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Utility for Table Schemas

P: n/a
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.
Nov 2 '06 #1
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27 Replies


P: n/a
A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety of
needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom database
if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke Access
databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed by a
utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.

Nov 3 '06 #2

P: n/a
what do you want to do.. print schemas?
export schemas to word?

I would reccomend keeping an eye on www.gliffy.com it is a free online
visio-killer
Neil wrote:
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.
Nov 3 '06 #3

P: n/a
When I have seen questions concerning complex logic on newsgroups I have
wished for a sketchpad where I could draw a flowchart. Other times I have
longed to be able to share a relationship diagram. This looks like a
possible answer. I would like to hear more expert views on this.

<su******@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@i42g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
what do you want to do.. print schemas?
export schemas to word?

I would reccomend keeping an eye on www.gliffy.com it is a free online
visio-killer
Neil wrote:
>Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.


Nov 3 '06 #4

P: n/a
"David F Cox" <no****@please.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
When I have seen questions concerning complex logic on newsgroups I have
wished for a sketchpad where I could draw a flowchart. Other times I have
longed to be able to share a relationship diagram. This looks like a
possible answer. I would like to hear more expert views on this.
How would that be displayed in a non HTML reader like OE? I think I'd be
tempted to upload my sketch to a web space and provide a link to it.

Regards,
Keith.
www.keithwilby.com
Nov 3 '06 #5

P: n/a
Keith Wilby wrote:
How would that be displayed in a non HTML reader like OE?
Outlook Express is a non-HTML reader?

Nov 3 '06 #6

P: n/a
I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a graphical
interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing work for me.
I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up relationships, and
print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then create the tables
once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a utility exists.
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@SeeSig.Invalidwrote in message
news:O4**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety
of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed
by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.


Nov 6 '06 #7

P: n/a
Neil wrote:
I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a graphical
interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing work for me.
I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up relationships, and
print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then create the tables
once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a utility exists.
Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great
when conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark
ages, though.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Nov 6 '06 #8

P: n/a
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Keith Wilby wrote:
>How would that be displayed in a non HTML reader like OE?

Outlook Express is a non-HTML reader?
OK fair enough, but it's generally "accepted" practice to post in plain text
isn't it?
Nov 6 '06 #9

P: n/a
I believe Microsoft's Visio might do what you want.

"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertheriumwrote in message
news:ei**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
Neil wrote:
>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing
work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that
such a utility exists.

Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great when
conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark ages,
though.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

Nov 6 '06 #10

P: n/a
You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:MB****************@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing
work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then
create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a
utility exists.
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@SeeSig.Invalidwrote in message
news:O4**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety
of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed
by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.



Nov 6 '06 #11

P: n/a
Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out there
that does this.

"Karl" <so*****@sbcglobal.bizwrote in message
news:nM*****************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.ne t...
You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:MB****************@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing
work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that
such a utility exists.
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@SeeSig.Invalidwrote in message
news:O4**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety
of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
designed by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net...
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas.




Nov 6 '06 #12

P: n/a
With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by
knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the
other hand, are very organized. :-)

"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertheriumwrote in message
news:ei**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
Neil wrote:
>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing
work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that
such a utility exists.

Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great when
conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark ages,
though.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

Nov 6 '06 #13

P: n/a
Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?
"David F Cox" <no****@please.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I believe Microsoft's Visio might do what you want.

"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertheriumwrote in message
news:ei**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
>Neil wrote:
>>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the
designing work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually,
set up relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the
tables, and then create the tables once I'm done with all the design
work. Seems that such a utility exists.

Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great
when conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark
ages, though.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me


Nov 6 '06 #14

P: n/a
In article <xUO3h.3032$l25.2949
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, no****@nospam.net says...
Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?
I was also expecting to see lots of replies.
This is the only thing I have encountered that is free.
(Assuming it can still be downloaded.)
http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/
it is really for use with Mysql.

I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is
$229. http://www.datanamic.com/

There are many others and most are expensive.

Nov 7 '06 #15

P: n/a

Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote:
>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?
Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

Nov 7 '06 #16

P: n/a
Thanks for that!

"Michael Gramelspacher" <gr******@psci.netwrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
In article <xUO3h.3032$l25.2949
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, no****@nospam.net says...
>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I
use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
just
go straight to table design?
I was also expecting to see lots of replies.
This is the only thing I have encountered that is free.
(Assuming it can still be downloaded.)
http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/
it is really for use with Mysql.

I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is
$229. http://www.datanamic.com/

There are many others and most are expensive.

Nov 7 '06 #17

P: n/a
Thanks for the feedback. I can see the usefulness of that approach. I just
have an aversion to sketching things out manually, and prefer to do
everything on the PC. In the past, I've always just gone in and created
tables in Access, using it as a design tool of sorts. But this project I'm
starting is somewhat complex, and I wanted to lay it out first before going
to table design.

"Armen Stein" <Ar********@R3m00v3Th1s.gmail.comwrote in message
news:u3********************************@4ax.com...
>
Here's what we do:

At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the
high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We
indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a
few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes.

When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we
enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships
window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out
graphically.

We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another
poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote:
>>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or
just
go straight to table design?

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

Nov 7 '06 #18

P: n/a
Here's a nice list of such tools:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .
Nov 7 '06 #19

P: n/a
Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines to
create a simple ER diagrams.

In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the
objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint
document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can
find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html

--
--Roger Carlson
MS Access MVP
www.rogersaccesslibrary.com

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:CQ*****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out
there
that does this.

"Karl" <so*****@sbcglobal.bizwrote in message
news:nM*****************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.ne t...
You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:MB****************@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the
designing
>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems
that
>such a utility exists.
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@SeeSig.Invalidwrote in message
news:O4**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a
variety
>of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
designed by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility
for
>>developing table schemas.



Nov 7 '06 #20

P: n/a
rkc
Neil wrote:
Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use
this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most
people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just
go straight to table design?
mspaint.exe
Nov 7 '06 #21

P: n/a
Neil wrote:
With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by
knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the
other hand, are very organized. :-)
8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development
means I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop
bottles, sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8)
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Nov 8 '06 #22

P: n/a
Thanks!

"Paul Ibison" <Pa*********@Pygmalion.Comwrote in message
news:eV**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Here's a nice list of such tools:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm
Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and
Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used.
Cheers,
Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com .

Nov 9 '06 #23

P: n/a
Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)

"rkc" <rk*@rochester.yabba.dabba.do.rr.bombwrote in message
news:Lm******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Neil wrote:
>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy.

You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I
use this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do
most people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel?
Or just go straight to table design?

mspaint.exe

Nov 9 '06 #24

P: n/a
Well, there is that! :-)

I've recently come up with a method for house/office cleaning. It's called
the "One Bag At A Time" method. What you do is you take a large plastic
garbage bag, walk around, and fill it up with trash, unneeded mail, other
miscellaneous unneeded things, and you keep going until the bag is full.
Then you take the bag out and stop. Then another time, you do another bag.
And you keep doing this until things are clean. This way, it's not too much
at once. And once you have the bag in your hand, you're motivated to find
stuff to put in it! :-)

N

"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertheriumwrote in message
news:ei**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
Neil wrote:
>With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is
by knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files,
on the other hand, are very organized. :-)

8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development means
I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop bottles,
sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8)
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

Nov 9 '06 #25

P: n/a
Thanks.

"Roger Carlson" <NO*********************@gmail.comwrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines
to
create a simple ER diagrams.

In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the
objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint
document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can
find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html

--
--Roger Carlson
MS Access MVP
www.rogersaccesslibrary.com

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:CQ*****************@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out
there
>that does this.

"Karl" <so*****@sbcglobal.bizwrote in message
news:nM*****************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.n et...
You can do this in Excel.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:MB****************@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a
graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the
designing
>>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up
relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and
then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems
that
>>such a utility exists.
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@SeeSig.Invalidwrote in message
news:O4**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
A utility to develop table schemas?

If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a
variety
>>of needs, this might be useful:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm

In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom
database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke
Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be
designed by a utility.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam.netwrote in message
news:4j****************@newsread4.news.pas.earth link.net...
Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility
for
>>>developing table schemas.




Nov 9 '06 #26

P: n/a
rkc
Neil wrote:
Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)
Etch-A-Sketch
Nov 10 '06 #27

P: n/a
Even better! :-)

"rkc" <rk*@rochester.yabba.dabba.do.rr.bombwrote in message
news:RT******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Neil wrote:
>Yeah; or I could just use crayons. ;-)

Etch-A-Sketch

Nov 10 '06 #28

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