How to join two fields

[correo]

Hello,

This is probably a silly question that has been addressed already, but
I tried searching and found nothing. How do I join two fields into one?
Suppose I have a table that has this record:

JOHN | SMITH | 555-1234

and I want to join the first two fields so that the resulting table has
the record:

JOHN SMITH | 555-1234

How can I do it? Thanks!

Diego

[Wayne Gillespie]

On 23 Dec 2005 19:52:57 -0800, co****@ironcito.com wrote:

Hello,

This is probably a silly question that has been addressed already, but
I tried searching and found nothing. How do I join two fields into one?
Suppose I have a table that has this record:

JOHN | SMITH | 555-1234

and I want to join the first two fields so that the resulting table has
the record:

JOHN SMITH | 555-1234

How can I do it? Thanks!

Diego

Where do you intend to use the concatenated data?

If in a query use something like -

SELECT [FirstName] & " " & [LastName] As FullName From tblSomeTable;

In the query builder you would enter this as FullName:[FirstName] & " " & [LastName] in the top line of the lower grid.

If it is to be used as the ControlSource of a control in a form or report -

=[FirstName] & " " & [LastName]

If there is a chance that your data may contain trailing spaces you can use -

Trim([FirstName]) & " " &Trim([LastName])

to remove the trailing spaces.

Wayne Gillespie
Gosford NSW Australia

[MLH]

On 23 Dec 2005 19:52:57 -0800, co****@ironcito.com wrote:

Hello,

This is probably a silly question that has been addressed already, but
I tried searching and found nothing. How do I join two fields into one?
Suppose I have a table that has this record:

JOHN | SMITH | 555-1234

and I want to join the first two fields so that the resulting table has
the record:

JOHN SMITH | 555-1234

How can I do it? Thanks!

Diego

Be forewarned... someone may scold you for not searching google
or Access HELP. You can just say [FName] & " " & [LName] to join
first name and the last name separated by a space. Looks like you
have the phone number part down pat. BTW, if you do search google
you'll get about 115-million hits on "join fields". Some may tell you
that's a good information source. I won't.

[Wayne Gillespie]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:25:31 -0500, MLH <CR**@NorthState.net> wrote:

Be forewarned... someone may scold you for not searching google
or Access HELP. You can just say [FName] & " " & [LName] to join
first name and the last name separated by a space. Looks like you
have the phone number part down pat. BTW, if you do search google
you'll get about 115-million hits on "join fields". Some may tell you
that's a good information source. I won't.

MLH

I know you hate to read but I really recommend you read http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm
If you want to ride your ride your high horse the end result is that you will get less and less regulars who are willing
to offer you help (ie: you lose). CDMA is a tremendous resource with many highly talented people willing to offer help,
but nobody likes to do someone else homework.

I suggest you a) lean to use the help files effectively, b) learn to search Google effectively (especially Google
groups) and c) most importantly, learn to listen.
Wayne Gillespie
Gosford NSW Australia

[Lyle Fairfield]

MLH <CR**@NorthState.net> wrote in
news:8j********************************@4ax.com:

Be forewarned... someone may scold you for not searching google
or Access HELP.

Comment:

1. So far no one has. But perhaps some will ask for more details, because
the question isn't wonderfully clear about how and where and when the OP
wants to join the two fields. When someone does this with your questions,
you tend to complain.

2. If you read Wayne's answer you will notice that he addresses many
possibilities; you have complained about such respsonses being off-topic.

3. Recently you asked for comment; when one asks for comment one should
expect to get comment, even about Google. It's entirely inappropriate for
you to ask for comment and then to complain about the comment.

4. At least two people have written free utilities to help you with the
problem you were dealing with when you said, "I can't really afford to
buy any of the excellent commercially available 3rd party tools I've
looked at." So far, your reponse has been zilch.

5. You lost a thread. You've been posting in CDMA for three years. And
you lost a thread! Going to Google and finding the thread is the work of
twenty seconds. You showed your respect for and gratitude to those
persons who donated their time and skills to helping you in the lost
thread, by simply (re)posting a slight paraphrase of the question.

6. You haven't found things in the Help file. You've been working with
Access for three years and you can't find things in the Help file. It
seems you don't know how to use the Help file. And when, because of this,
you can't find things in the Help file, you respond that your help file
is lacking. Of course it is, because Bill Gates, noting your postng
pattern and knowing your need for special answers to bizarrely phrased
questions gave you your own special and unique help file.

7. While you were unable to find the CDMA thread where you asked for and
received help and you were unable to find Help or Google references to
Disable F11 Access97 you were able to find the post where I called David
stupid. And you decided to use this disagreement between two of the
regulars here as justification for your own fractured interaction with
one of them.

(Have you noticed I didn't stop at three this time?)

Try taking some of the advice that has been offered here by several
posters. Try changing. Try understanding that almost any question raises
other questions, other factors which should be addressed. Try
understanding that taking a few minutes to make your question as simple
and clear as possible shows respect for everyone who may read and try to
answer the question, shows an appreciation for the communal nature of
usenet groups. Try being fair to those who respond. Try understanding
that any response is better than no response. Try understanding that
those with whom you have been battling recently did not pull your name
out of hat; the battles started because of your posts. When you get a
response you don't like try thinking, Why?"
The culture of CDMA is fluid. Make a few good posts. In two weeks you'll
be a hero.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[ironcito]

Uhmm... I don't know what happened here, I see you guys replying to
"MLH", but I don't see his/her post. Anyway, Wayne's answer worked...
so thank you, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. :-)

Diego

[Wayne Gillespie]

On 24 Dec 2005 04:24:43 -0800, "ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote:

Uhmm... I don't know what happened here, I see you guys replying to
"MLH", but I don't see his/her post. Anyway, Wayne's answer worked...
so thank you, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. :-)

Diego

You have nothing to apologise for, you have done nothing wrong.
MLH responded to your post and used it as soapbox to air his grievances over advise he been given about his posting
habits in other threads.
I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.

Wayne Gillespie
Gosford NSW Australia

[Lyle Fairfield]

I'm sorrier than Wayne! :-)

[Arno R]

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> schreef in bericht news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

Uhmm... I don't know what happened here, I see you guys replying to
"MLH", but I don't see his/her post.

Same for me here...

So I Googled for the thread.
I can find the thread in cdma but no post from MLH there ...

Would be interested to know what happened.

Arno R

[Lyle Fairfield]

Google has a Remove function. Its confirm screen is shown below. Most
usenet clients have the same facility. Of course, one is generally
restricted to removing (or deleting) only posts which one made. This is
not fool-proof and unless it is done almost immediately after posting,
the message has often been sent to many servers and will continue to
live on one or more of them. But for a sixty second, "Why did I SAY
that???", it's pretty good. Perhaps this is what MLH did.
ly***********@aim.com | My Groups | Help | Sign out

comp.databases.ms-access - Remove Message

Are you sure you wish to remove this message?
It will not be recoverable after it is removed.

Lyle Fairfield Dec 24, 4:57 am Re: How to join two fields

Message ID: 11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com

The message will be removed immediately from this group's online
archive, and it will no longer show up in search results.

No, I don't want to remove this message Yes, remove it now

[Arno R]

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> schreef in bericht news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

Google has a Remove function. Its confirm screen is shown below. Most
usenet clients have the same facility. Of course, one is generally
restricted to removing (or deleting) only posts which one made. This is
not fool-proof and unless it is done almost immediately after posting,
the message has often been sent to many servers and will continue to
live on one or more of them. But for a sixty second, "Why did I SAY
that???", it's pretty good. Perhaps this is what MLH did.


ly***********@aim.com | My Groups | Help | Sign out

comp.databases.ms-access - Remove Message

Are you sure you wish to remove this message?
It will not be recoverable after it is removed.

Lyle Fairfield Dec 24, 4:57 am Re: How to join two fields

Message ID: 11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com

The message will be removed immediately from this group's online
archive, and it will no longer show up in search results.

No, I don't want to remove this message Yes, remove it now

Thanks for the answer Lyle.
I wasn't aware of *any* remove function once a message had been posted to usenet.
A 'sixty second' possiblity to correct (delete) a message would be useful 'sometimes'.
I do not post messages 'just like that', so I know what message I am sending, but a few times recently I made a 'mistake' by posting with a wrong account...

With my newsreader (OE) this 'sixty second' possiblity is not available...
I might try another news-client, but until now I am/was fairly satisfied with the possibilities of OE.
Some people here (I know one of them) will say I am stupid for using OE, but...

Arno R

[Lyle Fairfield]

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; I'm planning to test in 59
seconds.

[Lyle Fairfield]

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is only one of these
messages then it works.

[Randy Harris]

"Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:43***********************@text.nova.planet.nl ...

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> schreef in bericht
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

Google has a Remove function. Its confirm screen is shown below. Most
usenet clients have the same facility. Of course, one is generally
restricted to removing (or deleting) only posts which one made. This is
not fool-proof and unless it is done almost immediately after posting,
the message has often been sent to many servers and will continue to
live on one or more of them. But for a sixty second, "Why did I SAY
that???", it's pretty good. Perhaps this is what MLH did.
ly***********@aim.com | My Groups | Help | Sign out

comp.databases.ms-access - Remove Message

Are you sure you wish to remove this message?
It will not be recoverable after it is removed.

Lyle Fairfield Dec 24, 4:57 am Re: How to join two fields

Message ID: 11**********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com

The message will be removed immediately from this group's online
archive, and it will no longer show up in search results.

No, I don't want to remove this message Yes, remove it now

Thanks for the answer Lyle.
I wasn't aware of *any* remove function once a message had been posted to
usenet.
A 'sixty second' possiblity to correct (delete) a message would be useful
'sometimes'.
I do not post messages 'just like that', so I know what message I am
sending, but a few times recently I made a 'mistake' by posting with a wrong
account...

With my newsreader (OE) this 'sixty second' possiblity is not available...
I might try another news-client, but until now I am/was fairly satisfied
with the possibilities of OE.
Some people here (I know one of them) will say I am stupid for using OE,
but...

Arno R
I have looked extensively for a replacement for OE. There are better
newsreaders and there are better mail clients. But, if you want a single
program that does both there just isn't anything better. I think I've tried
them all.
--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

[Randy Harris]

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZF*****************@read1.cgocable.net...

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is only one of these messages then it works.

Both messages showed up.

[Lyle Fairfield]

Yes.
It seems Google captured the message I Cancelled before it was removed.

But if I try to read the message in news.cogeco.ca, I get:

Error!
newsgroup server responded:No Such Article In Group

Perhaps the article has expired

<QE*****************@read1.cgocable.net> (19539)

Click here to remove all expired articles

[ironcito]

Randy Harris wrote:

I have looked extensively for a replacement for OE. There are better
newsreaders and there are better mail clients. But, if you want a single
program that does both there just isn't anything better. I think I've tried
them all.

Thunderbird? I just recently migrated to Thunderbird for email, and its
cool. My ISP doesn't have a Usenet server, so I just post and read
through Google, but Tbird does have an integrated news reader.

Diego

[Arno R]

One learnes every day isn't it? (even on Xmas eve...)
Never seen this possibility in OE.
Just removed my other message in this thread. Let's see what happenes...
I will also try to remove this one about 10 seconds after I see it in my reader ...

Arno R

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly******@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:ZF*****************@read1.cgocable.net...

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is only one of these
messages then it works.

[Arno R]

"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> schreef in bericht news:E3*******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZF*****************@read1.cgocable.net...

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is only one of

these

messages then it works.

Both messages showed up.

Randy, where exactly did they show up ??

Strange this is...
I see both of these messages from Lyle when using Google groups, so it is not removed 'yet'.
I see only one of these in my reader, so I only downloaded one of them...

Arno R

[Randy Harris]

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...

Randy Harris wrote:

I have looked extensively for a replacement for OE. There are better
newsreaders and there are better mail clients. But, if you want a single program that does both there just isn't anything better. I think I've tried them all.

Thunderbird? I just recently migrated to Thunderbird for email, and its
cool. My ISP doesn't have a Usenet server, so I just post and read
through Google, but Tbird does have an integrated news reader.

Diego

Thunderbird came closer than any of the many programs I looked at. I hated
the way it manages views, however. Change the view sort, it unthreads the
view. Rethread the view, all threads are expanded. Collapse all threads,
then you can look at messages. Change a sort, the whole circus starts over
again. Drove me nuts.

I suspect that Thunderbird will improve with time. They need to straighten
out the mess with the views and make the toolbars more customizable. It
might end up being the best "combination" client.

Just my 2 cents worth, of course.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

[David W. Fenton]

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote in
news:11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

Randy Harris wrote:

I have looked extensively for a replacement for OE. There are
better newsreaders and there are better mail clients. But, if
you want a single program that does both there just isn't
anything better. I think I've tried them all.

Thunderbird? I just recently migrated to Thunderbird for email,
and its cool. My ISP doesn't have a Usenet server, so I just post
and read through Google, but Tbird does have an integrated news
reader.

The whole concept of a combined mail client/newsreader is flawed at
its basis, because despite the superficial similarities of email
messages and Usenet posts, the RFCs governing properly formed
messages/posts are completely different. For instance, the rules for
content encoding are much more restrictive in Usenet posts than in
email. Second, there's no agreed-upon standard for 8-bit encoding in
headers (that means that SUBJECTS, ORGANIZATIONS and FROM addresses
can't have anything but the lower half of the character set without
violating the accepted RFCs).

Now, it's theoretically possible to design a single piece of
software that switches modes and adjusts the outgoing format
accordingly, but email can be much more richly formatted than Usenet
posts (though I don't think it's terribly useful, even in email,
except for, er, marketers), so to really do it right, you'd have to
have an editor UI that adapts to the different types of messages,
with Usenet posts having vastly reduced formatting options (they
really ought to be pure plain text, in any event).

The end result is that you basically end up with a large part of the
code for the mail client and the news reader being not shared, so
you might as well have separate programs, seems to me.

A good free standalone newsreader is xNews, but it has a few
problems, but none of them are really significant.

The sad thing about the combined mail/news clients is that they
still lack features that I was using in tin in a Telnet window more
than 10 years ago. Outlook Express was written by people who really
didn't understand Usenet (I don't think they understood Internet
email, either, but that's a different issue), and Thunderbird is (in
my opinion) an ill-conceived effort to rip off and imitate OE.

On the other hand, xNews is a venerable program that was designed on
the front end to post to Usenet and all of its features are designed
around the specifics of posting to Usenet. It started life as an
effort to build a GUI news client, back in the days when tin and trn
and other such powerful text-based News clients were used in Telnet
windows, and it doesn't sacrifice any of the features that were
available way back then.

As a result, some of the UI conventions are not exactly what one
would expect, but nothing about it is hard to figure out -- just
about anybody ought to be able to get it running without reading the
manual. If you *do* read the manual, though, you'll find that it's
got a number of extremely powerful features that are not clearelyi
exposed (or not exposed at all) in the graphical interface. So, what
you get out of it is dependent on how much effort you put into
learning it.

Clearly, xNews would not be the email client for MLH, but for most
people in a technical newsgroup like this, I'd think it would be an
excellent choice.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[Randy Harris]

"Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:43***********************@text.nova.planet.nl ...
"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> schreef in bericht
news:E3*******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZF*****************@read1.cgocable.net...

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is only one of these

messages then it works.

Both messages showed up.

Randy, where exactly did they show up ??

Strange this is...
I see both of these messages from Lyle when using Google groups, so it is not removed 'yet'.I see only one of these in my reader, so I only downloaded one of them...

Arno R

I get usenet from a server provided by my ISP. I use OE. I saw both of
Lyle's messages in OE.

I don't know anything about how NNTP works, but I would assume that your
posting host (in my case the ISP's NNTP server) must periodically
synchronize its new messages with some sort of centralized servers. I would
also assume that if you delete the message from your posting host before it
synchronizes, that would stop it from further distribution of that message.
It might be that, if you delete it after it has forwarded the message on to
one server but before it sends it to others, that some people that get
service from the ISP servers might see it and others not. (if that makes
sense)

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

[Randy Harris]

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote in
news:11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

Randy Harris wrote:

I have looked extensively for a replacement for OE. There are
better newsreaders and there are better mail clients. But, if
you want a single program that does both there just isn't
anything better. I think I've tried them all.

Thunderbird? I just recently migrated to Thunderbird for email,
and its cool. My ISP doesn't have a Usenet server, so I just post
and read through Google, but Tbird does have an integrated news
reader.

The whole concept of a combined mail client/newsreader is flawed at
its basis, because despite the superficial similarities of email
messages and Usenet posts, the RFCs governing properly formed
messages/posts are completely different. For instance, the rules for
content encoding are much more restrictive in Usenet posts than in
email. Second, there's no agreed-upon standard for 8-bit encoding in
headers (that means that SUBJECTS, ORGANIZATIONS and FROM addresses
can't have anything but the lower half of the character set without
violating the accepted RFCs).

Now, it's theoretically possible to design a single piece of
software that switches modes and adjusts the outgoing format
accordingly, but email can be much more richly formatted than Usenet
posts (though I don't think it's terribly useful, even in email,
except for, er, marketers), so to really do it right, you'd have to
have an editor UI that adapts to the different types of messages,
with Usenet posts having vastly reduced formatting options (they
really ought to be pure plain text, in any event).

The end result is that you basically end up with a large part of the
code for the mail client and the news reader being not shared, so
you might as well have separate programs, seems to me.

A good free standalone newsreader is xNews, but it has a few
problems, but none of them are really significant.

The sad thing about the combined mail/news clients is that they
still lack features that I was using in tin in a Telnet window more
than 10 years ago. Outlook Express was written by people who really
didn't understand Usenet (I don't think they understood Internet
email, either, but that's a different issue), and Thunderbird is (in
my opinion) an ill-conceived effort to rip off and imitate OE.

On the other hand, xNews is a venerable program that was designed on
the front end to post to Usenet and all of its features are designed
around the specifics of posting to Usenet. It started life as an
effort to build a GUI news client, back in the days when tin and trn
and other such powerful text-based News clients were used in Telnet
windows, and it doesn't sacrifice any of the features that were
available way back then.

As a result, some of the UI conventions are not exactly what one
would expect, but nothing about it is hard to figure out -- just
about anybody ought to be able to get it running without reading the
manual. If you *do* read the manual, though, you'll find that it's
got a number of extremely powerful features that are not clearelyi
exposed (or not exposed at all) in the graphical interface. So, what
you get out of it is dependent on how much effort you put into
learning it.

Clearly, xNews would not be the email client for MLH, but for most
people in a technical newsgroup like this, I'd think it would be an
excellent choice.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

I have to agree. If one stubbornly insists on using a single tool for both
jobs, which I do, he ends up with two inferior tools.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

[Lyle Fairfield]

In Google everything remains visible.
But in my ISP newsgroups I get:

Error!
newsgroup server responded:No Such Article In Group

Perhaps the article has expired

<43***********************@text.nova.planet.nl> (19546)

Click here to remove all expired articles

[Bob Quintal]

"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in
news:OQ******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy.n et:

"Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:43***********************@text.nova.planet.nl ...
"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> schreef in bericht
news:E3*******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZF*****************@read1.cgocable.net...

Messages -> Cancel Message will do it I think; if there is
only one of

these

messages then it works.

Both messages showed up.

Randy, where exactly did they show up ??

Strange this is...
I see both of these messages from Lyle when using Google
groups, so it is

not removed 'yet'.

I see only one of these in my reader, so I only downloaded one
of them...

Arno R

I get usenet from a server provided by my ISP. I use OE. I
saw both of Lyle's messages in OE.

I don't know anything about how NNTP works, but I would assume
that your posting host (in my case the ISP's NNTP server) must
periodically synchronize its new messages with some sort of
centralized servers. I would also assume that if you delete
the message from your posting host before it synchronizes,
that would stop it from further distribution of that message.
It might be that, if you delete it after it has forwarded the
message on to one server but before it sends it to others,
that some people that get service from the ISP servers might
see it and others not. (if that makes sense)

It makes perfect sense. Also, many net news servers refuse to
obey 'cancel message' commands, because they can be easily
abused.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

[ironcito]

Randy Harris wrote:

I have to agree. If one stubbornly insists on using a single tool for both
jobs, which I do, he ends up with two inferior tools.

Sadly, the mail/news combination is the lesser of evils. Nowadays you
can't seem to get a firewall without an antivirus. A word processor
without an office suite. A file sharing client without a browser, chat
program, media player...
Everything's integrated, in combos. You end up having the same function
repeated in several programs. Whatever happened to the simple,
to-the-point application? The boundary where one application ends and
another begins is getting blurred. This is what's killing the Windows
world for me. I have to believe it's not so bad in Linux or Mac, and
I've been considering migration lately more than ever.
Diego

[David W. Fenton]

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote in
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

Randy Harris wrote:

I have to agree. If one stubbornly insists on using a single
tool for both jobs, which I do, he ends up with two inferior
tools.
Sadly, the mail/news combination is the lesser of evils. . . .

From your examples, it seems that you're suggesting that there are
no standalone mail clients or standalone newsreaders. That's just
not the case. There are many very fine standalone programs. And
Thunderbird is a perfectly fine mail client (Outlook Express is not
appropriate for any purpose, though).
. . . Nowadays you
can't seem to get a firewall without an antivirus. A word
processor without an office suite. A file sharing client without a
browser, chat program, media player...
Everything's integrated, in combos. You end up having the same
function repeated in several programs. Whatever happened to the
simple, to-the-point application? The boundary where one
application ends and another begins is getting blurred. This is
what's killing the Windows world for me. I have to believe it's
not so bad in Linux or Mac, and I've been considering migration
lately more than ever.

There are still plenty of excellent standalone programs in the
mail/news sphere. Pegasus Mail and Eudora for email (just two that I
know of), and xNews and Agent/Free Agent for news. I've heard any
number of others that I have never used -- a Google search ought to
produce plenty of alternatives.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[David W. Fenton]

"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in
news:OQ******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy.n et:

I get usenet from a server provided by my ISP. I use OE. I saw
both of Lyle's messages in OE.

I don't know anything about how NNTP works, but I would assume
that your posting host (in my case the ISP's NNTP server) must
periodically synchronize its new messages with some sort of
centralized servers. I would also assume that if you delete the
message from your posting host before it synchronizes, that would
stop it from further distribution of that message. It might be
that, if you delete it after it has forwarded the message on to
one server but before it sends it to others, that some people that
get service from the ISP servers might see it and others not. (if
that makes sense)

You should read up on how Usenet works. There are no centralized
servers, it's just a network of servers peered with each other.

According to the design of Usenet, cancels are supposed to be
propagated just like posts (they are just messages passed between
the servers), but many servers don't honor cancels any longer, since
they are fairly easy to forge. Secondly, those servers that *do*
honor cancels have no control over the timing of when the cancels
are received and when people read messages. The original message
could arrive at your local news server, you could read it, and then
the cancel could arrive after you've read it.

I don't know if news servers that receive a cancel for an article
originally posted to that same news server before the next synch
with another server will not send out the original. I somehow doubt
it, as it would make for a lot of extra trouble in programming it.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[ironcito]

David W. Fenton wrote:

(...) From your examples, it seems that you're suggesting that there are
no standalone mail clients or standalone newsreaders. That's just
not the case. There are many very fine standalone programs. (...)
There are still plenty of excellent standalone programs in the
mail/news sphere. (...)

Yes, there are several standalone applications. If you look hard
enough, you can find a standalone firewall, standalone AV, word
processor, etc. It's just not the trend. Plus, in certain areas, if you
want to go standalone, you have to sacrifice compatibility (word
processing, IM, P2P...). It's even possible to remove Windows' bundled
stuff, but there are many programs that require you to have MSIE or
MediaPlayer installed, for example. It's all this "web" that builds
inside your computer that I don't like. Practically every program
installs stuff in /windows or /windows/system. Programs that require
other programs when they really shouldn't. Programs that insist on
including functions that are unrelated to their main purpose, like the
web browser and the IRC client in P2P applications, a Google search bar
everywhere ($$), popup blocker in AV's, and so on. Few software
developers focus on simplicity and lightweight.
Cheers :-)

Diego

[Bob Quintal]

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1:

I don't know if news servers that receive a cancel for an
article originally posted to that same news server before the
next synch with another server will not send out the original.
I somehow doubt it, as it would make for a lot of extra
trouble in programming it.

A usenet server is a file-based db. A message is a record. A cancel
is a delete command. If a server honors the cancel message, the
message is no longer there to propagate.
--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

[David W. Fenton]

"ironcito" <co****@ironcito.com> wrote in
news:11**********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

David W. Fenton wrote:

(...) From your examples, it seems that you're suggesting that
there are no standalone mail clients or standalone newsreaders.
That's just not the case. There are many very fine standalone
programs. (...) There are still plenty of excellent standalone
programs in the mail/news sphere. (...)

Yes, there are several standalone applications. If you look hard
enough, you can find a standalone firewall, standalone AV, word
processor, etc. It's just not the trend. Plus, in certain areas,
if you want to go standalone, you have to sacrifice compatibility
(word processing, IM, P2P...). It's even possible to remove
Windows' bundled stuff, but there are many programs that require
you to have MSIE or MediaPlayer installed, for example. It's all
this "web" that builds inside your computer that I don't like.
Practically every program installs stuff in /windows or
/windows/system. Programs that require other programs when they
really shouldn't. Programs that insist on including functions that
are unrelated to their main purpose, like the web browser and the
IRC client in P2P applications, a Google search bar everywhere
($$), popup blocker in AV's, and so on. Few software developers
focus on simplicity and lightweight. Cheers :-)

I'm a definite believer in using standalone applications, choosing
best-of-breed for each task. I don't feel at all cramped by the
possibilities out there.

But I wouldn't pay a wooden nickel for a product from McAfee or
Symantec -- I think their products are completely useless, poorly
designed, not shifting with the times, and a waste of good money. In
almost all cases, they cause more problems than they solve.

I avoid *any* software that is built on top of Internet Explorer
products, and avoid using IE for anything that I'm not forced to use
it with (e.g., Windows Update).

I'm all for software that has no outside dependencies on anything
other than the OS.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

[David W. Fenton]

Bob Quintal <rq******@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:Xn**********************@207.35.177.135:

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1:

I don't know if news servers that receive a cancel for an
article originally posted to that same news server before the
next synch with another server will not send out the original.
I somehow doubt it, as it would make for a lot of extra
trouble in programming it.

A usenet server is a file-based db. A message is a record. A
cancel is a delete command. If a server honors the cancel message,
the message is no longer there to propagate.

But the question is whether or not the server makes an effort to
check or just sends out the cancel.

I don't think it matters, though.

Lots of major news servers don't honor cancels, anyway.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/