Error 3197 but there are no memo fields

[Jan]

Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database engine
stopped the process because you and another user are attempting to
change the same data at the same time.") in a client database. It
started appearing about a month ago and has gotten worse and worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about corruption
in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those in this database. I
took a copy of the backend, did compact/repair, opened each table and
searched for corrupt fields, even sorted on each field in each table,
which usually turns up a problem if there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in fact it's
intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot and can almost
produce it on demand, while others get it only occasionally. I watched
it appear, tried to track it down, but couldn't catch what was going on.
The error seems to propagate independent of any keyboard action; after
the initial error, I was sitting there trying to figure out where to
look and the error would just pop up again and again even though I
wasn't touching the screen (and no one else was on the system at that
moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in A97 and
convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my office; the client
has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet access at all (don't ask...)
so they can't download patches, etc; they're dependent on an IT staff
that sometimes responds in a couple of days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at straws
here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent of keyboard action
gets me wondering). They have McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of course)
share a back end but each have a copy of the front end on their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

Jan

[Sharktbbtfy]

"Jan" <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote in message
news:12*************@corp.supernews.com...

Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database engine
stopped the process because you and another user are attempting to
change the same data at the same time.") in a client database. It
started appearing about a month ago and has gotten worse and worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about corruption
in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those in this database. I
took a copy of the backend, did compact/repair, opened each table and
searched for corrupt fields, even sorted on each field in each table,
which usually turns up a problem if there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in fact it's
intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot and can almost
produce it on demand, while others get it only occasionally. I watched
it appear, tried to track it down, but couldn't catch what was going on.
The error seems to propagate independent of any keyboard action; after
the initial error, I was sitting there trying to figure out where to
look and the error would just pop up again and again even though I
wasn't touching the screen (and no one else was on the system at that
moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in A97 and
convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my office; the client
has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet access at all (don't ask...)
so they can't download patches, etc; they're dependent on an IT staff
that sometimes responds in a couple of days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at straws
here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent of keyboard action
gets me wondering). They have McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of course)
share a back end but each have a copy of the front end on their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

This might be too simplistic but here's two things that I know have caused
trouble.

1) How do you deliver? If it's by Memory stick/USB Drive,etc, try by CD.

2) Is autocorrect turned off on their beasts?

--
Sharktbbtfy

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays you
can't expect to have a functioning app without being current on
patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't want to
chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack. As a matter
of fact we write startup code to check for minimum levels of Jet and
Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.

We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen interference with
Access databases.

-Tom.

>Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database engine
stopped the process because you and another user are attempting to
change the same data at the same time.") in a client database. It
started appearing about a month ago and has gotten worse and worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about corruption
in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those in this database. I
took a copy of the backend, did compact/repair, opened each table and
searched for corrupt fields, even sorted on each field in each table,
which usually turns up a problem if there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in fact it's
intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot and can almost
produce it on demand, while others get it only occasionally. I watched
it appear, tried to track it down, but couldn't catch what was going on.
The error seems to propagate independent of any keyboard action; after
the initial error, I was sitting there trying to figure out where to
look and the error would just pop up again and again even though I
wasn't touching the screen (and no one else was on the system at that
moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in A97 and
convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my office; the client
has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet access at all (don't ask...)
so they can't download patches, etc; they're dependent on an IT staff
that sometimes responds in a couple of days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at straws
here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent of keyboard action
gets me wondering). They have McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of course)
share a back end but each have a copy of the front end on their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

Jan

[Jan]

So do you think that this could be an issue of patches? Or should they
go to a different version of Access? Has anyone seen this problem in
this context?

My client is actually fine with the concept of patches etc, but her
program is in an office that's part of the City of Chicago
and the city's IT dept is just overloaded and slow.

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays you
can't expect to have a functioning app without being current on
patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't want
to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack. As a
matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum levels of
Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.

We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen interference
with Access databases.

-Tom.

>Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database engine
stopped the process because you and another user are attempting to
change the same data at the same time.") in a client database. It
started appearing about a month ago and has gotten worse and
worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about
corruption in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those in
this database. I took a copy of the backend, did compact/repair,
opened each table and searched for corrupt fields, even sorted on
each field in each table, which usually turns up a problem if
there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in fact
it's intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot and can
almost produce it on demand, while others get it only occasionally.
I watched it appear, tried to track it down, but couldn't catch
what was going on. The error seems to propagate independent of any
keyboard action; after the initial error, I was sitting there
trying to figure out where to look and the error would just pop up
again and again even though I wasn't touching the screen (and no
one else was on the system at that moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in A97
and convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my office;
the client has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet access at
all (don't ask...) so they can't download patches, etc; they're
dependent on an IT staff that sometimes responds in a couple of
days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at
straws here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent of
keyboard action gets me wondering). They have McAfee VirusScan
Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of
course) share a back end but each have a copy of the front end on
their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

Jan

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:25:08 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I think it could be something environmental, because the behavior is
different on different machines.
One option might be to build a virgin machine (only Windows and Office
on it, fully patched), and have the user with the most problems work
on that. I might even have that user work with a local back-end, so
I'm taking the network and other users out of the equation. Simplify
the problem, and it should become reproducible. Then you can figure
out if it's the machine or the program.

A simple way to produce this problem on a single machine is to have
two forms looking at the same data; one is in edit mode and then you
try to edit in the second form. None of that going on in your app?

-Tom.

>So do you think that this could be an issue of patches? Or should they
go to a different version of Access? Has anyone seen this problem in
this context?

My client is actually fine with the concept of patches etc, but her
program is in an office that's part of the City of Chicago
and the city's IT dept is just overloaded and slow.

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays you
can't expect to have a functioning app without being current on
patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't want
to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack. As a
matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum levels of
Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.

We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen interference
with Access databases.

-Tom.

>>Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database engine
stopped the process because you and another user are attempting to
change the same data at the same time.") in a client database. It
started appearing about a month ago and has gotten worse and
worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about
corruption in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those in
this database. I took a copy of the backend, did compact/repair,
opened each table and searched for corrupt fields, even sorted on
each field in each table, which usually turns up a problem if
there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in fact
it's intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot and can
almost produce it on demand, while others get it only occasionally.
I watched it appear, tried to track it down, but couldn't catch
what was going on. The error seems to propagate independent of any
keyboard action; after the initial error, I was sitting there
trying to figure out where to look and the error would just pop up
again and again even though I wasn't touching the screen (and no
one else was on the system at that moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in A97
and convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my office;
the client has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet access at
all (don't ask...) so they can't download patches, etc; they're
dependent on an IT staff that sometimes responds in a couple of
days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at
straws here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent of
keyboard action gets me wondering). They have McAfee VirusScan
Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of
course) share a back end but each have a copy of the front end on
their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

Jan

[Jan]

I did try to have her work on a different machine with a copy of both
the front end and the back end (though the back end was still on the
network), and I think she was able to reproduce the problem
(although I can't remember for sure; we went through it so many times!).
But it isn't just on her machine; all the different users run into the
problem at one time or another, it's just
that she gets it the most frequently.

And I have given them multiple new versions of the front end; the
problem disappears for a brief time, then starts to appear, and
multiplies til they're getting it on almost every record.

Unfortunately, the "virgin machine" option isn't really available in
this group; they just don't have the equipment available.

As for your question of two instances looking at the same data, no that
isn't happening here; they get the error even when no one else is even
logged into the database.

(FYI, the data entry on this db isn't consistent; it's a telephone
helpline, so calls come in sporadically, there are many users and about
six computers, and they're entering a range of data that can vary a lot
from one call to another, even in terms of what fields are used and what
whole sections are left blank.)

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:25:08 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I think it could be something environmental, because the behavior is
different on different machines. One option might be to build a
virgin machine (only Windows and Office on it, fully patched), and
have the user with the most problems work on that. I might even have
that user work with a local back-end, so I'm taking the network and
other users out of the equation. Simplify the problem, and it should
become reproducible. Then you can figure out if it's the machine or
the program.

A simple way to produce this problem on a single machine is to have
two forms looking at the same data; one is in edit mode and then you
try to edit in the second form. None of that going on in your app?

-Tom.

>So do you think that this could be an issue of patches? Or should
they go to a different version of Access? Has anyone seen this
problem in this context?

My client is actually fine with the concept of patches etc, but her
program is in an office that's part of the City of Chicago and the
city's IT dept is just overloaded and slow.

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

>>On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.com>
wrote:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays
you can't expect to have a functioning app without being current
on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't
want to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack.
As a matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum
levels of Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.

We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen interference
with Access databases.

-Tom.
Hi:

I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database
engine stopped the process because you and another user are
attempting to change the same data at the same time.") in a
client database. It started appearing about a month ago and
has gotten worse and worse.

The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about
corruption in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those
in this database. I took a copy of the backend, did
compact/repair, opened each table and searched for corrupt
fields, even sorted on each field in each table, which usually
turns up a problem if there's corruption, and found nothing.

I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in
fact it's intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot
and can almost produce it on demand, while others get it only
occasionally. I watched it appear, tried to track it down, but
couldn't catch what was going on. The error seems to propagate
independent of any keyboard action; after the initial error, I
was sitting there trying to figure out where to look and the
error would just pop up again and again even though I wasn't
touching the screen (and no one else was on the system at that
moment).

Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in
A97 and convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my
office; the client has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet
access at all (don't ask...) so they can't download patches,
etc; they're dependent on an IT staff that sometimes responds
in a couple of days but isn't consistent.

Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at
straws here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent
of keyboard action gets me wondering). They have McAfee
VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.

FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of
course) share a back end but each have a copy of the front end
on their c: drive.

Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?

Jan

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:13:38 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I'm hearing that the problem disappears with a fresh version, only to
reappear and get worse over time. That sounds more like your app doing
something unexpected. Is it significantly growing in size? Are you
creating forms dynamically? Or queries? Are you saving form objects
(docmd.close me.name, acSaveYes)?

Some more general things to check: Are they using other Access apps
with similar problems? Are they shutting down the machines every
evening? Are there any network problems?

Is there an option to give them a fresh copy of the front-end every
morning? Tony Toews FE_Updater may be able to assist with this.

Can you build one of your own machines for this "virgin machine" test?

-Tom.

>I did try to have her work on a different machine with a copy of both
the front end and the back end (though the back end was still on the
network), and I think she was able to reproduce the problem
(although I can't remember for sure; we went through it so many times!).
But it isn't just on her machine; all the different users run into the
problem at one time or another, it's just
that she gets it the most frequently.

And I have given them multiple new versions of the front end; the
problem disappears for a brief time, then starts to appear, and
multiplies til they're getting it on almost every record.

Unfortunately, the "virgin machine" option isn't really available in
this group; they just don't have the equipment available.

As for your question of two instances looking at the same data, no that
isn't happening here; they get the error even when no one else is even
logged into the database.

(FYI, the data entry on this db isn't consistent; it's a telephone
helpline, so calls come in sporadically, there are many users and about
six computers, and they're entering a range of data that can vary a lot
from one call to another, even in terms of what fields are used and what
whole sections are left blank.)

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:25:08 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I think it could be something environmental, because the behavior is
different on different machines. One option might be to build a
virgin machine (only Windows and Office on it, fully patched), and
have the user with the most problems work on that. I might even have
that user work with a local back-end, so I'm taking the network and
other users out of the equation. Simplify the problem, and it should
become reproducible. Then you can figure out if it's the machine or
the program.

A simple way to produce this problem on a single machine is to have
two forms looking at the same data; one is in edit mode and then you
try to edit in the second form. None of that going on in your app?

-Tom.

>>So do you think that this could be an issue of patches? Or should
they go to a different version of Access? Has anyone seen this
problem in this context?

My client is actually fine with the concept of patches etc, but her
program is in an office that's part of the City of Chicago and the
city's IT dept is just overloaded and slow.

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.com>
wrote:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays
you can't expect to have a functioning app without being current
on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't
want to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack.
As a matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum
levels of Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.

We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen interference
with Access databases.

-Tom.
Hi:
>
I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet database
engine stopped the process because you and another user are
attempting to change the same data at the same time.") in a
client database. It started appearing about a month ago and
has gotten worse and worse.
>
The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk about
corruption in a memo or OLE field, but there are none of those
in this database. I took a copy of the backend, did
compact/repair, opened each table and searched for corrupt
fields, even sorted on each field in each table, which usually
turns up a problem if there's corruption, and found nothing.
>
I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and in
fact it's intermittent at the client's. One user gets it a lot
and can almost produce it on demand, while others get it only
occasionally. I watched it appear, tried to track it down, but
couldn't catch what was going on. The error seems to propagate
independent of any keyboard action; after the initial error, I
was sitting there trying to figure out where to look and the
error would just pop up again and again even though I wasn't
touching the screen (and no one else was on the system at that
moment).
>
Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop in
A97 and convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here at my
office; the client has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have internet
access at all (don't ask...) so they can't download patches,
etc; they're dependent on an IT staff that sometimes responds
in a couple of days but isn't consistent.
>
Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm grasping at
straws here, but the fact that it seems to occur independent
of keyboard action gets me wondering). They have McAfee
VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.
>
FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they (of
course) share a back end but each have a copy of the front end
on their c: drive.
>
Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?
>
Jan

[Jan]

Hi, Tom:

The app isn't growing in size, and no forms or queries are created
dynamically (at least, I know no forms are; I don't think any queries
are).

I don't save form objects (at least, I do docmd.close me.name, but don't
do acSaveYes); could that have an impact?

They don't use any other Access apps, and the machines are virtually
never shut down, as far as I know; this is a 24/7 operation with 3
shifts. I could certainly suggest that they do a shut down/restart
every evening when calls are slow. They do exit Access when they change
shifts, and also I think when they go on break or go to "lunch."

I could give them a fresh copy of the front-end every morning, but I
don't think that would address it; although the problem does increase
with time, it can start up almost immediately with a new version.

Thanks for pursuing this with me.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:13:38 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote:

I'm hearing that the problem disappears with a fresh version, only to
reappear and get worse over time. That sounds more like your app
doing something unexpected. Is it significantly growing in size? Are
you creating forms dynamically? Or queries? Are you saving form
objects (docmd.close me.name, acSaveYes)?

Some more general things to check: Are they using other Access apps
with similar problems? Are they shutting down the machines every
evening? Are there any network problems?

Is there an option to give them a fresh copy of the front-end every
morning? Tony Toews FE_Updater may be able to assist with this.

Can you build one of your own machines for this "virgin machine"
test?

-Tom.

>I did try to have her work on a different machine with a copy of
both the front end and the back end (though the back end was still
on the network), and I think she was able to reproduce the problem
(although I can't remember for sure; we went through it so many
times!). But it isn't just on her machine; all the different users
run into the problem at one time or another, it's just that she
gets it the most frequently.

And I have given them multiple new versions of the front end; the
problem disappears for a brief time, then starts to appear, and
multiplies til they're getting it on almost every record.

Unfortunately, the "virgin machine" option isn't really available
in this group; they just don't have the equipment available.

As for your question of two instances looking at the same data, no
that isn't happening here; they get the error even when no one
else is even logged into the database.

(FYI, the data entry on this db isn't consistent; it's a telephone
helpline, so calls come in sporadically, there are many users and
about six computers, and they're entering a range of data that can
vary a lot from one call to another, even in terms of what fields
are used and what whole sections are left blank.)

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:

>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:25:08 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.com>
wrote:

I think it could be something environmental, because the behavior
is different on different machines. One option might be to build
a virgin machine (only Windows and Office on it, fully patched),
and have the user with the most problems work on that. I might
even have that user work with a local back-end, so I'm taking
the network and other users out of the equation. Simplify the
problem, and it should become reproducible. Then you can figure
out if it's the machine or the program.

A simple way to produce this problem on a single machine is to
have two forms looking at the same data; one is in edit mode and
then you try to edit in the second form. None of that going on
in your app?

-Tom.
So do you think that this could be an issue of patches? Or
should they go to a different version of Access? Has anyone
seen this problem in this context?

My client is actually fine with the concept of patches etc, but
her program is in an office that's part of the City of Chicago
and the city's IT dept is just overloaded and slow.

Thanks.

Jan

Tom van Stiphout wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:01:11 -0600, Jan <ja*@dontspamme.com>
wrote:
>
I know it will be a battle, but client should know that
nowadays you can't expect to have a functioning app without
being current on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for
them. You just don't want to chase down issues that have been
fixed in a service pack. As a matter of fact we write
startup code to check for minimum levels of Jet and Access,
and refuse to run if not found.
>
>
>
>
>
Confronted with stubborn clients we gladly leave them to our
competitors.
>
We have MacAfee Corporate edition, and have not seen
interference with Access databases.
>
-Tom.
>
>
>Hi:
>>
>I've got the Error 3197 problem ("The Microsoft Jet
>database engine stopped the process because you and another
> user are attempting to change the same data at the same
>time.") in a client database. It started appearing about a
> month ago and has gotten worse and worse.
>>
>The responses I saw when I searched on this topic talk
>about corruption in a memo or OLE field, but there are none
> of those in this database. I took a copy of the backend,
> did compact/repair, opened each table and searched for
>corrupt fields, even sorted on each field in each table,
>which usually turns up a problem if there's corruption, and
> found nothing.
>>
>I also can't reproduce the problem here at my office, and
>in fact it's intermittent at the client's. One user gets
>it a lot and can almost produce it on demand, while others
> get it only occasionally. I watched it appear, tried to
>track it down, but couldn't catch what was going on. The
>error seems to propagate independent of any keyboard
>action; after the initial error, I was sitting there trying
> to figure out where to look and the error would just pop
>up again and again even though I wasn't touching the screen
> (and no one else was on the system at that moment).
>>
>Could this have to do with versions of Access? I develop
>in A97 and convert for delivery. I have A97 and AXP here
>at my office; the client has A2000 (SP-3). They don't have
> internet access at all (don't ask...) so they can't
>download patches, etc; they're dependent on an IT staff
>that sometimes responds in a couple of days but isn't
>consistent.
>>
>Could it have to do with anti-virus software? (I'm
>grasping at straws here, but the fact that it seems to
>occur independent of keyboard action gets me wondering).
>They have McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0.0 running.
>>
>FYI, there are 3-5 users logged on at most times, and they
> (of course) share a back end but each have a copy of the
>front end on their c: drive.
>>
>Any recommendations, things to look for, etc.?
>>
>Jan

[David W. Fenton]

Tom van Stiphout <no*************@cox.netwrote in
news:6i********************************@4ax.com:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays
you can't expect to have a functioning app without being current
on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't
want to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack.
As a matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum
levels of Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Since Win2K SP2 and WinXP SP1, the Jet 4 service pack by default on
Windows has been 6 or greater. This is all you need to fix the bugs
in Jet (SP7 was a quickly replaced buggy version; SP8 was the
security patch for the Jet expression service; SP9 is, I believe, a
bug fix to that, with no significant bug fixes for the kinds of
issues that would be seen as bugs in Access).

So, I hardly ever see an unacceptable Jet version any more, since
the vast majority of desktops I work with are either constantly
getting patches from Windows update, or have at least been patched
to the needed Windows service pack versions.

However, it's very easy for the *Access* version to revert. And I
believe none of the release versions of Access are completely
reliable.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[Jan]

Hi, David:

I'm pretty sure the client has WinXP running, though I'm not certain.
Does that mean we're ok on Jet updates, or are you saying that Access 2k
itself can revert the Jet back to a prior, buggy version? (I have to
say I'm a bit shaky on this part of things.)

Do you have any thoughts on why this Error 3197 is persisting?

Thanks.

Jan

David W. Fenton wrote:

Tom van Stiphout <no*************@cox.netwrote in
news:6i********************************@4ax.com:

>I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays
you can't expect to have a functioning app without being current on
patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just don't want
to chase down issues that have been fixed in a service pack. As a
matter of fact we write startup code to check for minimum levels of
Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not found.

Since Win2K SP2 and WinXP SP1, the Jet 4 service pack by default on
Windows has been 6 or greater. This is all you need to fix the bugs
in Jet (SP7 was a quickly replaced buggy version; SP8 was the
security patch for the Jet expression service; SP9 is, I believe, a
bug fix to that, with no significant bug fixes for the kinds of
issues that would be seen as bugs in Access).

So, I hardly ever see an unacceptable Jet version any more, since the
vast majority of desktops I work with are either constantly getting
patches from Windows update, or have at least been patched to the
needed Windows service pack versions.

However, it's very easy for the *Access* version to revert. And I
believe none of the release versions of Access are completely
reliable.

[David W. Fenton]

Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote in
news:12*************@corp.supernews.com:

David W. Fenton wrote:

>Tom van Stiphout <no*************@cox.netwrote in
news:6i********************************@4ax.com :

>>I know it will be a battle, but client should know that nowadays
you can't expect to have a functioning app without being current
on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for them. You just
don't want to chase down issues that have been fixed in a
service pack. As a matter of fact we write startup code to check
for minimum levels of Jet and Access, and refuse to run if not
found.

Since Win2K SP2 and WinXP SP1, the Jet 4 service pack by default
on Windows has been 6 or greater. This is all you need to fix the
bugs in Jet (SP7 was a quickly replaced buggy version; SP8 was
the security patch for the Jet expression service; SP9 is, I
believe, a bug fix to that, with no significant bug fixes for the
kinds of issues that would be seen as bugs in Access).

So, I hardly ever see an unacceptable Jet version any more, since
the vast majority of desktops I work with are either constantly
getting patches from Windows update, or have at least been
patched to the needed Windows service pack versions.

However, it's very easy for the *Access* version to revert. And I
believe none of the release versions of Access are completely
reliable.

I'm pretty sure the client has WinXP running, though I'm not
certain. Does that mean we're ok on Jet updates, or are you saying
that Access 2k itself can revert the Jet back to a prior, buggy
version? (I have to say I'm a bit shaky on this part of things.)

Since Win2K, the Jet 4 DLLs are part of the OS, because the OS uses
Jet for Active Directory. Thus, they are protected by the OS from
being rolled back to an earlier version.

My point was that once you've got Win2K SP2 or WinXP SP1 or later,
you can't revert to a buggy version of Jet.

Do you have any thoughts on why this Error 3197 is persisting?

I'd bet you're using a release version of Access, instead of one of
the patched versions.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[Jan]

David W. Fenton wrote:

Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote in
news:12*************@corp.supernews.com:

>David W. Fenton wrote:

>>Tom van Stiphout <no*************@cox.netwrote in
news:6i********************************@4ax.co m:

I know it will be a battle, but client should know that
nowadays you can't expect to have a functioning app without
being current on patches. AT LEAST install Jet 4.0 SP8 for
them. You just don't want to chase down issues that have been
fixed in a service pack. As a matter of fact we write startup
code to check for minimum levels of Jet and Access, and refuse
to run if not found.
Since Win2K SP2 and WinXP SP1, the Jet 4 service pack by default
on Windows has been 6 or greater. This is all you need to fix
the bugs in Jet (SP7 was a quickly replaced buggy version; SP8
was the security patch for the Jet expression service; SP9 is, I
believe, a bug fix to that, with no significant bug fixes for
the kinds of issues that would be seen as bugs in Access).

So, I hardly ever see an unacceptable Jet version any more, since
the vast majority of desktops I work with are either constantly
getting patches from Windows update, or have at least been
patched to the needed Windows service pack versions.

However, it's very easy for the *Access* version to revert. And I
believe none of the release versions of Access are completely
reliable.

I'm pretty sure the client has WinXP running, though I'm not
certain. Does that mean we're ok on Jet updates, or are you saying
that Access 2k itself can revert the Jet back to a prior, buggy
version? (I have to say I'm a bit shaky on this part of things.)

Since Win2K, the Jet 4 DLLs are part of the OS, because the OS uses
Jet for Active Directory. Thus, they are protected by the OS from
being rolled back to an earlier version.

My point was that once you've got Win2K SP2 or WinXP SP1 or later,
you can't revert to a buggy version of Jet.

>Do you have any thoughts on why this Error 3197 is persisting?

I'd bet you're using a release version of Access, instead of one of
the patched versions.

I looked at the version on Monday and I thought it said Access 2000 SP3,
but I can't remember for sure and my contact there isn't at her desk
right now. I'm going to have her try to get the IT folks to give them
patches (of course, with no internet access I don't know how that
happens, but I assume there's a way). She is at the mercy of the city's
IT department so these are not easy changes to make.

Please let me know if you have any other ideas on this, because the
client is running out of patience, and I'm pretty much out of ideas.

Thanks

Jan

[David W. Fenton]

Jan <ja*@dontspamme.comwrote in
news:12*************@corp.supernews.com:

I looked at the version on Monday and I thought it said Access
2000 SP3, but I can't remember for sure and my contact there isn't
at her desk right now. I'm going to have her try to get the IT
folks to give them patches (of course, with no internet access I
don't know how that happens, but I assume there's a way). She is
at the mercy of the city's IT department so these are not easy
changes to make.

Well, then there's the server and the network to look at.

This kind of thing is not simple to troubleshoot, unfortunately.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/