel Applications all the
time!
Tom Bizannes
Sydney Australia
Wow, this thread started out as an odd digression, and now it has
become -- uh -- not sure.
We could change the subject, perhaps to something like "why employing
the AutoNumber data type as a primary key is a fantastically bad
choice" : )
Mark H.
Integrating Access and Excel is a development job. I think it is
fairly common to do this for a lot of Access based jobs, but that is a
far cry from integrating the two applications together.
As I see it what is really being done is that Access is being used to
do the heavy lifting and database work, while the user is playing with
the results in Excel. If MS wanted to add a lot of the Excel
analytical features to Access forms for example then I would be more
than happy to make use of them. I still cant see however that the two
methods of handling data - structured and validated in Access vs.
gobbldygook in Excel - can be really made to work together. Excels
'attarction' for a lot of users is its unstructured nature and the
fact that they dont have to know diddly about a lot of data handling
methodology to be able to get stuff to work. Access simply doesnt work
that way and a proper database CANT work that way.
IMHO the instructor is speaking out of his / her arse and trying to
bignote. OLE is AFAIK the only way to really achieve this integration
properly, and having enough knowledge to do this - even if it were
made 'technically' simple - is still far beyond what the average
punter knows or will ever know about handling data.
Just my 2 cents
The Frog
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