Client Wants Design Access To Database

[Wayne]

I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

[microb0x]

Why not guide the client into creating their own access file, and link
to the tables containing the data. Then they could use their own
access file to create reports as they see fit.


Wayne wrote:

I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

[Albert D. Kallal]

If they can development, and build forms, then what did they need you for?

I been doing this 20 years, and every so often we come across a post about
someone who has a customer that needs to build their own reports.

I can tell you 99 out of 100 times, this types environments are complete and
utter failure.

If you must, just provide them with a extra mdb that has some linked tables
to your mdb.

I mean, you can't possibility be developing and deploying software now
without a split system. so, just provide a mdb with some reports that they
can modify to their needs. That way, when you send them bug fixes, and
updates to their software, then their back end data file will not be
touched, and the reports that they made also will not be lost when you send
them a new update of you software.

In 20 years of development software, and consulting, I NEVER EVER had one
client request that they want to be able to build their own reports. If they
are capable of ding that, then they don't need me.

You most certainly do need to provide some parameter driven reports. Here is
some screen shots of what I mean:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKal.../ridesrpt.html

So, you most certainly do, and can provide reports that give you date
ranges, and even particular groupings by a city, or sales rep. If you give
them the options they need for a report, then you will NOT receive any
requests for changes.

The issue of you going out of business, and that of changing reports is
COMPLETELY SEPARATE. If they need a copy of the source mdb file, then make
provision for them to have this source if the need arises. However, that has
absolute nothing to do with the failure to provide a nice set of reports
that they need....

--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com

[Albert D. Kallal]

By the way, I am a host of Joel on software, and we had a discussion on this
issue here:

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/de...gn.4.389990.10

So, you could perhaps given them a copy of crystal, or as mentioned,
consider given them a mdb with linked tables to the back end data...

--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pl*****************@msn.com

[Lyle Fairfield]

Wayne wrote:

I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I give my clients everything, code and a paper copy of all objects as
text included included.

My agreement with them stipulates that they can do whatever they like
with the code, forms etc except that I continue to hold the rights to
use any of those things or any concept underlying them, and that they
may not resell, lend or give away the application.

I do this because I do not care to waste my time worrying about
whether, how or if someone is cheating me or misusing me. I also feel
that when I give the carte blanche permissions I am relieved of much of
the responsibility when things go wrong because someone does something
stupid. And I am quite confident that if someone takes my wonderful
idea as his/her own it's OK because I am sure I will have a
wonderfuller idea tomorrow.

I've never been burned by this and generally my clients hire me to make
repairs or modifications.

Almost all the real people I meet in business are very honest and fair;
I'm not so sure about all of those who hang around the net, but maybe
they would seem to be as well, if I really knew them.

[Tom van Stiphout]

On 10 Oct 2006 17:07:28 -0700, "Lyle Fairfield"
<ly***********@aim.comwrote:

We do the same thing: once you pay the bills, the source code is
yours. We have a few clients that maintain the database along the
lines the OP outlines. More power to them.
Once they come back to us for more difficult changes, we just ask for
their MDB and take it from there. If we see a problem we can't live
with, we issue a change order to correct it.
I don't even WANT the responsibility of having to reproduce a client's
source code after many years.

-Tom.

>Wayne wrote:

>I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I give my clients everything, code and a paper copy of all objects as
text included included.

My agreement with them stipulates that they can do whatever they like
with the code, forms etc except that I continue to hold the rights to
use any of those things or any concept underlying them, and that they
may not resell, lend or give away the application.

I do this because I do not care to waste my time worrying about
whether, how or if someone is cheating me or misusing me. I also feel
that when I give the carte blanche permissions I am relieved of much of
the responsibility when things go wrong because someone does something
stupid. And I am quite confident that if someone takes my wonderful
idea as his/her own it's OK because I am sure I will have a
wonderfuller idea tomorrow.

I've never been burned by this and generally my clients hire me to make
repairs or modifications.

Almost all the real people I meet in business are very honest and fair;
I'm not so sure about all of those who hang around the net, but maybe
they would seem to be as well, if I really knew them.

[Wayne]

Thanks for the feedback folks. You've given me plenty of food for
thought.

[Arno R]

"Wayne" <cq*******@volcanomail.comschreef in bericht news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...

>I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I also have a major client that 'wants' the source-code.
So they are getting an mdb from me, but they still ask me for major mods.
Very simple mods they make themselves and they communicate this with me.
I also see that 'my' code is being used in other mdb's they create, but I don't mind.
This is still my major client !

Most other clients are getting mde's.
But for these mde-clients I am also thinking the other way around.
FYI: I am a one-person business. No other employee's involved.
==What if I get an accident or simply die in a car-crash or something??
Some apps are business-critical so the clients *must* be able to continue with the app.

I am thinking of a way to provide them with the source (the mdb's) only just in case something happens to me.
I feel kind of responsible to do so.

Any thoughts about this ??

Arno R

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:38:39 +0200, "Arno R"
<ar***********@tiscali.nlwrote:

After each major milestone, send them a CD with the source code.
-Tom.

>
"Wayne" <cq*******@volcanomail.comschreef in bericht news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...

>>I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I also have a major client that 'wants' the source-code.
So they are getting an mdb from me, but they still ask me for major mods.
Very simple mods they make themselves and they communicate this with me.
I also see that 'my' code is being used in other mdb's they create, but I don't mind.
This is still my major client !

Most other clients are getting mde's.
But for these mde-clients I am also thinking the other way around.
FYI: I am a one-person business. No other employee's involved.
==What if I get an accident or simply die in a car-crash or something??
Some apps are business-critical so the clients *must* be able to continue with the app.

I am thinking of a way to provide them with the source (the mdb's) only just in case something happens to me.
I feel kind of responsible to do so.

Any thoughts about this ??

Arno R

[Keith Wilby]

"Wayne" <cq*******@volcanomail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...

>I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I think you have to weigh up how much money you'd lose by digging your heels
in against how much you'd lose by giving them access (risk of plagiarism).
In my experience, if you're designing a bespoke application then, by it's
very nature it wouldn't be of much use in another scenario so I'd say that
risk was low. You also give the client a "feel good" factor by being open
with them.

Regards,
Keith.
www.keithwilby.com

[Gus]

As I client who has always had a copy of MY software and made MY own
mods as well as having major mods written for ME by the professionals I
would be disturbed to deal with a programmer who thought ME having
access to MY OWN CODE was an issue.

gus

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***

[Larry Linson]

"Gus" wrote

As I client who has always had a copy of MY software and made MY own
mods as well as having major mods written for ME by the professionals I
would be disturbed to deal with a programmer who thought ME having
access to MY OWN CODE was an issue.

So you have the source code to Windows, Word, Excel, and Access? I wonder
how you negotiated that.

When I create a "bespoke system" for a particular client, they get the
source under a specific license, but it is NOT, repeat NOT, "the client's
code" even though they paid to have it developed. Software developed by
someone else is not YOUR code unless the working arrangement was "work done
for hire" which is NOT the case by default.

My clients know, understand, and are happy with the situation -- they also
know that I charge by the hour for "cleaning up their messes" and that if
they intend to modify what I've done for them, they had better make a backup
copy before they make any modifications.

Many of us have turned down work because the client insisted on "work done
for hire" and expected complete ownership, including any new techniques and
approaches we used.

But for "doing their own reports," I often provide them with a separate
database, linked to the back end datastore that I _do not_ maintain, into
which they can put all the reports they want to create. And, although that
is covered by my contractual license agreement, because there was/is
essentially nothing in that DB, I consider it to be entirely theirs.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

Larry Linson wrote:

Software developed by
someone else is not YOUR code unless the working arrangement was "work done
for hire" which is NOT the case by default.

And if Gus wants to claim it was "work done for hire" then he needed to hire
these professionals as employees and pay the employer's half of Social
Security taxes on the amount his employees earned. The code is owned by the
employer in this case.

If Gus hired a consultant, the consultant and he would have to sign a
contract relinquishing the consultant's rights to the code. Gus would own
the code in this case. In all other cases, the code is owned by the
consultant or his/her estate until ownership is transferred to another legal
entity (person, corporation, etc.)

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[RLN]

>My agreement with them stipulates that they can do whatever they like with the code, forms etc except that I continue to hold the rights to use any of those things or any concept underlying them, and that they may not resell, lend or give away the application.<<

Lyle,
I am looking for a good website that would have a template of this type
of agreement, because I am looking to go out on my own soon.

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

Wayne wrote:

I have a potential client who has requested design access to the
prospective database so that they can change reports if and when
required. Their reasons for this are:

1. They don't want to be locked into a situation where it will cost
them money every time management wants a report changed and

2. They are concerned that they will be locked into relying on one
person for any future changes that may be required, especially if that
person has gone out of business etc.

I have always distributed my projects as mde files for obvious reasons.
This request is new to me and I am interested if other developers have
had similar requests. Do you often give the client design access? It
seems like a bad idea to me, but I don't want to lose the work.

Any help or comments are appreciated.

I give my clients everything, code and a paper copy of all objects as
text included included.

My agreement with them stipulates that they can do whatever they like
with the code, forms etc except that I continue to hold the rights to
use any of those things or any concept underlying them, and that they
may not resell, lend or give away the application.

I do this because I do not care to waste my time worrying about
whether, how or if someone is cheating me or misusing me. I also feel
that when I give the carte blanche permissions I am relieved of much of
the responsibility when things go wrong because someone does something
stupid. And I am quite confident that if someone takes my wonderful
idea as his/her own it's OK because I am sure I will have a
wonderfuller idea tomorrow.

I've never been burned by this and generally my clients hire me to make
repairs or modifications.

Almost all the real people I meet in business are very honest and fair;
I'm not so sure about all of those who hang around the net, but maybe
they would seem to be as well, if I really knew them.

[David W. Fenton]

Gus <gu*********@hotmail.comwrote in
news:45*********************@news.qwest.net:

As I client who has always had a copy of MY software and made MY
own mods as well as having major mods written for ME by the
professionals I would be disturbed to deal with a programmer who
thought ME having access to MY OWN CODE was an issue.

But the default for my contracts with clients is that it *isn't*
their code -- they have to pay extra to get ownership of the code I
write.

This subject has been discussed quite often in this newsgroup. You
might do well to investigate it in Google Groups to get a better
feel for the issues.

I do have clients who make mods to their databases, but only by
creating their own queries and modifying some forms and reports
slightly. I don't lock them out of my code because they are
completely clueless about that -- they are just point-and-click
Access users.

As long as I'm on an hourly basis in the further work I do for them,
there's no problem. But I do make clear that I can't provide any
form of support contract for an application that has been altered by
someone other than me.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[Lyle Fairfield]

RLN wrote:

My agreement with them stipulates that they can do whatever they like with the code, forms etc except that I continue to hold the rights to use any of those things or any concept underlying them, and that they may not resell, lend or give away the application.<<

Lyle,
I am looking for a good website that would have a template of this type
of agreement, because I am looking to go out on my own soon.

My agreements are usually one or two simple pages. Lawyers have been
known to sigh and roll their eyes when they see them so I think they
would not be of much use as a template. Maybe a Google search will help.

[Wild Bill]

Just a functionality answer here:

I have the MDE created with it linked to a tables only mdb.

In a form I have three cmd's each launching a different database each
linked to the tables database.

So two power users get their own mdb "playgrounds"
The rest get one called user.mdb
Here is the code I used (sans event call and error trapping) :

stAppName = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office11\MSACCESS.EXE "
& "S:\Shared\Access\User.mdb"
Call Shell(stAppName, 1)

Even if we were to use just an MDB for the front end, there are far too
many queries to let a user near them.

Cheers,
WB

[David W. Fenton]

"Wild Bill" <Ca*********@gmail.comwrote in
news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com:

Just a functionality answer here:

I have the MDE created with it linked to a tables only mdb.

In a form I have three cmd's each launching a different database
each linked to the tables database.

So two power users get their own mdb "playgrounds"
The rest get one called user.mdb

Here is the code I used (sans event call and error trapping) :

stAppName = "C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Office\Office11\MSACCESS.EXE "
& "S:\Shared\Access\User.mdb"
Call Shell(stAppName, 1)

Even if we were to use just an MDB for the front end, there are
far too many queries to let a user near them.

Do you have a question?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[David W. Fenton]

"Wild Bill" <Ca*********@gmail.comwrote in
news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com:

Even if we were to use just an MDB for the front end, there are
far too many queries to let a user near them.

Er, an MDE does not protect queries, so the end user should still be
able to muck around with the queries in your MDE if they know how to
get to the database window.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/