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Forum Announcement

P: n/a
Dear guys,

I hope not to be intrusive. I just want to inform you, in case someone
cares, about a new forum, where Questions or Announcements on topics
relevant to this newsgroup can be freely posted:

http://datatime.forumup.it/

You will be welcome.
Thank you very much for your kind patience and attention.

Buon lavoro a tutti!

-Pam

Feb 1 '06 #1
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31 Replies


P: n/a
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
I hope not to be intrusive. I just want to inform
you, in case someone cares, about a new forum,
where Questions or Announcements on topics
relevant to this newsgroup can be freely posted:

<URL snipped>


I hope not to be insulting, but if we can read your announcement, it is
clear that we can read this newsgroup. I can count far more than your 27
users just in the most recent batch of posts that I downloaded, so why would
I want to post in your venue that only had 27 users?

As far as I can see, posting to your "forum" lets posters get around the
rule against spamming in this newsgroup (which you clearly ignored here,
anyway). But, it is right there in the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. It'd be much appreciated if you
would abide by this newsgroup's rules in the future.
Feb 1 '06 #2

P: n/a
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
I hope not to be intrusive. I just want to inform
you, in case someone cares, about a new forum,
where Questions or Announcements on topics
relevant to this newsgroup can be freely posted:

<URL snipped>


I hope not to be insulting, but if we can read your announcement, it is
clear that we can read this newsgroup. I can count far more than your 27
users just in the most recent batch of posts that I downloaded, so why would
I want to post in your venue that only had 27 users?

As far as I can see, posting to your "forum" lets posters get around the
rule against spamming in this newsgroup (which you clearly ignored here,
anyway). But, it is right there in the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. It'd be much appreciated if you
would abide by this newsgroup's rules in the future.
Feb 1 '06 #3

P: n/a
I'm not trying to start any kind of war, but what's the connection
between www.mvps.org and this forum? Can anyone post a 'charter' on some
web page and claim it governs a usenet forum? Where did this charter
come from? When was it adopted? Who adopted it, and how? What's the
procedure to change it?

I don't see any of those questions addressed on the referenced page but
it seems like they should be answered somewhere...
Larry Linson wrote:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
> I hope not to be intrusive. I just want to inform
> you, in case someone cares, about a new forum,
> where Questions or Announcements on topics
> relevant to this newsgroup can be freely posted:
>
> <URL snipped>


I hope not to be insulting, but if we can read your announcement, it is
clear that we can read this newsgroup. I can count far more than your 27
users just in the most recent batch of posts that I downloaded, so why would
I want to post in your venue that only had 27 users?

As far as I can see, posting to your "forum" lets posters get around the
rule against spamming in this newsgroup (which you clearly ignored here,
anyway). But, it is right there in the FAQ at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. It'd be much appreciated if you
would abide by this newsgroup's rules in the future.

Feb 2 '06 #4

P: n/a
Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.

You are generous by saying I have 27 users. Actually that's not true,
I have just 0 real users, because the forum is quite recent and I have
never advertised it.

As to policy, yes I would like to be quite permissive. I just think
that "freedom" is the
first word to be associated with "Internet". It's clear that
occasionally I will get someone who would abuse of their freedom. But I
have also the freedom to remove posts that are offensive or irrelevant
to my topic.

Clearly, I do think that freedom must be accompanied by respect for
others, and must not limit other people freedom.

Take care. And I do hope to see you sometime spamming in my forum ;-)
!

A presto,

-Pam

Feb 2 '06 #5

P: n/a
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.


If it were simply a matter of offending me, that would be a minor matter.
What you did was to violate the USENET rules and charter of this newsgroup
(the charter of which was subject of official RFD -- request for discussion
and CFV -- call for votes, back in 1993), and that is not a minor matter.

To mike noel, who asked... Googling will get you to some official sources
for the Charter, which is reproduced in the FAQ, and, yes, in 1993 there
was, and I suspect still is, a formal procedure for creating USENET
newsgroups (except "alt" category newsgroups, which were, and are, a "free
for all").

If you Google a bit, you will find that I cast one of the official votes
approving this newsgroup, and I have been here ever since. Thus I take
particular interest in seeing that the rules and charter are observed.

Larry Linson
Feb 2 '06 #6

P: n/a
Thank Larry for your explanation.
So, next time I want to invite people to take a look at my forum, what
is the best way to make the invitation here?

-Pam

Larry Linson ha scritto:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
> Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.


If it were simply a matter of offending me, that would be a minor matter.
What you did was to violate the USENET rules and charter of this newsgroup
(the charter of which was subject of official RFD -- request for discussion
and CFV -- call for votes, back in 1993), and that is not a minor matter.

To mike noel, who asked... Googling will get you to some official sources
for the Charter, which is reproduced in the FAQ, and, yes, in 1993 there
was, and I suspect still is, a formal procedure for creating USENET
newsgroups (except "alt" category newsgroups, which were, and are, a "free
for all").

If you Google a bit, you will find that I cast one of the official votes
approving this newsgroup, and I have been here ever since. Thus I take
particular interest in seeing that the rules and charter are observed.

Larry Linson


Feb 2 '06 #7

P: n/a
pa***********@libero.it wrote:
Thank Larry for your explanation.
So, next time I want to invite people to take a look at my forum, what
is the best way to make the invitation here?

Feb 2 '06 #8

P: n/a
Thanks Larry.

I did find the '93 CFV but the charter it shows is not as detailed as
the one on www.mvps.org - or maybe I'm just confusing where the charter
on www.mvps.org ends and where the faq begins. From what I see, the
charter is the first two paragraphs under "Charter for
comp.databases.ms-access", up to but excluding everything from
"WARNING!" on down. Thus the various "forbiddens" are not part of the
charter but part of the faq. Is that your understanding as well?

Larry Linson wrote:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
> Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.


If it were simply a matter of offending me, that would be a minor matter.
What you did was to violate the USENET rules and charter of this newsgroup
(the charter of which was subject of official RFD -- request for discussion
and CFV -- call for votes, back in 1993), and that is not a minor matter.

To mike noel, who asked... Googling will get you to some official sources
for the Charter, which is reproduced in the FAQ, and, yes, in 1993 there
was, and I suspect still is, a formal procedure for creating USENET
newsgroups (except "alt" category newsgroups, which were, and are, a "free
for all").

If you Google a bit, you will find that I cast one of the official votes
approving this newsgroup, and I have been here ever since. Thus I take
particular interest in seeing that the rules and charter are observed.

Larry Linson

Feb 2 '06 #9

P: n/a
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
Thank Larry for your explanation.
So, next time I want to invite people to take
a look at my forum, what is the best way
to make the invitation here?


What part of "advertising, even of free stuff, is prohibited" do you find
difficult to understand, Pamela? _This_ is _not_ the place to invite people
to participate in your forum.

If you actually ask or answer questions about Access here, having the URL in
your SIG line might get some click-throughs. Contact information in a SIG of
four or so lines is not prohibited. Unsolicited advertising _is_ prohibited,
so you should not try to "work around" the prohibition in order to display
your SIG.
Feb 2 '06 #10

P: n/a
I will follow your signature suggestion, Larry. However...
It's kind of ironical that I, in my forum, (which should be something
more like a "private" circle than Usenet) allow any kind of
announcement and advertising, and, instead, on the Usenet, you cannot
make an invitation to people. Where is the original Internet philosophy
here? I receive tons of garbage everyday, and I really mean 'garbage',
like Viagra and Penis enlargment (and I don't even have one!), mostly
coming from the USA, and I don't complain. Then, I post an occasional
polite invitation on the Usenet and I am told I am a spammer in
violation of the law.

Really kind of ironical!

Anyway, very nice to get to know you. Take care :-)
-Pam

----------------------
Pamela

Forum for discussion on Reporting, Databases, OLAP, etc.
http://datatime.forumup.it/

Feb 2 '06 #11

P: n/a
Mike,

Would you please post the link you found to 93 CFV.

Thanks!

Steve
"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in message
news:43**************@gci.net...
Thanks Larry.

I did find the '93 CFV but the charter it shows is not as detailed as the
one on www.mvps.org - or maybe I'm just confusing where the charter on
www.mvps.org ends and where the faq begins. From what I see, the charter
is the first two paragraphs under "Charter for comp.databases.ms-access",
up to but excluding everything from "WARNING!" on down. Thus the various
"forbiddens" are not part of the charter but part of the faq. Is that your
understanding as well?

Larry Linson wrote:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
> Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.


If it were simply a matter of offending me, that would be a minor matter.
What you did was to violate the USENET rules and charter of this
newsgroup (the charter of which was subject of official RFD -- request
for discussion and CFV -- call for votes, back in 1993), and that is not
a minor matter.

To mike noel, who asked... Googling will get you to some official sources
for the Charter, which is reproduced in the FAQ, and, yes, in 1993 there
was, and I suspect still is, a formal procedure for creating USENET
newsgroups (except "alt" category newsgroups, which were, and are, a
"free for all").

If you Google a bit, you will find that I cast one of the official votes
approving this newsgroup, and I have been here ever since. Thus I take
particular interest in seeing that the rules and charter are observed.

Larry Linson


Feb 2 '06 #12

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:LZqEf.90879$M94.24835@trnddc01:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote
Thank Larry for your explanation.
So, next time I want to invite people to take
a look at my forum, what is the best way
to make the invitation here?


What part of "advertising, even of free stuff, is prohibited" do
you find difficult to understand, Pamela? _This_ is _not_ the
place to invite people to participate in your forum.


Er, I think that's a pretty darned sever reading of the advertising
prohibition.

Remember, we once had a website set up by a regular contributor for
posting Access jobs, and nobody seemed to have a problem with that
having been announced and discussed in this newsgroup.

I can't see that I'd be interested in participating, but maybe
somebody would, and I don't see how it would in any way pollute the
newsgroup to have an announcement of the forum posted here.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Feb 2 '06 #13

P: n/a
Pam,

Here is some more about Larry Linson ---

I have been offering fee based help on the newsgroups for many years. A
couple of years ago Larry was unable to find work and emailed me and asked
if I would subcontract to him some of the work I was doing for people who
came to me after seeing my name in the newsgroups. I was keeping up with the
work I was getting and never did. When he was out of work he wanted to come
in the back door and do work for anyone from the newsgroup who was willing
to pay for the help they needed. Now Larry condemns me for offering help on
the newsgroup.

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1100 users have come from to me the newsgroups requesting help
re******@pcdatasheet.com

<pa***********@libero.it> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
I will follow your signature suggestion, Larry. However...
It's kind of ironical that I, in my forum, (which should be something
more like a "private" circle than Usenet) allow any kind of
announcement and advertising, and, instead, on the Usenet, you cannot
make an invitation to people. Where is the original Internet philosophy
here? I receive tons of garbage everyday, and I really mean 'garbage',
like Viagra and Penis enlargment (and I don't even have one!), mostly
coming from the USA, and I don't complain. Then, I post an occasional
polite invitation on the Usenet and I am told I am a spammer in
violation of the law.

Really kind of ironical!

Anyway, very nice to get to know you. Take care :-)
-Pam

----------------------
Pamela

Forum for discussion on Reporting, Databases, OLAP, etc.
http://datatime.forumup.it/

Feb 2 '06 #14

P: n/a
"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote
I did find the '93 CFV but the charter it shows
is not as detailed as the one on www.mvps.org -
or maybe I'm just confusing where the charter
on www.mvps.org ends and where the faq begins. From what I see, the charter is the first two
paragraphs under "Charter for
comp.databases.ms-access", up to but excluding
everything from "WARNING!" on down. Thus
the various "forbiddens" are not part of the
charter but part of the faq. Is that your under-
standing as well?


Those "forbiddens" are part of basic Internet rules, summarized in the FAQ
for convenience. (Those same admonitions are included in most Internet
Service Providers' Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policy, too).

Earlier in this thread, I listed two adopted RFCs that apply, though they
are not the only ones. In summary, the rule is that advertising, including
employement solicitation, is allowed only if specifically permitted by the
newsgroup's charter.

Charters are, indeed, brief, and state the subject/topic of the newsgroup.
The subject/topic of this one (as most other technical discussion
newsgroups) does _not_ include advertising, employment solicitation, nor
promotion of services.

Regional / local "classified ad" newsgroups are examples of newsgroups whose
charter does permit advertising. "Jobs" newsgroups are examples of
newsgroups whose charter permits "employment solicitation".

Perhaps Pamela would not find it so surprising if she realized that there
are thousands and thousands of newsgroups, and each is defined as to its
purpose and valid use. Just because she found this one, and it seemed to her
to be a good place to advertise does not mean that advertising is permitted.

She, of course, sets the rules for her website / forum and is free to set
them as she likes (within whatever constraints her web presence provider may
place on her); but the rules here have long been set and are well
documented.
Feb 2 '06 #15

P: n/a
PC Datasheet wrote:
Now Larry condemns me for offering help on
the newsgroup.


<snip drivel>

And this has to do with the current thread... how, exactly?

I played university level basketball in the 80s. I once slipped on a
puddle of oil my gunner had spilled on the hangar floor while cleaning
our coaxial machine gun. I hurt my knee. I shot a man who was trying
to break into the ammunition dump I was guarding. When I was last on
the top of the Eiffel Tower, the air was hazy. I slept in West Kennet
Long Barrow near the Summer Solstice in 1988 but that was the 400
anniversary of the defeat of the Spanish Aramada.

And in spite of all the above, Larry is talking about usenet etiquette?
How outrageous.

--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Feb 2 '06 #16

P: n/a
http://groups.google.com/group/news..../month/1993-05

PC Datasheet wrote:
Mike,

Would you please post the link you found to 93 CFV.

Thanks!

Steve
"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in message
news:43**************@gci.net...
Thanks Larry.

I did find the '93 CFV but the charter it shows is not as detailed as the
one on www.mvps.org - or maybe I'm just confusing where the charter on
www.mvps.org ends and where the faq begins. From what I see, the charter
is the first two paragraphs under "Charter for comp.databases.ms-access",
up to but excluding everything from "WARNING!" on down. Thus the various
"forbiddens" are not part of the charter but part of the faq. Is that your
understanding as well?

Larry Linson wrote:
<pa***********@libero.it> wrote

> Hi Larry, sorry if I have offended you. I did not mean it.

If it were simply a matter of offending me, that would be a minor matter.
What you did was to violate the USENET rules and charter of this
newsgroup (the charter of which was subject of official RFD -- request
for discussion and CFV -- call for votes, back in 1993), and that is not
a minor matter.

To mike noel, who asked... Googling will get you to some official sources
for the Charter, which is reproduced in the FAQ, and, yes, in 1993 there
was, and I suspect still is, a formal procedure for creating USENET
newsgroups (except "alt" category newsgroups, which were, and are, a
"free for all").

If you Google a bit, you will find that I cast one of the official votes
approving this newsgroup, and I have been here ever since. Thus I take
particular interest in seeing that the rules and charter are observed.

Larry Linson


Feb 2 '06 #17

P: n/a
Sometimes I think I said something but I didn't (happens as you get
older). Perhaps you're getting older too! I looked back thru this thread
and could not find any reference to the "two adopted RFCs" you thought
you listed. Would you mind repeating?

Larry Linson wrote:
"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote
> I did find the '93 CFV but the charter it shows
> is not as detailed as the one on www.mvps.org -
> or maybe I'm just confusing where the charter
> on www.mvps.org ends and where the faq begins.

> From what I see, the charter is the first two
> paragraphs under "Charter for
> comp.databases.ms-access", up to but excluding
> everything from "WARNING!" on down. Thus
> the various "forbiddens" are not part of the
> charter but part of the faq. Is that your under-
> standing as well?


Those "forbiddens" are part of basic Internet rules, summarized in the FAQ
for convenience. (Those same admonitions are included in most Internet
Service Providers' Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policy, too).

Earlier in this thread, I listed two adopted RFCs that apply, though they
are not the only ones. In summary, the rule is that advertising, including
employement solicitation, is allowed only if specifically permitted by the
newsgroup's charter.

Charters are, indeed, brief, and state the subject/topic of the newsgroup.
The subject/topic of this one (as most other technical discussion
newsgroups) does _not_ include advertising, employment solicitation, nor
promotion of services.

Regional / local "classified ad" newsgroups are examples of newsgroups whose
charter does permit advertising. "Jobs" newsgroups are examples of
newsgroups whose charter permits "employment solicitation".

Perhaps Pamela would not find it so surprising if she realized that there
are thousands and thousands of newsgroups, and each is defined as to its
purpose and valid use. Just because she found this one, and it seemed to her
to be a good place to advertise does not mean that advertising is permitted.

She, of course, sets the rules for her website / forum and is free to set
them as she likes (within whatever constraints her web presence provider may
place on her); but the rules here have long been set and are well
documented.

Feb 2 '06 #18

P: n/a
So, is the purpose to help Access users, something this newsgroup and the
microsoft.public.access.* newsgrouips appear to be doing quite well or is it
just a vehicle to collect revenue from the ads. If it is the former, will
you be removing the ads?

John... Visio MVP

<pa***********@libero.it> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Dear guys,

I hope not to be intrusive. I just want to inform you, in case someone
cares, about a new forum, where Questions or Announcements on topics
relevant to this newsgroup can be freely posted:

http://datatime.forumup.it/

You will be welcome.
Thank you very much for your kind patience and attention.

Buon lavoro a tutti!

-Pam

Feb 2 '06 #19

P: n/a
"PC Datasheet" wrote
A couple of years ago Larry was unable to find
work and emailed me and asked if I would
subcontract to him some of the work I was doing


I've responded to your false accusation in another thread, Steve.

I have never been so hard up for work that I would subcontract to you. I
remember well that you introduced yourself to this newsgroup looking for
justification not to pay a subcontractor because he didn't do as much as you
thought he should in the little time you allowed -- and, according to posts
by that subcontractor, never paid him even for the work he did.

Life's 'way too short to subcontract to people who stiff their
subcontractors.


Feb 3 '06 #20

P: n/a
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote in
news:R-********************@magma.ca:
So, is the purpose to help Access users, something this newsgroup
and the microsoft.public.access.* newsgrouips appear to be doing
quite well or is it just a vehicle to collect revenue from the
ads. If it is the former, will you be removing the ads?


I simply don't understand the hostility to Pamela's post.

If she wants to run ads to help support the website she is taking
the time and effort to set up (and pay for, presumably) why would
that in any way mean that she can't post a notice about her forum's
existence here in this newsgroup?

What is wrong with you people that you can't tell the difference
between actually posting a commercial solicitation and simply
announcing a potentially useful resource for those who read this
newsgroup?

Allowing posts like Pamela's is not by any means the same thing as
allowing Steve to post solicitations for work. The difference is
bloody obvious to anyone who looks at it for a few seconds and
doesn't bring a pre-existing agenda to the issue.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Feb 3 '06 #21

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:wrxEf.728$7d.464@trnddc04:
"PC Datasheet" wrote
A couple of years ago Larry was unable to find
work and emailed me and asked if I would
subcontract to him some of the work I was doing


I've responded to your false accusation in another thread, Steve.


Like Don Mellon and his pedophilia accusations, Steve will continue
to post this allegation no matter how many times you point out that
it's a blatant falsehood.

We've all read your denial, Larry, so you don't need to refute each
incident of Steve's lying.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Feb 3 '06 #22

P: n/a
"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote
. . . I looked back thru this thread and could
not find any reference to the "two adopted
RFCs" you thought you listed. Would you
mind repeating?


No problem... RFC 1855 on General Netiquette. RFC 3098 deals with Internet
advertising in general, and has a specific section, entitled "Netnews and
E-Mailing List Group Postings" . Finally, Googling on all of the words "RFC
Advertising Usenet", led to the pertinent FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/adve.../how-to/part1/

Googling on exact phrase "RFC 1855" got about 54,600 hits, according to
Google, "RFC 3098" got about 1,790 and all words ""RFC Advertising Usenet"
got about 88,900.

Larry
Feb 3 '06 #23

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" wrote
The difference is bloody obvious to anyone who
looks at it for a few seconds and doesn't bring a
pre-existing agenda to the issue.


Yes, indeed, David. My pre-existing agenda is boldly stated in the FAQ, and
it wasn't I who wrote that. My response to mike noel lists some references
that the authors of the FAQ may have used.

I don't recall your getting your shorts in a knot over our gently
admonishing advertisers in the past -- and we have, by responding to them,
managed to keep this newsgroup sufficiently free of advertising that it is
useful.

Steve and Don are exceptions -- most of the spammmers and disruptors have
been reasonable enough that they have disappeared after a brief period of
protesting that they didn't like our rules, even He Whose Name We No Longer
Mention Here.

Larry
Feb 3 '06 #24

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote in
news:R-********************@magma.ca:
So, is the purpose to help Access users, something this newsgroup
and the microsoft.public.access.* newsgrouips appear to be doing
quite well or is it just a vehicle to collect revenue from the
ads. If it is the former, will you be removing the ads?
I simply don't understand the hostility to Pamela's post.


No hostility intended. I was just looking for an honest answer as to why she
needed to set up a seperate forum when CDMA exists. The strength of CDMA is
in the participants who provide the free support. This newsgroup is
relatively clean of noise, so the only reason I can see for setting up a new
forum was to make money. I was just giving her an oppurtunity to correct
that impression.
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/


John... Visio MVP
Feb 3 '06 #25

P: n/a
Just woke I up and I am really amazed of what is happening here. Thank
you very much to anybody for offering your opinion. I can see now
better what's the real point. There seem to be also money interest
underneath. So now I can see my remarks about the "Internet freedom"
are really kind of naive.

Well just in cast it can help, i can say that I have set the forum
http://datatime.forumup.it/ * freeely * and I don't pay anything for
it, I don't even gain anything (if we exclude knowledge, which I
consider the most important of the assets one can have) though since I
am not the owner of the server or the software. If the forum grows a
little and start working * I will be happy to pay my own money * to
remove some *little* ads that I can see the owner has on the forum main
page....

Having said that, I will leave to you guys the last word, and please do
come to partecipate to the forum too, besides this very nice newsgroup!
I feel very honored my thread is receiving so much attention and thank
you all very much.

Un caro saluto a Voi tutti!

-Pam
----------------------
Pamela

Forum for discussion on Reporting, Databases, OLAP, etc.
http://datatime.forumup.it/

Feb 3 '06 #26

P: n/a
If what you say is true about the ads, then good luck.

The difficulties I see with another Access forum is attracting enough
volunteers to help answer the questions and watering down the community.
Most people will tend to go towards the most active forums. So you have an
uphill struggle to get to the size of CDMA or the microsoft.public.access.*
newsgroups.

John... Visio MVP

<pa***********@libero.it> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Just woke I up and I am really amazed of what is happening here. Thank
you very much to anybody for offering your opinion. I can see now
better what's the real point. There seem to be also money interest
underneath. So now I can see my remarks about the "Internet freedom"
are really kind of naive.

Well just in cast it can help, i can say that I have set the forum
http://datatime.forumup.it/ * freeely * and I don't pay anything for
it, I don't even gain anything (if we exclude knowledge, which I
consider the most important of the assets one can have) though since I
am not the owner of the server or the software. If the forum grows a
little and start working * I will be happy to pay my own money * to
remove some *little* ads that I can see the owner has on the forum main
page....

Having said that, I will leave to you guys the last word, and please do
come to partecipate to the forum too, besides this very nice newsgroup!
I feel very honored my thread is receiving so much attention and thank
you all very much.

Un caro saluto a Voi tutti!

-Pam
----------------------
Pamela

Forum for discussion on Reporting, Databases, OLAP, etc.
http://datatime.forumup.it/

Feb 3 '06 #27

P: n/a
Very true indeed, John.

Personally, I like to start difficult things: that's the salt of life.
And I guess we also do not want a monopoly. Monopolies can become very
arrogant... It's just wise to feed alternatives!

-Pam

Feb 3 '06 #28

P: n/a
One of the things the charter/fake does not seem to prohibit is
"testimonials" - feedback on this forum from users of your forum about
their good results there (unless of course the users have some
commercial interest in your site, then that might be 'advertising'). Of
course the reciprocal is true as well - I could post on your site what
great results I've gotten here...
pa***********@libero.it wrote:
Just woke I up and I am really amazed of what is happening here. Thank
you very much to anybody for offering your opinion. I can see now
better what's the real point. There seem to be also money interest
underneath. So now I can see my remarks about the "Internet freedom"
are really kind of naive.

Well just in cast it can help, i can say that I have set the forum
http://datatime.forumup.it/ * freeely * and I don't pay anything for
it, I don't even gain anything (if we exclude knowledge, which I
consider the most important of the assets one can have) though since I
am not the owner of the server or the software. If the forum grows a
little and start working * I will be happy to pay my own money * to
remove some *little* ads that I can see the owner has on the forum main
page....

Having said that, I will leave to you guys the last word, and please do
come to partecipate to the forum too, besides this very nice newsgroup!
I feel very honored my thread is receiving so much attention and thank
you all very much.

Un caro saluto a Voi tutti!

-Pam
----------------------
Pamela

Forum for discussion on Reporting, Databases, OLAP, etc.
http://datatime.forumup.it/

Feb 3 '06 #29

P: n/a
Nor does it prohibit someone who has made ten distinct posts here, five
of which have advertised his "free" utility, three of which have talked
about another forum, and two of which have offered assistance from
referring to a document that represents the long-standing culture of
CDMA as "fake".
Here are some opinions of mine that you might consider.
1. If you change the charter to allow advertising then almost all of
the regular posters here who answer almost all of the questions (either
directly or through others who give the "standard answer" which we
originally created by one of those regulars) will leave.
2. It's very unlikely that those who want to advertise can take their
place; people who advertise, like you and PC Datasheet, have not
demonstrated any measurable level of expertise;
3. If the experts don't answer questions here, it's quite possible that
no one will come, so what will the point be of advertising?

Feb 3 '06 #30

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:MnyEf.3168$7d.2376@trnddc05:
"David W. Fenton" wrote
The difference is bloody obvious to anyone who
looks at it for a few seconds and doesn't bring a
pre-existing agenda to the issue.
Yes, indeed, David. My pre-existing agenda is boldly stated in the
FAQ, and it wasn't I who wrote that. My response to mike noel
lists some references that the authors of the FAQ may have used.


How, then, was it OK for the DDPI to use the newsgroup to point
people at its aborted project? Or what about that site that allowed
us to post job listings? Was that illegal? I didn't hear any
complaining about that back then.
I don't recall your getting your shorts in a knot over our gently
admonishing advertisers in the past -- and we have, by responding
to them, managed to keep this newsgroup sufficiently free of
advertising that it is useful.
I don't see posting an announcement of a forum devoted to Access as
being an advertisement, any more than posting a link to the Access
12 blog should have been seen as an advertisement.

That is, it's your definition of "advertising" that I'm having a lot
of problems with.
Steve and Don are exceptions -- most of the spammmers and
disruptors have been reasonable enough that they have disappeared
after a brief period of protesting that they didn't like our
rules, even He Whose Name We No Longer Mention Here.


Isn't it clear that Pamela is *not* a spammer and not a Steve or
Don?

Hello?

Have you no basic common sense?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Feb 3 '06 #31

P: n/a
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote in
news:U-********************@magma.ca:
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote in
news:R-********************@magma.ca:
So, is the purpose to help Access users, something this
newsgroup and the microsoft.public.access.* newsgrouips appear
to be doing quite well or is it just a vehicle to collect
revenue from the ads. If it is the former, will you be removing
the ads?
I simply don't understand the hostility to Pamela's post.


No hostility intended. I was just looking for an honest answer as
to why she needed to set up a seperate forum when CDMA exists. The
strength of CDMA is in the participants who provide the free
support. . . .


Well, I agree with that, but I wasn't disputing your right to
question the value of what she's posting. I'm simply differing with
the suggestion that her posting of an announcement of her forum is
somehow a violation of the charter. Perhaps you aren't one of the
people who suggested that -- if so, then my puzzlement is not
directed at you.
. . . This newsgroup is
relatively clean of noise, so the only reason I can see for
setting up a new forum was to make money. I was just giving her an
oppurtunity to correct that impression.


Personally, I don't see why there'd be something wrong if she *was*
supporting her website with ads, as long as she's trying to provide
value to the people who use her forum. Why should she not be able to
have ads to make back some of the cost of hosting and maintaining
the forum?

The reason the Access jobs site disappeared because it was costing
the person who was hosting it too much. If he'd been able to get a
sponsor to advertise on it to defray some of those costs, the site
might still be there, providing value to all of us.

I sense, though, that you think that a pointer to a site with no ads
is OK, but a pointer to an advertising-supported site is *not*, and
would use as your justification the charter prohibition on
advertising (please tell me which of these assumptions is
incorrect).

I can't see it that way. The charter prohibits advertising in the
newsgroup, not announcements or links to anything with advertising.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Feb 3 '06 #32

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