Populating a table with federal holidays (USA)

[MLH]

http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2008.asp
Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following public holidays
for Federal employees. Please note that most Federal employees work
on a Monday through Friday schedule. For these employees, when a
holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday
usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or
Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).

Am still looking for an existing solution to populating tblHolidays
with federal holidays for a given year. The sites above probably
generate their data with an algorithm which could be utilized to
develop a reliable VBA procedure to do it.

Closest thing I've found is a thread begun Tues, Mar 20 2001 12:42 pm
by Pedro Gil entitled "Database Schema to store holidays". Hoping
someone's done it so I won't have to. I'm not even sure I can.

¿ Suggestions ?

[rquintal]

MLH wrote:

http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2008.asp
Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following public holidays
for Federal employees. Please note that most Federal employees work
on a Monday through Friday schedule. For these employees, when a
holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday
usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or
Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).

Am still looking for an existing solution to populating tblHolidays
with federal holidays for a given year. The sites above probably
generate their data with an algorithm which could be utilized to
develop a reliable VBA procedure to do it.

Closest thing I've found is a thread begun Tues, Mar 20 2001 12:42 pm
by Pedro Gil entitled "Database Schema to store holidays". Hoping
someone's done it so I won't have to. I'm not even sure I can.

¿ Suggestions ?

You can use algorithms to determine each holiday, adjusting for
weekends, etc.
However, it's just not worth the effort, build a screen that lets you
enter the holiday dates by cutting and pasting from your site is much
faster, and doesn't need to be done very often.

[MLH]

Its all about the fishing, isn't it. You see, I like
king and spanish mackerel fishing more than
I like writing code. Snook ain't half bad either.
Yeah. I could do it. My guess is its been done
already and posted somewhere along the way.

So, in between future angling excursions, I will
look for it and ask for it (Matthew 7:7)

[Kc-Mass]

Try This. It lists the Holiday days off for a given year. You could easily
stick the results in a table, array or whatever.

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Sub SetHoliday_DayOff()
Dim NewYearDO As Date
Dim MLKDO As Date
Dim WashBirthDO As Date
Dim MemorDayDO As Date
Dim July4DO As Date
Dim LaborDO As Date
Dim ColumbusDO As Date
Dim VeteranDO As Date
Dim ThanksDO As Date
Dim ChristmasDO As Date
Dim strYear As String
Dim TestDOW As Integer

strYear = "2006"
'* Fix New Year's Day Off
NewYearDO = CDate("1/1/" & strYear)
NewYearDO = NotOnWeekend(NewYearDO)

'* Fix 4th of July Day Off
July4DO = CDate("7/4/" & strYear)
July4DO = NotOnWeekend(July4DO)

'* Fix Veteran's Day Off
VeteranDO = CDate("11/11/" & strYear)
VeteranDO = NotOnWeekend(VeteranDO)

'* Fix Christmas Day Off
ChristmasDO = CDate("12/25/" & strYear)
ChristmasDO = NotOnWeekend(ChristmasDO)

'* Fix MartinLutherKing Day Off
MLKDO = CDate("1/15/" & strYear)
MLKDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(MLKDO, 2)

'* Fix Washington's Birthday Day Off
WashBirthDO = CDate("2/15/" & strYear)
WashBirthDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(WashBirthDO, 2)

'* Fix Memorial Day Day Off
MemorDayDO = CDate("5/26/" & strYear)
MemorDayDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(MemorDayDO, 2)

'* Fix Labor Day Day Off
LaborDO = CDate("9/1/" & strYear)
LaborDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(LaborDO, 2)

'* Fix Columbus Day Off
ColumbusDO = CDate("10/8/" & strYear)
ColumbusDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(ColumbusDO, 2)

'* Fix Thanksgiving Day Off
ThanksDO = CDate("11/22/" & strYear)
ThanksDO = ParticularDayOfWeek(ThanksDO, 5)
Debug.Print "NewYears Day Off", NewYearDO, DatePart("W", NewYearDO)
Debug.Print "MLK Day Off ", MLKDO, DatePart("w", MLKDO)
Debug.Print "Washington's BDay Day Off", WashBirthDO, DatePart("W",
WashBirthDO)
Debug.Print "MemorialDay Day Off", MemorDayDO, DatePart("W", MemorDayDO)
Debug.Print "July4 Day Off ", July4DO, DatePart("W", July4DO)
Debug.Print "LaborDay Day Off", LaborDO, DatePart("W", LaborDO)
Debug.Print "Columbus Day Day Off", ColumbusDO, DatePart("W",
ColumbusDO)
Debug.Print "Veteran's Day Day Off", VeteranDO, DatePart("W", VeteranDO)
Debug.Print "Thanksgiving Day Off", ThanksDO, DatePart("W", ThanksDO)
Debug.Print "Christmas Day Off", ChristmasDO, DatePart("W", ChristmasDO)

End Sub

Function NotOnWeekend(dtDateToMove)
Dim intDayofWeek As Integer
intDayofWeek = DatePart("W", dtDateToMove)
If intDayofWeek = 1 Then
dtDateToMove = dtDateToMove + 1
End If
If intDayofWeek = 7 Then
dtDateToMove = dtDateToMove - 1
End If
NotOnWeekend = dtDateToMove
End Function

Function ParticularDayOfWeek(dtDateToMove, intDOWToLandOn)
Do While DatePart("W", dtDateToMove) <intDOWToLandOn
dtDateToMove = dtDateToMove + 1
Loop
ParticularDayOfWeek = dtDateToMove
End Function


"MLH" <CR**@NorthState.netwrote in message
news:ck********************************@4ax.com...

http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2008.asp
Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following public holidays
for Federal employees. Please note that most Federal employees work
on a Monday through Friday schedule. For these employees, when a
holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday
usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or
Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).

Am still looking for an existing solution to populating tblHolidays
with federal holidays for a given year. The sites above probably
generate their data with an algorithm which could be utilized to
develop a reliable VBA procedure to do it.

Closest thing I've found is a thread begun Tues, Mar 20 2001 12:42 pm
by Pedro Gil entitled "Database Schema to store holidays". Hoping
someone's done it so I won't have to. I'm not even sure I can.

¿ Suggestions ?

[CDMAPoster]

MLH wrote:

http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2008.asp
Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following public holidays
for Federal employees. Please note that most Federal employees work
on a Monday through Friday schedule. For these employees, when a
holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday
usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or
Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).

Am still looking for an existing solution to populating tblHolidays
with federal holidays for a given year. The sites above probably
generate their data with an algorithm which could be utilized to
develop a reliable VBA procedure to do it.

Closest thing I've found is a thread begun Tues, Mar 20 2001 12:42 pm
by Pedro Gil entitled "Database Schema to store holidays". Hoping
someone's done it so I won't have to. I'm not even sure I can.

¿ Suggestions ?

Thanks for the link. I notice that when January 1 falls on a Saturday,
the observed holiday is moved back to Friday, even if that puts it into
the prior year. Sometime this week I will change
DirectDateFunctions.mdb by replacing:

'---------
Public Function GetNewYearsObserved(dtInYear As Date) As Date
Dim dtTemp As Date

dtTemp = DateSerial(Year(dtInYear), 1, 1)
If WeekDay(dtTemp) = 7 Then dtTemp = DateAdd("d", 2, dtTemp)
If WeekDay(dtTemp) = 1 Then dtTemp = DateAdd("d", 1, dtTemp)
GetNewYearsObserved = dtTemp
End Function
'---------

with

'---------
Public Function GetNewYearsObserved(dtInYear As Date) As Date
Dim dtTemp As Date

dtTemp = DateSerial(Year(dtInYear), 1, 1)
If WeekDay(dtTemp) = 7 Then dtTemp = DateAdd("d", -1, dtTemp)
If WeekDay(dtTemp) = 1 Then dtTemp = DateAdd("d", 1, dtTemp)
GetNewYearsObserved = dtTemp
End Function
'---------
Here's a way to generate a table of observed federal holidays using the
code from DirectDateFunctions.mdb once that change is made:

'Code behind form:
Private Sub cmdHolidayTable_Click()
Const START_YEAR = 2006
Const END_YEAR = 2022
Const NUM_HOLIDAYS = 10
Dim lngY As Long
Dim HolidayDate(END_YEAR - START_YEAR, NUM_HOLIDAYS) As Date
Dim HolidayName(NUM_HOLIDAYS) As String

HolidayName(0) = ""
HolidayName(1) = "New Year's Day (Observed)"
HolidayName(2) = "Martin Luther King Jr.'s Birthday"
HolidayName(3) = "President's Day"
HolidayName(4) = "Independence Day (Observed)"
HolidayName(5) = "Memorial Day"
HolidayName(6) = "Labor Day"
HolidayName(7) = "Columbus' Day"
HolidayName(8) = "Veteran's Day (Observed)"
HolidayName(9) = "Thanksgiving Day"
HolidayName(10) = "Christmas Day (Observed)"
For lngY = START_YEAR To END_YEAR
dtTest = DateSerial(lngY, 1, 1)
HolidateDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 1) = GetNewYearsObserved(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 2) = GetMartinLutherKing(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 3) = GetPresidents(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 4) = GetIndependenceObserved(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 5) = GetMemorial(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 6) = GetLabor(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 7) = GetColumbus(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 8) = GetVeteransObserved(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 9) = GetThanksgiving(dtTest)
HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, 10) = GetChristmasObserved(dtTest)
Next lngY
For lngY = START_YEAR To END_YEAR
Call AppendToHolidayTable(HolidayDate(lngY - START_YEAR, lngI),
HolidayName(lngI))
Next lngY
End Sub

Private Sub AppendToHolidayTable(dtHoliday As Date, strHolidayName As
String)
'Put some code here to append a record to a Holiday Table
End Sub
'EndCode

This (air) code is meant as an outline for a plan to append holidays to
a holiday table so use whatever code/SQL fits your style when appending
to the table. I no longer use a holiday table. Please let me know if
you find any differences between announced federal holidays and dates
produced by these functions. Note that these functions don't handle
the case where a holiday is moved by legislative fiat from Thursday to
Friday or from Tuesday to Monday. Note that since New Year's Day can
move back to the previous year, you should add a day inside the Year()
function when querying for all the holidays in a given year.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[Lyle Fairfield]

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

I think you forgot the holidays when MLH makes some idiotic posts to
CDMA in the morning, goes fishing and returns in the evening to see how
many code fish have "bit", here. (Cod-e fish are like e-commerce; they
are also known as suckers.)

What's that? That's EVERY day? Well even MLH should be able to write
code for that ... maybe ... I guess ... no, Really!.

[pietlinden]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

I think you forgot the holidays when MLH makes some idiotic posts to
CDMA in the morning, goes fishing and returns in the evening to see how
many code fish have "bit", here. (Cod-e fish are like e-commerce; they
are also known as suckers.)

What's that? That's EVERY day? Well even MLH should be able to write
code for that ... maybe ... I guess ... no, Really!.

Lyle,
you're forgetting Terry's MLH object model. It doesn't work that way.
See the .PostToNewsgroup method. You'll notice a lack of the following
methods:
..Think
..Research(subject)
..TestOptions()

He seems to think that those things are everyone else's job. No wonder
he still hasn't quite mastered Access97... it's only been around for
about 10 years... what's the hurry?

[CDMAPoster]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

I think you forgot the holidays when MLH makes some idiotic posts to
CDMA in the morning, goes fishing and returns in the evening to see how
many code fish have "bit", here. (Cod-e fish are like e-commerce; they
are also known as suckers.)

You're callin' me a sucka because I answered his post? You also think
I gave him too much code? It's time for a couple of professional
insults (courtesy of Professional insulter Christoff). :-) :-) I
wouldn't swallow MLH's line if I were a Welshman, you coated it in pig
guts and called it sausage. The extra code is necessary because MLH is
not smart enough to read the help file. :-) :-) I won't say he's slow,
but if car speed correlated with brain speed he'd have to remove the
training wheels to un-pimp his ride. Just don't call me a Neanderthal,
Lyle. :-) :-) People would believe you because they figure you've
actually known a few.

>
What's that? That's EVERY day? Well even MLH should be able to write
code for that ... maybe ... I guess ... no, Really!.

He needs Help. Really :-). Maybe all three meanings.

Public Function IsMLHHoliday(dtIn As Date) As Boolean
IsMLHHoliday = True
End Function

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[MLH]

Thanks much for a great solution!
I think the usefulness of this to large
number of developers warrants it
being posted for all. Hats off 2 U.

[CDMAPoster]

MLH wrote:

Thanks much for a great solution!
I think the usefulness of this to large
number of developers warrants it
being posted for all. Hats off 2 U.

If I understand the code correctly, I think I see a problem with
Memorial Day in 2009. I.e., 5/25/09.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[MLH]

That would be 'bout right. I think
your first pass calc'd it at 6/1 or
something like that. I noticed the
discrepancy browsing
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2009.asp

Was quite easy to mod your code
to calc last "Wednesday" (or whatever)
in the month. Thx again.

[MLH]

And likewise, a problem with Inauguration Day
in 2000, '04, '08, '12...

Of course, only applicable to greater metropolitan DC area.

[CDMAPoster]

MLH wrote:

That would be 'bout right. I think
your first pass calc'd it at 6/1 or
something like that. I noticed the
discrepancy browsing
http://www.opm.gov/Fedhol/2009.asp

Was quite easy to mod your code
to calc last "Wednesday" (or whatever)
in the month. Thx again.

I want to make sure you don't confuse the solution posted by KCMass
with mine. The DirectDateFunctions module I wrote can be found in the
links from this post:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....4ae77b88ce9f93

I need to make sure that the possibility of New Year's Day jumping to
the previous year doesn't break the BusinessDateAdd or
CountBusinessDays functions, or any other functions for that matter.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[pietlinden]

Public Function IsMLHHoliday(dtIn As Date) As Boolean

IsMLHHoliday = True
End Function

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

hey, maybe you should submit that to Terry and see if he'll include it
in his MLH object model!

[CDMAPoster]

pi********@hotmail.com wrote:

Public Function IsMLHHoliday(dtIn As Date) As Boolean
IsMLHHoliday = True
End Function

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

hey, maybe you should submit that to Terry and see if he'll include it
in his MLH object model!

I've picked on MLH and Lyle enough already. With the exception of a
few doozy posts, I enjoy reading Lyle's posts immensely. I don't mind
MLH's questions, but I'm still unable to determine why he/she doesn't
Google for previous answers. Shouldn't impatience win out over
laziness? MLH seems not to care too much about what others think
regarding that habit. I'm going to try to refrain from verbal sparring
and take a more positive approach of polite encouragement to read the
help file before posting.

Males seem to keep a mental record of what percentage of the time
people are right and wrong. (Thats why trivia is so important when
dealing with men.) I think if we don't concentrate so much on the
score and don't treat this newsgroup like a chess game, we can
transform the environment here into something even more delightful.
And ladies, always check your facts before stating something to a man
or to men. If you're right a higher percentage of the time than they
are, it'll shock them into respect. That is, unless your opinions are
risible. That's enough advice. I'm beginning to sound like Granny
Spitz :-)!

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

Bridge is about personality, not statistics. -- Raymond Avery

[MLH]

Preciat the clarity there, James. I was,
of course, responding to kcmass on
that. Just click'd the wrong post. Am
making more misclicks these days.

[Kc-Mass]

You are right. There was a message correcting the seed for Memorial Day
----- Original Message -----
From: "Connearney" <co********@comcast.net>
To: "MLH" <CR**@NorthState.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Populating a table with federal holidays (USA)

In respect to program I just sent you , you will need to change
initialization of MemorDayDO to

"MemorDayDO = CDate("5/24/" & strYear)"

I had no idea there would be any interest in this. Someone else commented
that it also does not treat Inaugural day, but that is only in DC and only
every four years and Fed offices in DC get lots of Special Days off - the
big 7 mtgs, the world bank meetings, days with heavy rain. For DC you
really need a special calendar.


<CD********@FortuneJames.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

MLH wrote:

>Thanks much for a great solution!
I think the usefulness of this to large
number of developers warrants it
being posted for all. Hats off 2 U.

If I understand the code correctly, I think I see a problem with
Memorial Day in 2009. I.e., 5/25/09.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[CDMAPoster]

Kc-Mass wrote:

You are right. There was a message correcting the seed for Memorial Day
----- Original Message -----
From: "Connearney" <co********@comcast.net>
To: "MLH" <CR**@NorthState.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Populating a table with federal holidays (USA)

In respect to program I just sent you , you will need to change
initialization of MemorDayDO to

"MemorDayDO = CDate("5/24/" & strYear)"

I had no idea there would be any interest in this. Someone else commented
that it also does not treat Inaugural day, but that is only in DC and only
every four years and Fed offices in DC get lots of Special Days off - the
big 7 mtgs, the world bank meetings, days with heavy rain. For DC you
really need a special calendar.

I think using 5/24 for the initialization will cause a problem in 2010
when Memorial Day is on the 31st because the code will see that 5/24 is
on a Monday and stop. Try 5/25.

There is one nice feature of the solution Connearney emailed. In
engineering, closed-form solutions are usually better than iterative or
series solutions because they allow you to understand the underlying
physics better. My solution aims for a single calculation that does
not require zeroing in on the solution. The tradeoff for getting that
is that some of the intuition becomes harder to see. The solution
emailed by Connearney, while involving interation, preserves that
intuition in spite of the iteration. I'm at a loss as to why Kc-Mass
didn't mention earlier that Connearney emailed (authored?) the code
that was posted. I prefer discussing code with the original author
whenever possible :-). Holidays that are caused by excessive rain
would force me to use a combination of code and a table of dates.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[Kc-Mass]

Kc-Mass and Connearney are one and the same.

<CD********@FortuneJames.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@c28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

Kc-Mass wrote:

>You are right. There was a message correcting the seed for Memorial Day
----- Original Message -----
From: "Connearney" <co********@comcast.net>
To: "MLH" <CR**@NorthState.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Populating a table with federal holidays (USA)

In respect to program I just sent you , you will need to change
initialization of MemorDayDO to

"MemorDayDO = CDate("5/24/" & strYear)"

I had no idea there would be any interest in this. Someone else
commented
that it also does not treat Inaugural day, but that is only in DC and
only
every four years and Fed offices in DC get lots of Special Days off - the
big 7 mtgs, the world bank meetings, days with heavy rain. For DC you
really need a special calendar.

I think using 5/24 for the initialization will cause a problem in 2010
when Memorial Day is on the 31st because the code will see that 5/24 is
on a Monday and stop. Try 5/25.

There is one nice feature of the solution Connearney emailed. In
engineering, closed-form solutions are usually better than iterative or
series solutions because they allow you to understand the underlying
physics better. My solution aims for a single calculation that does
not require zeroing in on the solution. The tradeoff for getting that
is that some of the intuition becomes harder to see. The solution
emailed by Connearney, while involving interation, preserves that
intuition in spite of the iteration. I'm at a loss as to why Kc-Mass
didn't mention earlier that Connearney emailed (authored?) the code
that was posted. I prefer discussing code with the original author
whenever possible :-). Holidays that are caused by excessive rain
would force me to use a combination of code and a table of dates.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[CDMAPoster]

Kc-Mass wrote:

Kc-Mass and Connearney are one and the same.

Then please explain who sent whom the email message advocating 5/24.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[CDMAPoster]

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

Kc-Mass wrote:

Kc-Mass and Connearney are one and the same.

Then please explain who sent whom the email message advocating 5/24.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

I see what happened now.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

That's enough advice. I'm beginning to sound like Granny
Spitz :-)!

Oh, my! I thought the only *ought to* advice I've given was how to turn an
insincere apology into a sincere one.

And ladies, always check your facts before stating something to a man
or to men. If you're right a higher percentage of the time than they
are, it'll shock them into respect.

I've seen men with their jaws dropped to the floor or the daylights scared
out of them, but I've never seen men shocked into respect for a lady who
consistently gives the right answers. Men save their respect for the ladies
with wealth and power and the ladies who are easy on the eyes, and not
necessarily in that order. ; )

I don't mind
MLH's questions, but I'm still unable to determine why he/she doesn't
Google for previous answers. Shouldn't impatience win out over
laziness? MLH seems not to care too much about what others think
regarding that habit.

Have you Googled for topics you didn't know much about? It's daunting for
most people. There are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of threads, often with
different approaches to solve similar problems. Which ones are the best? To
paraphrase Lyle, of the people who answer questions in the newsgroups, some
are hot, and some are not. Some of those answers will fire up your engine
with rocket fuel. Others will set your hair on fire. Mike wants to get the
opinions of those he knows he can trust. That's why he keeps coming back.
The posters in CDMA *get it,* whereas most people don't.

So the CDMA posters can take that as a compliment or take the opportunity to
poke fun at Mike. Before we hit that Send button, maybe we should heed the
advice, "If you haven't got anything good to say, it's better not to say
anything at all." And then maybe before Mike hits that Send button he'll
heed the advice, "What does the help file and Google say?"

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[Lyle Fairfield]

"Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com" <u26473@uwewrote in
news:67257ee99c79c@uwe:

I've seen men with their jaws dropped to the floor or the daylights
scared out of them, but I've never seen men shocked into respect for a
lady who consistently gives the right answers. Men save their respect
for the ladies with wealth and power and the ladies who are easy on
the eyes, and not necessarily in that order.

My recollection is that you have given some "right" answers. Please,
clearly identify your sex so that I can withdraw my respect if you are
female. I don't want to be guilty of misplaced respect.

So the CDMA posters can take that as a compliment or take the
opportunity to poke fun at Mike. Before we hit that Send button,
maybe we should heed the advice, "If you haven't got anything good to
say, it's better not to say anything at all."

Even Jesus drove the animals of the money changers from the temple.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

My recollection is that you have given some "right" answers. Please,
clearly identify your sex so that I can withdraw my respect if you are
female. I don't want to be guilty of misplaced respect.

Hold your horses! I *am* a mature woman, but who says I'm not easy on the
eyes or don't have wealth and power?

Even Jesus drove the animals of the money changers from the temple.

If you drive Mike from the temple, he'll just come back under a new name. PC
Datasheet did it all the time. How many times was he caught wearing sheep's
clothing? Rarely. He's probably still posting questions under an alias.
Make that *aliases.* Or he's got someone else posting questions for him.
Whose posts have increased by about 2 questions a week since shortly after
the war on PC Datasheet's advertising began?

P.S. Even if I can't earn your respect, I enjoy reading your posts, Lyle.
At least those I understand. I've learned a lot from your posts. You have
tremendous insight into computers, Access, and *seeing* what others are about.
You can use your talents for the good of all.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[Gord]

>So the CDMA posters can take that as a compliment or take the

>opportunity to poke fun

....and it all depends on the underlying message of the question, which
can range from...

"I am struggling with a problem and would appreciate some help. I have
searched the product documentation, the web, and relevant Usenet
postings, but I have not found an answer. I have tried the following
approaches myself, but so far I have been unsuccessful."

....to...

"HELP!!! URGENT!!!!!!!! I am lazy (and/or stupid) and can't be bothered
to figure this out for myself, so I want you to solve my problem for
me. Do it right now, and do it for free. My time is extremely valuable
and yours is not, so if I have not explained the problem adequately
just post all possible solutions along with their assumptions. I
reserve the right to divulge additional important details in subsequent
postings and will expect you to revise your answers accordingly."

>Mike wants to get the opinions of those he knows he can trust.
That's why he keeps coming back.

IMO, some posters "keep coming back" mainly because they know that CDMA
has a rather large following. So, even if they are ignored by several
of the more dedicated contributors there's still a good chance that
somebody else will come along and do their thinking for them.

Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com wrote:

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

That's enough advice. I'm beginning to sound like Granny
Spitz :-)!

Oh, my! I thought the only *ought to* advice I've given was how to turn an
insincere apology into a sincere one.

And ladies, always check your facts before stating something to a man
or to men. If you're right a higher percentage of the time than they
are, it'll shock them into respect.

I've seen men with their jaws dropped to the floor or the daylights scared
out of them, but I've never seen men shocked into respect for a lady who
consistently gives the right answers. Men save their respect for the ladies
with wealth and power and the ladies who are easy on the eyes, and not
necessarily in that order. ; )

I don't mind
MLH's questions, but I'm still unable to determine why he/she doesn't
Google for previous answers. Shouldn't impatience win out over
laziness? MLH seems not to care too much about what others think
regarding that habit.

Have you Googled for topics you didn't know much about? It's daunting for
most people. There are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of threads, often with
different approaches to solve similar problems. Which ones are the best? To
paraphrase Lyle, of the people who answer questions in the newsgroups, some
are hot, and some are not. Some of those answers will fire up your engine
with rocket fuel. Others will set your hair on fire. Mike wants to get the
opinions of those he knows he can trust. That's why he keeps coming back.
The posters in CDMA *get it,* whereas most people don't.

So the CDMA posters can take that as a compliment or take the opportunity to
poke fun at Mike. Before we hit that Send button, maybe we should heed the
advice, "If you haven't got anything good to say, it's better not to say
anything at all." And then maybe before Mike hits that Send button he'll
heed the advice, "What does the help file and Google say?"

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[Arno R]

"Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com" <u26473@uweschreef in bericht news:672b078d74135@uwe...

If you drive Mike from the temple, he'll just come back under a new name. PC
Datasheet did it all the time. How many times was he caught wearing sheep's
clothing? Rarely. He's probably still posting questions under an alias.
Make that *aliases.* Or he's got someone else posting questions for him.

Probably indeed.
At least his stupid advertising stopped... which was what the war was all about.

Whose posts have increased by about 2 questions a week since shortly after
the war on PC Datasheet's advertising began?

You tell us please !! Or better don't !!!
IMO it's better to not even mention the name PC Datasheet again. Let him sleep !!!!
Btw: the website about Steve still is visited by some 10-15 visitors a week, amazing !

Arno R

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

Gord wrote:

...and it all depends on the underlying message of the question, which
can range from...

"I am struggling with a problem and would appreciate some help. I have
searched .... I have tried the following
approaches myself, but so far I have been unsuccessful."

...to...

"HELP!!! URGENT!!!!!!!! I am lazy (and/or stupid) and can't be bothered
to figure this out for myself, so I want you to solve my problem for
me.

Computer users working with Access come from all over the spectrum,
admittedly some of whom shouldn't be sitting at the keyboard in the first
place. Some are beginners with no computer experience, some have a little
experience at one application but are terrified that their bosses are going
to find out they're otherwise computer illiterate, and some are very
experienced and just need a little birdie on their shoulder to point them in
the right direction.

IMO, some posters "keep coming back" mainly because they know that CDMA
has a rather large following. So, even if they are ignored by several
of the more dedicated contributors there's still a good chance that
somebody else will come along and do their thinking for them.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between a beginner who needs
to be led by the hand the first time through the maze and a slug who wants
someone else to navigate the maze, find the cheese, bring it back, and "Make
it snappy! I'm in a hurry!"

This is a community run by volunteers, so no one is forced to help the slugs.
There will always be people in this world who take advantage of others if
they let them. Don't let the slugs take advantage of you. Ignore them.
Plonk them. There's no need to get nasty. If the slugs can't find someone
here to do their bidding, they'll eventually go elsewhere.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[David W. Fenton]

"Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com" <u26473@uwewrote in
news:672c713953bd4@uwe:

Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between a beginner
who needs to be led by the hand the first time through the maze
and a slug who wants someone else to navigate the maze, find the
cheese, bring it back, and "Make it snappy! I'm in a hurry!"

MLH has programmed Access 2 for a decade or so, according to
him/her. He switched to A97 in the last year, and that has prompted
his/her questions.

We are not dealing with an inexperienced Access user. We are dealing
with someone who lacks the patience to find the answer for
him/herself.

And that's why he's in my killfile.

This is a community run by volunteers

No, it's a message board run by nobody at all. Whoever posts, posts.

If you want help, you should show that you've exhausted the obvious
answers. I don't have time to regurgitate the Help file -- I'm only
interested in answering more complicated questions, such as things
that aren't clear from the Help files, or things that don't work the
way the documentation says, or things that aren't documented, or
processes that are much more complex than the documentation makes
them sound.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[David W. Fenton]

"Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com" <u26473@uwewrote in
news:67257ee99c79c@uwe:

CD********@FortuneJames.com wrote:

[]

>I don't mind
MLH's questions, but I'm still unable to determine why he/she
doesn't Google for previous answers. Shouldn't impatience win
out over laziness? MLH seems not to care too much about what
others think regarding that habit.

Have you Googled for topics you didn't know much about?

MLH has lots of experience programming Access and shouldn't have
problems conducting useful searches. But he/she doesn't even look in
the help files, where a large number of his/her questions would be
answered without a post to the newsgroup. And he/she is using A97,
which has the best help file of any version of Access ever.

There is no excuse.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[Lyle Fairfield]

Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com wrote:

P.S. Even if I can't earn your respect, I enjoy reading your posts, Lyle.

You have my respect because of the nature of your posts. Your sex and
looks have nothing to do with this.

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

Arno R wrote:

At least his stupid advertising stopped... which was what the war was all about.

Hopefully, this isn't an interlude to the next stage.

You tell us please !! Or better don't !!!
IMO it's better to not even mention the name [Censored] again. Let him sleep !!!!

Yes. Let's let sleeping dogs lie. (No pun intended.)

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200610/1

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

You have my respect because of the nature of your posts.

I'm very happy to hear that. : ) I'll do my best to keep giving right
answers.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

[Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com]

David W. Fenton wrote:

MLH has programmed Access 2 for a decade or so, according to
him/her. He switched to A97 in the last year, and that has prompted
his/her questions.

Mike switched to Access 97 4 1/2 years ago and, judging from his specific
Access 97 questions, has been using Access 97 about half the time ever since,
but probably exclusively for the last 1 1/2 years.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....efd2083b7dbdd2
Mike used Access 97 from time to time before he switched.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....b1001fbcb3393b

We are not dealing with an inexperienced Access user. We are dealing
with someone who lacks the patience to find the answer for
him/herself.

I'm not convinced that's the whole story. I see signs where he just wanted a
quickie answer, but I also see signs of forgetfulness. He's remarked several
times about his age, and forgetfulness is one of the heavy suitcases most of
us will have to lug around with us as we get older.

Have you ever walked into a room and forgotten why you came? Have you ever
looked at a problem, realized that you've tackled it before, but sat there
asking yourself, "How did I *do* that? It was just last year!" And you had
to go into your project archive and actually look at the code you wrote last
year before it jogged your memory. "Oh, yeah. Now I remember. That was a
real bugger. Took me two days to get that module right." As we get older,
these lapses in memory get worse. Sometimes a *lot* worse.

>This is a community run by volunteers

No, it's a message board run by nobody at all. Whoever posts, posts.

You're right. No one runs it. I made a poor word choice. But it's
volunteers that make this thing work. Take away the volunteers, and then
we'd only have people posting questions, and pretty soon we'd only have spam
posted, because people would ask their questions elsewhere where they could
get answers. So I'd consider it to be a community when there are people
communicating with each other and participating in the give and take of
teaching and learning. I'd consider it a message board when there are only
job postings, spam, and whatnot, where the poster doesn't expect (or get) a
two-way dialog.

I don't have time to regurgitate the Help file -- I'm only
interested in answering more complicated questions, such as things
that aren't clear from the Help files, or things that don't work the
way the documentation says, or things that aren't documented, or
processes that are much more complex than the documentation makes
them sound.

And the newsgroup is better for it. Many people can answer the easy
questions, but fewer can handle the more difficult questions, so those who
can answer the difficult questions distribute their resources more
effectively by doing so. I know that I as well as others have learned a
great deal by reading your posts, so to distract you with posts that are the
umpteenth repeat of what shows up weekly in the newsgroups would be a shame.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

[CDMAPoster]

Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com wrote:

David W. Fenton wrote:

MLH has programmed Access 2 for a decade or so, according to
him/her. He switched to A97 in the last year, and that has prompted
his/her questions.

Mike switched to Access 97 4 1/2 years ago and, judging from his specific
Access 97 questions, has been using Access 97 about half the time ever since,
but probably exclusively for the last 1 1/2 years.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....efd2083b7dbdd2
Mike used Access 97 from time to time before he switched.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....b1001fbcb3393b

We are not dealing with an inexperienced Access user. We are dealing
with someone who lacks the patience to find the answer for
him/herself.

I'm not convinced that's the whole story. I see signs where he just wanted a
quickie answer, but I also see signs of forgetfulness. He's remarked several
times about his age, and forgetfulness is one of the heavy suitcases most of
us will have to lug around with us as we get older.

Have you ever walked into a room and forgotten why you came? Have you ever
looked at a problem, realized that you've tackled it before, but sat there
asking yourself, "How did I *do* that? It was just last year!" And you had
to go into your project archive and actually look at the code you wrote last
year before it jogged your memory. "Oh, yeah. Now I remember. That was a
real bugger. Took me two days to get that module right." As we get older,
these lapses in memory get worse. Sometimes a *lot* worse.

This is a community run by volunteers

No, it's a message board run by nobody at all. Whoever posts, posts.

You're right. No one runs it. I made a poor word choice. But it's
volunteers that make this thing work. Take away the volunteers, and then
we'd only have people posting questions, and pretty soon we'd only have spam
posted, because people would ask their questions elsewhere where they could
get answers. So I'd consider it to be a community when there are people
communicating with each other and participating in the give and take of
teaching and learning. I'd consider it a message board when there are only
job postings, spam, and whatnot, where the poster doesn't expect (or get) a
two-way dialog.

I don't have time to regurgitate the Help file -- I'm only
interested in answering more complicated questions, such as things
that aren't clear from the Help files, or things that don't work the
way the documentation says, or things that aren't documented, or
processes that are much more complex than the documentation makes
them sound.

And the newsgroup is better for it. Many people can answer the easy
questions, but fewer can handle the more difficult questions, so those who
can answer the difficult questions distribute their resources more
effectively by doing so. I know that I as well as others have learned a
great deal by reading your posts, so to distract you with posts that are the
umpteenth repeat of what shows up weekly in the newsgroups would be a shame.

--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com

Sometimes I look at some of my posts and ask myself, "How did I *do*
that? It was just an hour ago!" :-) Like Horatio, an adequate
explaination of the facts is beyond my current philosophy. BTW, I love
reading your posts Granny Spitz. I also consider:

"Many people can answer the easy questions, but fewer can handle the
more difficult questions, so those who can answer the difficult
questions distribute their resources more effectively by doing so."

to be a part of the inimitable vintage Granny Spitz style that I
referred to earlier.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

Not in our day, but at no distant one, we may shake a rod over the
heads of all, which may make the stoutest tremble. But I hope our
wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us that the less we use the
power the greater it will be. -- Writings of Thomas Jefferson

[Lyle Fairfield]

Granny Spitz via AccessMonster.com wrote:

I'm not convinced that's the whole story. I see signs where he just wanted a
quickie answer, but I also see signs of forgetfulness. He's remarked several
times about his age, and forgetfulness is one of the heavy suitcases most of
us will have to lug around with us as we get older.

Yeah, yeah ... sure, sure ... WHATEVER!

http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.d...252a1e22001498