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Problem with join on same table in two different dbs

P: n/a
I have two databases, db1 and db2, with the same table, TableA. I want to
select the records from TableA in db1 that have a LAST_UPDATE SomeDate.
Then I want to get the identical records in TableA from db2. However the
LAST_UPDATE dates will be different between db1 and db2. That's the point. If
they are different, then there were changes made to the record in db1. I'm
going to then process this further to find out what the changes were.

But right now I just want to construct an SQL statement that I can use in
code to return the data that I need. Ultimately, I'm going to run this code
on over 100 tables. That's why I need to apply some type of filter (i.e.
LAST_UPDATE SomeDate) in order to have this overall process completed in a
short time.

I guess the statement could just get all records where the LAST_UPDATE is
different between TableA in db1 and TableA in db2. But speed is important,
because ultimately I will apply it to the 100 tables.

Note that db1 is the current database and db2 is an external database.

So, for example, I would have thought the following would work:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

SELECT A.*, B.* FROM [TableA] As A
LEFT JOIN (SELECT * FROM [C:\.....].[TableA]) AS B ON (A.FIELD1 = B.FIELD1)
AND (A.FIELD2= B.FIELD2) AND (A.FIELD3= B.FIELD3)
WHERE A.LAST_UPDATE #SomeDate#

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
What's happening right now is that all records from the table are being
returned. In the test case I should have had 1 record returned and instead I
got all of them (1500+)

Thanks.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #1
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40 Replies


P: n/a
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:27:21 GMT, "rdemyan via AccessMonster.com"
<u6836@uwewrote:

That's what Left Join is designed to do. Why not use an Inner Join?
-Tom.

>I have two databases, db1 and db2, with the same table, TableA. I want to
select the records from TableA in db1 that have a LAST_UPDATE SomeDate.
Then I want to get the identical records in TableA from db2. However the
LAST_UPDATE dates will be different between db1 and db2. That's the point. If
they are different, then there were changes made to the record in db1. I'm
going to then process this further to find out what the changes were.

But right now I just want to construct an SQL statement that I can use in
code to return the data that I need. Ultimately, I'm going to run this code
on over 100 tables. That's why I need to apply some type of filter (i.e.
LAST_UPDATE SomeDate) in order to have this overall process completed in a
short time.

I guess the statement could just get all records where the LAST_UPDATE is
different between TableA in db1 and TableA in db2. But speed is important,
because ultimately I will apply it to the 100 tables.

Note that db1 is the current database and db2 is an external database.

So, for example, I would have thought the following would work:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

SELECT A.*, B.* FROM [TableA] As A
LEFT JOIN (SELECT * FROM [C:\.....].[TableA]) AS B ON (A.FIELD1 = B.FIELD1)
AND (A.FIELD2= B.FIELD2) AND (A.FIELD3= B.FIELD3)
WHERE A.LAST_UPDATE #SomeDate#

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
What's happening right now is that all records from the table are being
returned. In the test case I should have had 1 record returned and instead I
got all of them (1500+)

Thanks.
Dec 26 '06 #2

P: n/a
Inner Join also gives undesired result, for the SQL statement as written.

Let me put in words what I want. db1 is the current database (with all the
linked tables). db2 is a copy of the backend that was made when my app opens
for a session. When the app is closed by the user, I want to find the
differences between db1 and db2.

These differences consist of edited data, added data and deleted data. FOR
NOW, I'm just working on finding changes in data that existed when the app
was opened. Therefore I'm looking for records that have the same primary key
in each identical tableA (one in db1 and one in db2). SomeDate is the
Date/Time that is set when my app opens. The purpose of this is to filter
the data that is searched (I have 110 tables and the backend is currently 120
MB in sizer). That way I'm only looking for data that was changed during the
session (rather than checking each row in each table). Even with the code as
it currently is, where it is returning all rows and looking for differences,
the code executes over the 100 tables in less than 30 seconds. If I can get
the SQL to work correctly, it'll probably drop significantly.

Thanks.

Tom van Stiphout wrote:
>That's what Left Join is designed to do. Why not use an Inner Join?
-Tom.
>>I have two databases, db1 and db2, with the same table, TableA. I want to
select the records from TableA in db1 that have a LAST_UPDATE SomeDate.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>>
Thanks.
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #3

P: n/a
Oops! I did in fact run code in my app that cause the 1500+ rows to change
the Last_Update (as it should).

So, here's the SQL statement I have with the INNER JOIN:

SELECT A.*, B.* FROM [TableA] As A
INNER JOIN (SELECT * FROM [C:\.....].[TableA]) AS B ON (A.FIELD1 = B.FIELD1)
AND (A.FIELD2= B.FIELD2) AND (A.FIELD3= B.FIELD3)
WHERE A.LAST_UPDATE #SomeDate#

Is this correct for what I want based on my previous post. I want the
records from linked TableA in db1 where LAST_UPDATE #SomeDate# and with
that I want to grab the corresponding records from B in db2.

Thanks.

rdemyan wrote:
>Inner Join also gives undesired result, for the SQL statement as written.

Let me put in words what I want. db1 is the current database (with all the
linked tables). db2 is a copy of the backend that was made when my app opens
for a session. When the app is closed by the user, I want to find the
differences between db1 and db2.

These differences consist of edited data, added data and deleted data. FOR
NOW, I'm just working on finding changes in data that existed when the app
was opened. Therefore I'm looking for records that have the same primary key
in each identical tableA (one in db1 and one in db2). SomeDate is the
Date/Time that is set when my app opens. The purpose of this is to filter
the data that is searched (I have 110 tables and the backend is currently 120
MB in sizer). That way I'm only looking for data that was changed during the
session (rather than checking each row in each table). Even with the code as
it currently is, where it is returning all rows and looking for differences,
the code executes over the 100 tables in less than 30 seconds. If I can get
the SQL to work correctly, it'll probably drop significantly.

Thanks.
>>That's what Left Join is designed to do. Why not use an Inner Join?
-Tom.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>>
Thanks.
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #4

P: n/a

rdemyan via AccessMonster.com wrote:
Inner Join also gives undesired result, for the SQL statement as written.

Let me put in words what I want. db1 is the current database (with all the
linked tables). db2 is a copy of the backend that was made when my app opens
for a session. When the app is closed by the user, I want to find the
differences between db1 and db2.

These differences consist of edited data, added data and deleted data. FOR
NOW, I'm just working on finding changes in data that existed when the app
was opened. Therefore I'm looking for records that have the same primary key
in each identical tableA (one in db1 and one in db2). SomeDate is the
Date/Time that is set when my app opens. The purpose of this is to filter
the data that is searched (I have 110 tables and the backend is currently 120
MB in sizer). That way I'm only looking for data that was changed during the
session (rather than checking each row in each table). Even with the code as
it currently is, where it is returning all rows and looking for differences,
the code executes over the 100 tables in less than 30 seconds. If I can get
the SQL to work correctly, it'll probably drop significantly.

Thanks.

Tom van Stiphout wrote:
That's what Left Join is designed to do. Why not use an Inner Join?
This is a free newsgroup and anyone may post whatever he/she wishes.

Not surprisingly, anyone may respond in any way he/she wishes.

It seems to me that you are creating/have created a large and
complicated application. It also seems to me that such an application
is beyond your present capabilities. Judging from your posts, questions
and responses, I believe that your skill-level is low to mediocre, and
your knowledge basic. Worst of all you seem to have little
understanding of logic, and almost none of the way computers and their
programs work. For whatever reason, your self-confidence is not
mitigated by these characteristics.

You choose to post from a site whose owners profit by borrowing
without any recompense or direct recognition whatever the knowledge I
and others contribute freely.
Previously, when others have implied what I am saying directly, you
have sailed on regardless.

You may have potential to be a great programmer/developer. I do not
know. But I do think you are not there yet.

I think your application will be a compendium of borrowed technical
solutions (one or two of which may be mine, I'm not sure). It may work
well and it may not. If there is a problem with it, I doubt that its
creator can analyse and correct the problem.

I believe Access development should not be "Begin, and ask on Access
Monster how to accomplish each step".

Plonk!

Dec 26 '06 #5

P: n/a
So you see no educational value to anyone else in ascertaining if this is the
correct SQL to achieve the desired results?

Lyle Fairfield wrote:
>Inner Join also gives undesired result, for the SQL statement as written.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>
>That's what Left Join is designed to do. Why not use an Inner Join?

This is a free newsgroup and anyone may post whatever he/she wishes.

Not surprisingly, anyone may respond in any way he/she wishes.

It seems to me that you are creating/have created a large and
complicated application. It also seems to me that such an application
is beyond your present capabilities. Judging from your posts, questions
and responses, I believe that your skill-level is low to mediocre, and
your knowledge basic. Worst of all you seem to have little
understanding of logic, and almost none of the way computers and their
programs work. For whatever reason, your self-confidence is not
mitigated by these characteristics.

You choose to post from a site whose owners profit by borrowing
without any recompense or direct recognition whatever the knowledge I
and others contribute freely.
Previously, when others have implied what I am saying directly, you
have sailed on regardless.

You may have potential to be a great programmer/developer. I do not
know. But I do think you are not there yet.

I think your application will be a compendium of borrowed technical
solutions (one or two of which may be mine, I'm not sure). It may work
well and it may not. If there is a problem with it, I doubt that its
creator can analyse and correct the problem.

I believe Access development should not be "Begin, and ask on Access
Monster how to accomplish each step".

Plonk!
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #6

P: n/a
>I think your application will be a compendium of borrowed technical
>solutions (one or two of which may be mine, I'm not sure). It may work
well and it may not. If there is a problem with it, I doubt that its
creator can analyse and correct the problem.
No need to be concerned. I will not be using the code you posted for
repositioning an external app. In the future you might consider adding a
note that you wrote the code and that others may use it, but need to include
a header that you add to your code.

May I suggest that you not respond to my posts in the future. You constant
abuse is beginning to wear thin.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

Dec 26 '06 #7

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" wrote
I think your application will be a compendium
of borrowed technical solutions (one or two of
which may be mine, I'm not sure). It may work
well and it may not. If there is a problem with it,
I doubt that its creator can analyse and correct
the problem.
No need to be concerned. I will not be using the
code you posted for repositioning an external app.
In the future you might consider adding a note that
you wrote the code and that others may use it, but
need to include a header that you add to your code.
FYI, US and Canadian (if I remember correctly) copyright law, (Canadian
applies to Lyle's posts), provides that an original work is automatically
copyrighted by the author when it is reduced to tangible form -- thus, at
the very least, you should credit the author if you use it whether or not
there is a note as you suggest; strictly speaking, you should obtain
permission from the author.

Many, however, believe that such permission is implied when the author posts
on the Internet, in a newsgroup or website. Some believe, quite wrongly,
that posting puts the posted item in the "public domain."
May I suggest that you not respond to my posts
in the future. You constant abuse is beginning to
wear thin.
One of Lyle's points is that you post in the newsgroup via "AccessMonster"
which he perceives as profiting from work done "pro bono" by many in this
and in other Access newsgroups.

Another is that there is a lot that can be learned by self-study, and
materials for self-study are widely available (many of them free), and that
having done some basic self-study enables one to better understand the
answers to specific questions.

I'd point out that newsgroups are not intended for the purpose of having
"ready access to free consulting" but for learning... learning by the
poster, sometimes by the responder, and always for others who read the
exchange, as well. If you become widely perceived, as you seem to be by
Lyle, as someone who uses the newsgroup to get someone else to write your
application for you, one little piece after another, then it will be
difficult to obtain help when you need it even if it is within the intent of
newsgroups.

This is an unmoderated newsgroup; anyone can post and anyone can respond. If
you don't like, or don't appreciate, a response, you are free to ignore it
(or to reply to it, unless you become abusive which is almost certainly a
violation of the Terms of Service of your news server). Lyle is free to
ignore your posts, and he has expedited doing so with his "PLONK" (that
means he has killfiled, or twit-filtered, you in his newsreader, so that he
will no longer see your posts except when some other participant quotes you
in their posts, as I did here).

Larry Linson
Dec 26 '06 #8

P: n/a
I do not see how asking for help on a single SQL statement constitues getting
others to write the code for me. This is one or two lines out of thousands.
Further, if you check some of Lyle's past responses to me you will see that
they are obnoxiously condescending and abusive. I believe I can honestly say
that I have always responded to his abusive posts politely and without
getting personal.

However, it appears that Lyle no longer wants me to post in this forum and
that MVPs such as yourself will be backing him up. Therefore, I will no
longer post in this forum.

To those that have helped me in the past, thank you!

Larry Linson wrote:
I think your application will be a compendium
of borrowed technical solutions (one or two of
which may be mine, I'm not sure). It may work
well and it may not. If there is a problem with it,
I doubt that its creator can analyse and correct
the problem.
No need to be concerned. I will not be using the
code you posted for repositioning an external app.
In the future you might consider adding a note that
you wrote the code and that others may use it, but
need to include a header that you add to your code.

FYI, US and Canadian (if I remember correctly) copyright law, (Canadian
applies to Lyle's posts), provides that an original work is automatically
copyrighted by the author when it is reduced to tangible form -- thus, at
the very least, you should credit the author if you use it whether or not
there is a note as you suggest; strictly speaking, you should obtain
permission from the author.

Many, however, believe that such permission is implied when the author posts
on the Internet, in a newsgroup or website. Some believe, quite wrongly,
that posting puts the posted item in the "public domain."
May I suggest that you not respond to my posts
in the future. You constant abuse is beginning to
wear thin.

One of Lyle's points is that you post in the newsgroup via "AccessMonster"
which he perceives as profiting from work done "pro bono" by many in this
and in other Access newsgroups.

Another is that there is a lot that can be learned by self-study, and
materials for self-study are widely available (many of them free), and that
having done some basic self-study enables one to better understand the
answers to specific questions.

I'd point out that newsgroups are not intended for the purpose of having
"ready access to free consulting" but for learning... learning by the
poster, sometimes by the responder, and always for others who read the
exchange, as well. If you become widely perceived, as you seem to be by
Lyle, as someone who uses the newsgroup to get someone else to write your
application for you, one little piece after another, then it will be
difficult to obtain help when you need it even if it is within the intent of
newsgroups.

This is an unmoderated newsgroup; anyone can post and anyone can respond. If
you don't like, or don't appreciate, a response, you are free to ignore it
(or to reply to it, unless you become abusive which is almost certainly a
violation of the Terms of Service of your news server). Lyle is free to
ignore your posts, and he has expedited doing so with his "PLONK" (that
means he has killfiled, or twit-filtered, you in his newsreader, so that he
will no longer see your posts except when some other participant quotes you
in their posts, as I did here).

Larry Linson
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #9

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b58b553c29de@uwe...
I do not see how asking for help on a single SQL statement constitues
getting
others to write the code for me. This is one or two lines out of
thousands.

In response to this statement, I went to the archive at groups.google.com
and see that you have posted to about a hundred unique message threads.
Apparently Lyle got the impression that you were relying too heavily on
others; that's not an issue on which I'd care to make a judgement.
Further, if you check some of Lyle's past responses to me you will see
that
they are obnoxiously condescending and abusive. I believe I can honestly
say
that I have always responded to his abusive posts politely and without
getting personal.
I'd also not care to spend time and energy going back and trying to evaluate
who was unkind to whom, or trying to determine whose attitude was
appropriate. I've "crossed words" with Lyle a few times, myself, but I
respect his knowledge and ability far too much to "write him off" because I
thought him "snippy" and I have had, in times past, an even stronger
opinion.

Given your response to Lyle, I thought you may have misunderstood:

-- Lyle's position (he didn't want to see your posts, which is what
"plonk", "killfile", or "twitfilter" does; but he didn't make
an attempt to stop your posting)

-- the necessity for a "statement" in posted code to "protect" it
(it is legally protected without a statement, it is, as a practical
matter, impossible to protect posted code, except perhaps
from being sold by someone else)

and, that an explanation of those, and some specific issues, might be
helpful.
However, it appears that Lyle no longer wants me to post in this forum and
that MVPs such as yourself will be backing him up. Therefore, I will no
longer post in this forum.
It appears to me that you are oversensitive and are overreacting .

I certainly made no objection to your posting in comp.databases.ms-access,
nor did I either endorse or condemn Lyle's statements. Anyone can post;
anyone can respond. I certainly have no power or authority to prevent anyone
from posting -- MVPs have no "authority" in any case... we've just been
recognized by Microsoft for our assistance to users of Microsoft software.
Nor does the fact that I cast one of the official original approving votes
to establish this newsgroup back in 1993 give me any "authority" -- though I
do have a certain interest in the newsgroup being productive.

If someone is abusive, the appropriate action is a polite complaint to the
abusive party's news server -- as abusive posting is almost certainly
against the news server's Acceptable Use Policy or Terms of Service. Have
you tried that route? Be sure to include the offensive post with full USENET
headers. It almost certainly has more chance of success than a "public
pout."

I have no objection to anyone posting via "AccessMonster," but am unfamiliar
with the advantages, if any, of doing so instead of reading/posting to the
newsgroup directly. I do know that some believe they profit from the pro
bono work of others.

Larry Linson


Dec 26 '06 #10

P: n/a
We can agree to disagree. If I ask a question like how to move an exterior
application on the screen and Lyle decides to post a plethora of code in a
public forum with no expectation for recompense, that is his problem. He
should not pout about it afterwards; he shouldn't have posted it in the first
place. I'm not using it anyway. I can honestly say that with the exception
of what I thought was a clever way to refer to tables in another DB (as
opposed to using IN), I doubt I have used much of anything that Lyle has
posted. Who here can say they have never learned anything from anyone else
and all code is original without ever relying on help. The premise that this
is not the case is absurd. This is an educational forum, is it not? If a
responder is really concerned about their "propreitary code", THEN DON'T POST
IT!
>I have no objection to anyone posting via "AccessMonster," but am unfamiliar
with the advantages, if any, of doing so instead of reading/posting to the
newsgroup directly. I do know that some believe they profit from the pro
bono work of others.

Larry Linson
I have no idea what your above statement means as I know of no other way to
get at this forum than through AccessMonster. If I should not be using this,
than please direct me to the correct newsgroup. I don't understand why
someone would be offended if I post in AccessMonster. And if there's good
reason to be offended, how would I know that?? I have always tried in the
past to follow forum convention as I realize that responders here are under
no obligation to prrovide help; indeed they're sharing their knowledge with
those of us who, typically, have chosen non-software programming career paths.
I have always been grateful for the help I have received as virtually every
post attests to. However, that is no excuse to abuse and badger those of us
with less experience.
On the surface this objecton over posting in AccessMonster is ludricous. If
no one should be posting here, then shut it down, and let us know where to
post.

You and I both know that Lyle, while no doubt an experience software
programmer, is an abusive and condescending individual. Because he may be an
expert does not IMHO mean that I have to take that abuse.
Thanks.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #11

P: n/a
comp.databases.ms-access is a USENET newsgroup, is carried by a great many
news servers, and is readable via a great many news readers. I get it on
the news server provided by my ISP, and read (mostly) with Outlook Express.
It's also archived on, and current messages accessible via,
http://groups.google.com. There are also online newservers, too, but I
don't use any of them, so you'd have to search for them.

I thought I was clear, but, if you didn't understand -- I said I don't have
any problem with posting via AccessMonster, so you are wasting your effort
by responding as though I did. But even those who object haven't the
authority to shut it down, as you (facetiously?) suggest.

Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
free, in a free and public newsgroup.

If you don't like Lyle's attitude... respond to him about it (privately or
publicly), ignore it, or complain to his news server (usually there's a
Complain-To line in the headers). If you were reading via a news reader, you
could "plonk", "killfile", or "twitfilter" him so as not to see his posts.
Using the newsgroup indirectly, as you are, I don't know how you'd do
that -- maybe ask at AccessMonster?

But whining here about not posting here isn't going to gain you anything:
and, presuming you do*, on occasion, get some useful answers from someone,
it would cost you those if you carried through.

* and, as you've continued to post questions, I would
guess that you do, or you wouldn't waste your time
and energy

Larry Linson

"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b5a7be0dd642@uwe...
We can agree to disagree. If I ask a question like how to move an
exterior
application on the screen and Lyle decides to post a plethora of code in a
public forum with no expectation for recompense, that is his problem. He
should not pout about it afterwards; he shouldn't have posted it in the
first
place. I'm not using it anyway. I can honestly say that with the
exception
of what I thought was a clever way to refer to tables in another DB (as
opposed to using IN), I doubt I have used much of anything that Lyle has
posted. Who here can say they have never learned anything from anyone
else
and all code is original without ever relying on help. The premise that
this
is not the case is absurd. This is an educational forum, is it not? If a
responder is really concerned about their "propreitary code", THEN DON'T
POST
IT!
>>I have no objection to anyone posting via "AccessMonster," but am
unfamiliar
with the advantages, if any, of doing so instead of reading/posting to the
newsgroup directly. I do know that some believe they profit from the pro
bono work of others.

Larry Linson

I have no idea what your above statement means as I know of no other way
to
get at this forum than through AccessMonster. If I should not be using
this,
than please direct me to the correct newsgroup. I don't understand why
someone would be offended if I post in AccessMonster. And if there's good
reason to be offended, how would I know that?? I have always tried in the
past to follow forum convention as I realize that responders here are
under
no obligation to prrovide help; indeed they're sharing their knowledge
with
those of us who, typically, have chosen non-software programming career
paths.
I have always been grateful for the help I have received as virtually
every
post attests to. However, that is no excuse to abuse and badger those of
us
with less experience.
On the surface this objecton over posting in AccessMonster is ludricous.
If
no one should be posting here, then shut it down, and let us know where to
post.

You and I both know that Lyle, while no doubt an experience software
programmer, is an abusive and condescending individual. Because he may be
an
expert does not IMHO mean that I have to take that abuse.
Thanks.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #12

P: n/a
>Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
>He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
free, in a free and public newsgroup.
You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts. Does someone have a gun pointed at his head? What world do you live
in??

And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

Dec 26 '06 #13

P: n/a
You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts.
You _completely_ misunderstand. Look at the Web page you're posting from. See
those ads? Ads by Goooogle. AccessMonster.com gets revenues from those ads.
Profit. Lyle and all the experts in the newsgroups do all the work providing
answers for folks like you who flock to AccessMonster.com and occasionally click
on those ads. AccessMonster.com doesn't share _any_ of those revenues with the
folks who make it possible: Lyle and the thousands of others like him.

Some find AccessMonster.com's owners' actions unfair or even objectionable, even
if you don't.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b5b4a31a69d7@uwe...
Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
free, in a free and public newsgroup.

You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts. Does someone have a gun pointed at his head? What world do you live
in??

And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

Dec 26 '06 #14

P: n/a
Oh!

I didn't realize that, how could I? I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

Well, this is news to me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation. Perhaps if I had
gotten that the first time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't aware of
this.

So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me in
this forum. Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

Thanks.
'69 Camaro wrote:
>You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts.

You _completely_ misunderstand. Look at the Web page you're posting from. See
those ads? Ads by Goooogle. AccessMonster.com gets revenues from those ads.
Profit. Lyle and all the experts in the newsgroups do all the work providing
answers for folks like you who flock to AccessMonster.com and occasionally click
on those ads. AccessMonster.com doesn't share _any_ of those revenues with the
folks who make it possible: Lyle and the thousands of others like him.

Some find AccessMonster.com's owners' actions unfair or even objectionable, even
if you don't.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
>Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 26 '06 #15

P: n/a
Hi.
I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....
And that's why Larry tried so hard to explain it's AccessMonster.com that Lyle
takes umbrage with, not that you're profiting from the code he provides freely.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation.
AccessMonster.com appears to have gone to great lengths to avoid the mention of
UseNet or newsgroups on their Web site, other than "This website includes both
content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by
third parties" in the fine print at the bottom of the page. Unless one
recognizes the names of the "forums" as matching many existing Access newsgroup
names, the fact that these posts are public UseNet articles distributed
worldwide on public news servers is well disguised. It appears that
AccessMonster.com is providing the experts for each member's own personal tech
support, free of charge. AccessMonster.com has merely put a Web interface on a
service that expert volunteers provide free to the public, and AccessMonster.com
is pocketing the advertising money this "free expert tech support" traffic
attracts.
So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me in
this forum.
Lyle speaks his mind, very honestly. Some posters come to the newsgroups with
their task clearly defined in their minds, "the what," and they ask for the
steps to complete "the how." The inexperienced ones often choose destinations
that are loaded with mines and when warned about the minefield ahead, they
choose one of two paths. The ones who follow the first path take pause when
warned of the danger, then follow the advice given. The ones who follow the
second path yell, "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

Although you don't want to hear what's been said, if you re-read the threads
you've posted for the past two weeks, you may well see which path you're on and
why Lyle wrote what he wrote. And if you re-read these threads in two years,
don't be surprised at your own reaction.
Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.
You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very generous with his
considerable knowledge and expertise. This is not an event to celebrate.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b5bf5ce650be@uwe...
Oh!

I didn't realize that, how could I? I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

Well, this is news to me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation. Perhaps if I had
gotten that the first time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't aware of
this.

So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me in
this forum. Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

Thanks.
'69 Camaro wrote:
>>You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts.

You _completely_ misunderstand. Look at the Web page you're posting from.
See
those ads? Ads by Goooogle. AccessMonster.com gets revenues from those ads.
Profit. Lyle and all the experts in the newsgroups do all the work providing
answers for folks like you who flock to AccessMonster.com and occasionally
click
on those ads. AccessMonster.com doesn't share _any_ of those revenues with
the
folks who make it possible: Lyle and the thousands of others like him.

Some find AccessMonster.com's owners' actions unfair or even objectionable,
even
if you don't.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
>>Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 27 '06 #16

P: n/a
I've switched over and am now poting in the Usenet group.

'69 Camaro wrote:
Hi.
I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

And that's why Larry tried so hard to explain it's AccessMonster.com that Lyle
takes umbrage with, not that you're profiting from the code he provides freely.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation.

AccessMonster.com appears to have gone to great lengths to avoid the mention of
UseNet or newsgroups on their Web site, other than "This website includes both
content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by
third parties" in the fine print at the bottom of the page. Unless one
recognizes the names of the "forums" as matching many existing Access newsgroup
names, the fact that these posts are public UseNet articles distributed
worldwide on public news servers is well disguised. It appears that
AccessMonster.com is providing the experts for each member's own personal tech
support, free of charge. AccessMonster.com has merely put a Web interface on a
service that expert volunteers provide free to the public, and AccessMonster.com
is pocketing the advertising money this "free expert tech support" traffic
attracts.
So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me in
this forum.

Lyle speaks his mind, very honestly. Some posters come to the newsgroups with
their task clearly defined in their minds, "the what," and they ask for the
steps to complete "the how." The inexperienced ones often choose destinations
that are loaded with mines and when warned about the minefield ahead, they
choose one of two paths. The ones who follow the first path take pause when
warned of the danger, then follow the advice given. The ones who follow the
second path yell, "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

Although you don't want to hear what's been said, if you re-read the threads
you've posted for the past two weeks, you may well see which path you're on and
why Lyle wrote what he wrote. And if you re-read these threads in two years,
don't be surprised at your own reaction.
Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very generous with his
considerable knowledge and expertise. This is not an event to celebrate.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b5bf5ce650be@uwe...
Oh!

I didn't realize that, how could I? I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

Well, this is news to me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation. Perhaps if I had
gotten that the first time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't aware of
this.

So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me in
this forum. Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

Thanks.
'69 Camaro wrote:
>You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts.

You _completely_ misunderstand. Look at the Web page you're posting from.
See
those ads? Ads by Goooogle. AccessMonster.com gets revenues from those ads.
Profit. Lyle and all the experts in the newsgroups do all the work providing
answers for folks like you who flock to AccessMonster.com and occasionally
click
on those ads. AccessMonster.com doesn't share _any_ of those revenues with
the
folks who make it possible: Lyle and the thousands of others like him.

Some find AccessMonster.com's owners' actions unfair or even objectionable,
even
if you don't.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.

Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1
Dec 27 '06 #17

P: n/a
"rdemyan" wrote
I've switched over and am now posting in the Usenet group.
Glad to have you here (though I don't have the strong feelings about
AccessMonster that some do; but I don't know the advantage of using it
instead of directly accessing the group).

Now, let me add to what Gunny has said. Sometimes the best advice we can
give is "don't do it the way you have planned", because we see a simpler way
which we recommend. Sometimes when we do that, we don't have, or take, the
time to explain in detail why the way we are recommending against is bad,
and why the way we are recommending is better.

And, sometimes, some of us who answer can be "sharp" or "short" or "abrupt"
(or worse) in our replies, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that the
suggested approach is bad. So, sometimes it's worth looking past a
condescension or a perceived insult -- the logic, design, or technical
solution may be the best solution to the problem at hand.

Best of luck with your projects. Keep asking and try not to be touchy about
the tone in which the answers are presented -- that might cause you to
reject the best choice.

Larry Linson

Dec 27 '06 #18

P: n/a
Hi.
I've switched over and am now poting in the Usenet group.
From Google Groups? Don't they show ads and "sponsored links" with posts, too?
<g, d, & r>

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"rdemyan" <rd*****@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
I've switched over and am now poting in the Usenet group.

'69 Camaro wrote:
>Hi.
I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

And that's why Larry tried so hard to explain it's AccessMonster.com that
Lyle
takes umbrage with, not that you're profiting from the code he provides
freely.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation.

AccessMonster.com appears to have gone to great lengths to avoid the mention
of
UseNet or newsgroups on their Web site, other than "This website includes
both
content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled
by
third parties" in the fine print at the bottom of the page. Unless one
recognizes the names of the "forums" as matching many existing Access
newsgroup
names, the fact that these posts are public UseNet articles distributed
worldwide on public news servers is well disguised. It appears that
AccessMonster.com is providing the experts for each member's own personal
tech
support, free of charge. AccessMonster.com has merely put a Web interface on
a
service that expert volunteers provide free to the public, and
AccessMonster.com
is pocketing the advertising money this "free expert tech support" traffic
attracts.
So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me
in
this forum.

Lyle speaks his mind, very honestly. Some posters come to the newsgroups
with
their task clearly defined in their minds, "the what," and they ask for the
steps to complete "the how." The inexperienced ones often choose
destinations
that are loaded with mines and when warned about the minefield ahead, they
choose one of two paths. The ones who follow the first path take pause when
warned of the danger, then follow the advice given. The ones who follow the
second path yell, "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

Although you don't want to hear what's been said, if you re-read the threads
you've posted for the past two weeks, you may well see which path you're on
and
why Lyle wrote what he wrote. And if you re-read these threads in two years,
don't be surprised at your own reaction.
Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very generous with
his
considerable knowledge and expertise. This is not an event to celebrate.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in message
news:6b5bf5ce650be@uwe...
Oh!

I didn't realize that, how could I? I've mentioned several times that I'm
a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he meant.....

Well, this is news to me. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have known this
without someone like you providing a clear explanation. Perhaps if I had
gotten that the first time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't aware
of
this.

So my apologies to Larry, but not to Lyle as he has continually mocked me
in
this forum. Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

Thanks.
'69 Camaro wrote:
You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't post the
code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit off of what he
posts.

You _completely_ misunderstand. Look at the Web page you're posting from.
See
those ads? Ads by Goooogle. AccessMonster.com gets revenues from those
ads.
Profit. Lyle and all the experts in the newsgroups do all the work
providing
answers for folks like you who flock to AccessMonster.com and occasionally
click
on those ads. AccessMonster.com doesn't share _any_ of those revenues with
the
folks who make it possible: Lyle and the thousands of others like him.

Some find AccessMonster.com's owners' actions unfair or even objectionable,
even
if you don't.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact
info.

Don't be silly -- Lyle doesn't post code and then expect to be paid for
it.
He just objects to someone else making a profit off what many of us do
for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
And that'll be my last post. From other similar discussions I've seen
you
get involved in, I know you have to have the last post, so I relinquish.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200612/1

Dec 27 '06 #19

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in
news:6b5397babda80@uwe:
SELECT A.*, B.* FROM [TableA] As A
LEFT JOIN (SELECT * FROM [C:\.....].[TableA]) AS B ON (A.FIELD1 =
B.FIELD1) AND (A.FIELD2= B.FIELD2) AND (A.FIELD3= B.FIELD3)
WHERE A.LAST_UPDATE #SomeDate#
Why are you using a subselect?

Why not just:

SELECT A.*, B.*
FROM TableA AS A INNER JOIN TableB AS B ON A.Field3 = B.Field3
WHERE A.Last_Update < B.Last_Update

This ought to get you the matching records (assuming Field3 is the
PK) where TableB has been updated after TableA.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #20

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in
news:6b58b553c29de@uwe:
However, it appears that Lyle no longer wants me to post in this
forum and that MVPs such as yourself will be backing him up.
Therefore, I will no longer post in this forum.
I'm not an MVP, but I see no reason for you not to post. Ignore
those who criticize you.

And ignore both Lyle and Larry's point -- I think they're completely
wrong.

Then again, I've had lots of interaction with you and know perfectly
well what you're like and what knowledge you have, and know that
Lyle's assertions are quite baseless.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #21

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.notwrote in
news:P5fkh.2677$%M1.1731@trnddc08:
I have no objection to anyone posting via "AccessMonster," but am
unfamiliar with the advantages, if any, of doing so instead of
reading/posting to the newsgroup directly. I do know that some
believe they profit from the pro bono work of others.
If your ISP doesn't provide a news server you have to pay to
subscribe to one, or use one that is public. The Microsoft groups
can be accessed through MS's public news server, but CDMA cannot.
So, many people access CDMA through websites that repackage Usenet
posts, like AccessMonster. It's by far not the only website
repackaging CDMA content, as I've found when googling posts of my
own, and it annoys the hell out of me. The only thing worse than
that are the websites that subscribe to private listservs and then
post the messages on their website.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #22

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in
news:6b5a7be0dd642@uwe:
I have no idea what your above statement means as I know of no
other way to get at this forum than through AccessMonster.
CDMA is just a Usenet group, available on any news server with a
full newsfeed. All AccessMonster does is republish it with a
(terrible) web interface. If you can find a public news server or
subscribe to a non-public one, you can post directly to Usenet,
without the intervention of the AccessMonster website.

[]
On the surface this objecton over posting in AccessMonster is
ludricous. If no one should be posting here, then shut it down,
and let us know where to post.
My objecions to AccessMonster are two-fold:

1. most of the people who post there have no idea about the
etiquette of quoting and don't quote anything at all from the
messages they are replying to. The result is that their messages
often come out of the blue with no context. You obviously understand
Usenet etiquette and quote appropriately, so that's not applicable
to you.

2. AccessMonster sells ads and makes money off of republishing
content that was posted on Usenet, a public forum where no one
profits from the posts. This annoys a lot of people, including me.
If I could prohibit AccessMonster from republishing my posts, I'd do
so.

Google Groups also sells ads, but they provide a full archive of all
of Usenet, going back to the beginning, as well as excellent search
functionality, so I don't mind their making money because they add
real value to the content.

But I can't see what value AccessMonster adds that justifies their
profiting from advertisements.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #23

P: n/a
"rdemyan via AccessMonster.com" <u6836@uwewrote in
news:6b5b4a31a69d7@uwe:
You are the one being silly. The simple answer is he shouldn't
post the code if he objects to someone potentially making a profit
off of what he posts.
I think you're misreading the whole point. It's *AccessMonster* that
is being criticized for profiting from Lyle's (and everyone else's)
work, not someone like you who adapts his code to your own apps.

I object to AccessMonster, too, but there isn't a damned thing I can
do about it.

Any code I post in the newsgroup is posted for the explicit purpose
of allowing others to use it, even in commercial apps.

But I still find it very annoying that a website is republishing my
posts and selling ads and making money off of my work without
actually adding any significant value at all.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #24

P: n/a
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:UL******************************@adelphia.com :
>I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he
meant.....

And that's why Larry tried so hard to explain it's
AccessMonster.com that Lyle takes umbrage with, not that you're
profiting from the code he provides freely.
And Larry did a very poor job of wording it, as it was not until a
few posts back that I realized he was criticizing *only*
AccessMonster and not the present poster.

[]
>Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very
generous with his considerable knowledge and expertise. This is
not an event to celebrate.
I find Lyle's advice to be highly idiosyncratic and often not
helpful. I plonked him a long time ago because of that.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #25

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.notwrote in
news:s2qkh.1080$cI.1030@trnddc05:
Now, let me add to what Gunny has said. Sometimes the best advice
we can give is "don't do it the way you have planned", because we
see a simpler way which we recommend. Sometimes when we do that,
we don't have, or take, the time to explain in detail why the way
we are recommending against is bad, and why the way we are
recommending is better.
The present poster is quite able to do that. If you're interested,
check out the long group of threads he's been involved in on
microsoft.public.access.replication, and you'll see a case where he
resisted advice, then came around, and then found out it wasn't
going to work anyway, and then figure out his own solution (which is
the problem he's working on in this particular thread).

He's stubborn -- very stubborn.

But he listens.

He may ask "WHY???" very forcefully, but he thinks about the
responses and doesn't just reject them out of hand as what you write
above implies.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #26

P: n/a
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:vK******************************@adelphia.com :
>I've switched over and am now poting in the Usenet group.

From Google Groups? Don't they show ads and "sponsored links"
with posts, too?
<g, d, & r>
Yes, but they actually provide a very useful service, quite unlike
AccessMonster.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #27

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.notwrote in
news:ivckh.955$Ej7.943@trnddc02:
One of Lyle's points is that you post in the newsgroup via
"AccessMonster" which he perceives as profiting from work done
"pro bono" by many in this and in other Access newsgroups.
I've been through a very long thread in the replication newsgroup
with this same poster. There, he doesn't post through AccessMonster.
Now, why would that be? Perhaps it's because Microsoft provides a
public news server, and there isn't any public news server available
to him that offers CDMA.

[]
I'd point out that newsgroups are not intended for the purpose of
having "ready access to free consulting" but for learning...
learning by the poster, sometimes by the responder, and always for
others who read the exchange, as well.
In the long replication discussion, there's been a lot of learning
and valuable discussion on both sides. I really don't see why Lyle's
reacted the way he has. I've had extremely detailed interactions
with this poster, and while he's *very* stubborn, he's not dumb (and
when it comes to stubborn, nobody can out-stubborn me!).
If you become widely perceived, as you seem to be by
Lyle, as someone who uses the newsgroup to get someone else to
write your application for you, one little piece after another,
then it will be difficult to obtain help when you need it even if
it is within the intent of newsgroups.
He has done nothing at all like that on the replication issue.
Indeed, the problem this post is about is derived from his
abandonment of replication in favor of writing his own homegrown
synchronization code.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 27 '06 #28

P: n/a
David W. Fenton wrote:
Any code I post in the newsgroup is posted for the explicit purpose
of allowing others to use it, even in commercial apps.
Both times?

Dec 27 '06 #29

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1:
I find Lyle's advice to be highly idiosyncratic and often not
helpful.
I plonked him a long time ago because of that.
You find the advice of someone you plonked a long time ago to be highly
idiosyncratic and often not helpful?

How?

Lyle Fairfield
Dec 28 '06 #30

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1:

2. AccessMonster sells ads and makes money off of republishing
content that was posted on Usenet, a public forum where no one
profits from the posts.
"off of"?

Ewwwwwwww!

--
Lyle Fairfield
Dec 28 '06 #31

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" wrote
And Larry did a very poor job of wording it, as
it was not until a few posts back that I realized
he was criticizing *only* AccessMonster and
not the present poster.
Actually, David, if you'll re-read a few more times, you'll see that I was
not criticizing Access Monster, but only trying to explain why I think Lyle
and others are so un-fond of it.

As you said elsewhere in this thread about your posts, I post material in
hopes that it will be useful to someone. If Access Monster, Google Groups,
and others re-post the material and do not charge people to access it, they
are expediting what I try to do.

And, there's no practical way of preventing people from using our posts in
CD collections of material they gather online and sell. I've had very polite
replies agreeing to remove my posts from such collections, but as I was
never willing to send $$$ for a copy of the CD, I'll never know if they did
or not. And, once I realized it was fruitless, I stopped spending time and
effort complaining about the practice.

Larry Linson

Dec 28 '06 #32

P: n/a
Hi, David.
Yes, but they actually provide a very useful service, quite unlike
AccessMonster.
I just checked AccessMonster's search engine. It goes back 3.5 years, so
they've made an effort to improve their Web site, but searches are still very
limited in scope and flexibility. Google Groups' search capability is much,
much better. However, Google Groups has been cleaning out its archives. A lot
of messages and threads are gone. About 40% of my posts aren't listed in
advanced searches, so I suppose anyone who's been posting for several years or
more probably has a similar amount missing.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn*********************************@127.0.0.1 ...
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:vK******************************@adelphia.com :
>>I've switched over and am now poting in the Usenet group.

From Google Groups? Don't they show ads and "sponsored links"
with posts, too?
<g, d, & r>

Yes, but they actually provide a very useful service, quite unlike
AccessMonster.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Dec 28 '06 #33

P: n/a
Hi, David.
>>Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very
generous with his considerable knowledge and expertise. This is
not an event to celebrate.

I find Lyle's advice to be highly idiosyncratic and often not
helpful. I plonked him a long time ago because of that.
I've found I've learned much from the denizens of the Access newsgroups. We
have some very talented and generous experts who post here. You, Larry, and
Lyle are three of them. I wouldn't want rdemyan or anyone else who wants to
learn more about Access and databases to miss out on a treasure trove of
knowledge over a disagreement in a discussion.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:UL******************************@adelphia.com :
>>I've mentioned several times that I'm a
consultant in this forum and by profit I naturally thought he
meant.....

And that's why Larry tried so hard to explain it's
AccessMonster.com that Lyle takes umbrage with, not that you're
profiting from the code he provides freely.

And Larry did a very poor job of wording it, as it was not until a
few posts back that I realized he was criticizing *only*
AccessMonster and not the present poster.

[]
>>Frankly, I'm glad he has plonked me.

You may not like his demeanor at times, but Lyle is very, very
generous with his considerable knowledge and expertise. This is
not an event to celebrate.

I find Lyle's advice to be highly idiosyncratic and often not
helpful. I plonked him a long time ago because of that.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Dec 28 '06 #34

P: n/a
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Zt******************************@adelphia.com :
However, Google Groups has been cleaning out its archives. A lot
of messages and threads are gone. About 40% of my posts aren't
listed in advanced searches, so I suppose anyone who's been
posting for several years or more probably has a similar amount
missing.
I can find none of my posts missing going back to 1994. Are you sure
you're looking under the right email addresses?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 28 '06 #35

P: n/a
Hi, David.
Are you sure
you're looking under the right email addresses?
Yes. I've posted under three E-mail addresses, but whether I add those up or
check the count by author as "69 Camaro," the number is a few thousand shy of
the sum of the number of posts in my Outlook Express Sent box, the number posted
through Google Groups, and the number posted through Microsoft Online
Communities. I have proof of nearly 5,500 posts, all as '69 Camaro. There's a
few hundred more, but I'd have to go through old backups for proof.

This lists 3,440 posts (but at least 7 aren't mine):

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off

The profile (E-mail address) for the most recent post shows only 3,565 posts.
The other two address profiles show 100 posts and 27 posts. That's almost 2K
shy of what it should be.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Zt******************************@adelphia.com :
>However, Google Groups has been cleaning out its archives. A lot
of messages and threads are gone. About 40% of my posts aren't
listed in advanced searches, so I suppose anyone who's been
posting for several years or more probably has a similar amount
missing.

I can find none of my posts missing going back to 1994. Are you sure
you're looking under the right email addresses?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Dec 29 '06 #36

P: n/a
Hi, David.

And it's not just my own messages that are missing from searches. Messages and
occasionally whole threads are missing from the archive. I've looked for
message ID's I downloaded from my ISP's news server, but couldn't find them in
Google Groups. I've also looked for discussion threads that I'd read a few
years ago and wanted to refresh my memory, but they aren't in Google Groups any
more.

For example, I wanted to review the two discussions on Jet's covered queries
from a few years ago. As I recall, there were two threads of discussions in the
Access newsgroups plus a few threads where covered queries were mentioned, but
not really discussed. I could only find one thread where it was mentioned, but
it wasn't discussed at length. I know that covered queries aren't a hot topic
to discuss in the Access newsgroups, but doesn't it seem like in all these years
it would have been mentioned a good number of times and discussed at length at
least once? Or is this a Twilight Zone episode where I'm the only one who
remembers what "used to be there, I'd swear it!"?

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AMwrote in
message news:LN******************************@adelphia.com ...
Hi, David.
>Are you sure
you're looking under the right email addresses?

Yes. I've posted under three E-mail addresses, but whether I add those up or
check the count by author as "69 Camaro," the number is a few thousand shy of
the sum of the number of posts in my Outlook Express Sent box, the number
posted through Google Groups, and the number posted through Microsoft Online
Communities. I have proof of nearly 5,500 posts, all as '69 Camaro. There's
a few hundred more, but I'd have to go through old backups for proof.

This lists 3,440 posts (but at least 7 aren't mine):

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off

The profile (E-mail address) for the most recent post shows only 3,565 posts.
The other two address profiles show 100 posts and 27 posts. That's almost 2K
shy of what it should be.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
>"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Zt******************************@adelphia.com :
>>However, Google Groups has been cleaning out its archives. A lot
of messages and threads are gone. About 40% of my posts aren't
listed in advanced searches, so I suppose anyone who's been
posting for several years or more probably has a similar amount
missing.

I can find none of my posts missing going back to 1994. Are you sure
you're looking under the right email addresses?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/


Dec 29 '06 #37

P: n/a
"'69 Camaro" wrote
I've found I've learned much from the denizens
of the Access newsgroups. We have some very
talented and generous experts who post here.
You, Larry, and Lyle are three of them.
Thanks for the very kind words, Gunny.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Dec 29 '06 #38

P: n/a
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Bs******************************@adelphia.com :
And it's not just my own messages that are missing from searches.
Messages and occasionally whole threads are missing from the
archive. I've looked for message ID's I downloaded from my ISP's
news server, but couldn't find them in Google Groups. I've also
looked for discussion threads that I'd read a few years ago and
wanted to refresh my memory, but they aren't in Google Groups any
more.
There was a time when Google (or Dejanews) restored the archives
from copies they got from all over, and they weren't honoring
No-Archive headers -- they later removed all of those. Have you ever
used that?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 29 '06 #39

P: n/a
Hi, David.
they weren't honoring
No-Archive headers -- they later removed all of those. Have you ever
used that?
No. But here's something I noticed way back when Google Groups first became
"groups-beta.google.com" near the end of 2004. I'd search a topic, such as an
error message, and not get nearly as many hits as I expected. Then I'd do the
same search at groups.google.ca or groups.google.co.uk, and those searches
revealed 5% to 35% more results, as if they were searching a different database
of posts. Eventually, all the other English-speaking Google domains switched to
the same search methodology as the first groups-beta did and inherited the new
Google Groups interface and what looked like (to me) fewer posts to search from
than they'd had before the changeover.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Bs******************************@adelphia.com :
>And it's not just my own messages that are missing from searches.
Messages and occasionally whole threads are missing from the
archive. I've looked for message ID's I downloaded from my ISP's
news server, but couldn't find them in Google Groups. I've also
looked for discussion threads that I'd read a few years ago and
wanted to refresh my memory, but they aren't in Google Groups any
more.

There was a time when Google (or Dejanews) restored the archives
from copies they got from all over, and they weren't honoring
No-Archive headers -- they later removed all of those. Have you ever
used that?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Dec 29 '06 #40

P: n/a
Hi, David.

Doh! Mystery solved. I'm embarrassed because I didn't take a closer look at
all those messages in my Sent folder. There are a bunch of duplicate messages,
all in 2004 and some of 2005. I don't know how they got there, but I know who
the culprit is -- me! The Google count is only a tiny bit lower than it should
be. That I can live with.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AMwrote in
message news:l7******************************@adelphia.com ...
Hi, David.
>they weren't honoring
No-Archive headers -- they later removed all of those. Have you ever
used that?

No. But here's something I noticed way back when Google Groups first became
"groups-beta.google.com" near the end of 2004. I'd search a topic, such as an
error message, and not get nearly as many hits as I expected. Then I'd do the
same search at groups.google.ca or groups.google.co.uk, and those searches
revealed 5% to 35% more results, as if they were searching a different
database of posts. Eventually, all the other English-speaking Google domains
switched to the same search methodology as the first groups-beta did and
inherited the new Google Groups interface and what looked like (to me) fewer
posts to search from than they'd had before the changeover.

HTH.
Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact info.
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalidwrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
>"'69 Camaro" <Fo**************************@Spameater.orgZERO_SP AM>
wrote in news:Bs******************************@adelphia.com :
>>And it's not just my own messages that are missing from searches.
Messages and occasionally whole threads are missing from the
archive. I've looked for message ID's I downloaded from my ISP's
news server, but couldn't find them in Google Groups. I've also
looked for discussion threads that I'd read a few years ago and
wanted to refresh my memory, but they aren't in Google Groups any
more.

There was a time when Google (or Dejanews) restored the archives
from copies they got from all over, and they weren't honoring
No-Archive headers -- they later removed all of those. Have you ever
used that?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/


Dec 31 '06 #41

This discussion thread is closed

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