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Null vs. nothing

I'm looking at a table with two date/time columns in it. One colulmn
has its Default Value set to Null, the other has nothing in the Default
Value entry. What is the difference between these two Default Values?

Thanks.

Bill Dennis

Aug 30 '06 #1
8 4884
Null means "Unknown"

Nothing is equivalent to "Empty".

Null does not mean "Empty". It is possible to have characters that are
not displayed in a field - non-displaying ascii chars. These could
qualify as Null values because they are unknown. For the most part,
null fields usually are empty, but null still means that the value in
the field is unknown.

Rich

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Aug 30 '06 #2
wj******@rmi.net wrote in
news:11**********************@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:
I'm looking at a table with two date/time columns in it. One
colulmn has its Default Value set to Null, the other has nothing
in the Default Value entry. What is the difference between these
two Default Values?
There is no difference if Allow zero-length string is off. If it's
on, I don't think there's any difference, either, but I can't think
of a good reason to ever set it on, so I could be wrong.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Aug 30 '06 #3

"Rich P" <rp*****@aol.comschreef in bericht news:44***********************@news.qwest.net...
Null means "Unknown"

Nothing is equivalent to "Empty".
Interesting...
Sorry Rich but I disagree on this.
Null does *not* mean unknown in my understanding of this issue.
(But I could be wrong...)
Null does not mean "Empty". It is possible to have characters that are
not displayed in a field - non-displaying ascii chars.
In that case the field is not Null (IsNull = False) Or ???
A field that is Null is an empty field in my understanding.
(But I could be wrong...)
These could
qualify as Null values because they are unknown. For the most part,
null fields usually are empty, but null still means that the value in
the field is unknown.

Rich
Think of something like a faxnumber.
When the field is Null we don't know whether there is a fax or not.
The field is not filled in. It is just empty.
Null is similar to empty (There is nothing in the field, the field is empty or deleted.)

When the field is empty we don't know whether there is a fax or not.
When we fill in a ZLS ("") there IS a fax BUT we know, that we don't know the number...

At least that's how I have understood the issue of ZLS.
(But I could be wrong...)

Anyhow: I hate ZLS strings and hardly ever (if I can: never) use them.
I hate ZLS because for the user the field is empty, and there is no visible difference with a Null-value (for the user)
I prefer to use something like <unknownfor the occasion where we know the fax IS there but the number is unknown.

Arno R
Aug 30 '06 #4
I got my information on Null from an article written by one of the
authors for Advisor media - think his name is Peter Vohgt. He had a
very intuitive article on the meaning/Usage of Null in the August 2006
(this month's issue) issue of Access Advisor Media. If you don't agree
with the information you need to take it up with Peter, Ken Getz, and
that crowd.

Rich

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Aug 30 '06 #5
On 30 Aug 2006 12:27:44 -0700, wj******@rmi.net wrote:
>I'm looking at a table with two date/time columns in it. One colulmn
has its Default Value set to Null, the other has nothing in the Default
Value entry. What is the difference between these two Default Values?

Thanks.

Bill Dennis
I think null is the correct "non-value" to use for fields - its origin is SQL where it is necessary
because of outer joins. Nothing is really the equivalent of null for objects. But because of type
conversions I expect you default value of nothing is converted to null in the table.
This is nothing to do with how null and nothing are actually represented internally!
Aug 30 '06 #6
wj******@rmi.net wrote:
I'm looking at a table with two date/time columns in it. One colulmn
has its Default Value set to Null, the other has nothing in the
Default Value entry. What is the difference between these two
Default Values?
As default value settings (on a DateTime field) there is no difference
whatsoever. DateTime fields can only contain a proper date entry or a Null. In
the case of NO entry in the DefaultValue property the field will default to Null
if Nulls are allowed. Entering "Null" as the Default Value property might make
that more explicit, but the result is the same.

The only time that a Default Value property of "Null" should make a difference
is on a Text field that also allows zero-length-strings.
--
Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
Email (as appropriate) to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com
Aug 31 '06 #7

"Rich P" <rp*****@aol.comschreef in bericht news:44***********************@news.qwest.net...
>I got my information on Null from an article written by one of the
authors for Advisor media - think his name is Peter Vohgt. He had a
very intuitive article on the meaning/Usage of Null in the August 2006
(this month's issue) issue of Access Advisor Media. If you don't agree
with the information you need to take it up with Peter, Ken Getz, and
that crowd.
Hi Rich,

Sorry if I misunderstood you.
I would not dare to 'take up' against Peter, Getz et all ;-)

I tried to check the article (the issue interests me) but it's a paid membership isn't it ??
I signed in but I need to subscribe also...

Arno R
Aug 31 '06 #8
rkc
wj******@rmi.net wrote:
I'm looking at a table with two date/time columns in it. One colulmn
has its Default Value set to Null, the other has nothing in the Default
Value entry. What is the difference between these two Default Values?
The difference is in the mind of the person who did it.
Until a value is entered into either isnull() = true.
Aug 31 '06 #9

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