473,396 Members | 1,971 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
Post Job

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Join Bytes to post your question to a community of 473,396 software developers and data experts.

Self-Referencing tables

I have a question about how to make records in a table reference other
records in the same table....

Suppose I'm building a small database to track some basic information
on several companies. In addition to the ID and other info, I want to
track predecessor and succesor companies, if any.

In other words, a given company may have come into being from the
merger of two or more predecessors, may have been spun-off from a
single predecessor, or may not have a predecessor as a start-up.

Conversely, a company may no longer exist because it merged with
another to form a new company, or may have divided itself to form
multiple new companies. (The successors.)

In this scenario my questions are:

1. How do I set things up so that a record in the table references one
or more other records in that same table? Keeping in mind that there
could be multiples each of predecessors and successors.

2. How would the form be set up, as the number of predecessors and
successors will vary? I assume a couple of subforms are in order here.
Datasheet style is fine for my purposes.

Typically flat-file databases have served my needs in the past, but
I've been trying to get a better handle on RDBMSs, and this is a bit
beyond my current experience.

My version of Access 2000.

Nov 13 '05 #1
6 8574
if a company has more than one predecessor (formed by a merger of 2+
companies) or more than one successor, then you would have to split the
predecessor and succesor information into separate tables.

Some database applications will let you do this kind of thing by using
things like repeating fields. (Like FileMaker) They're somewhat
useful, but if you want to write reports on a subset of repeating field
values, then forget it. You have to split the repeating fields.

If you *really* want to reference the same Company table in the
Predecessor and Successor fields, you could create a combobox for each
and use SELECT CompanyID, CompanyName FROM Company as the rowsource for
your combobox...But I would lean toward creating separate tables for
the Predecessor and Successor info. Then you should be able to track
what you need.

Sounds like a rough place to start with Access. I may be wrong, but
this does not sound like an easy question.

Nov 13 '05 #2
if a company has more than one predecessor (formed by a merger of 2+
companies) or more than one successor, then you would have to split the
predecessor and succesor information into separate tables.

Some database applications will let you do this kind of thing by using
things like repeating fields. (Like FileMaker) They're somewhat
useful, but if you want to write reports on a subset of repeating field
values, then forget it. You have to split the repeating fields.

If you *really* want to reference the same Company table in the
Predecessor and Successor fields, you could create a combobox for each
and use SELECT CompanyID, CompanyName FROM Company as the rowsource for
your combobox...But I would lean toward creating separate tables for
the Predecessor and Successor info. Then you should be able to track
what you need.

Sounds like a rough place to start with Access. I may be wrong, but
this does not sound like an easy question.

Nov 13 '05 #3
Interesting question, John.

The table can refer to another record in itself, just by adding a foreign
key field that refers to its primary key. To create the relation window,
drag a 2nd copy of the table into the Relationships window (Tools menu.)
Access aliases the 2nd copy with an "_1" suffix, and you can create the
relation as normal. For an introductory example, see:
Self Joins: tables that look themselves up (Pedigrees example)
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/ser-06.html

In your case, you are wanting to deal with multiple predecessors and
successors, so a self-join may not be enough. You may need a junction table
containing fields:
PredecessorID foreign key to Main.MainID
SuccessorID also a foreign key to Main.MainID
This would allow you to define any records as predecessor of any others.

In terms of interface, you would have a main form, with 2 subforms. The
first subform shows the predecessors of the current record, and the 2nd
subform shows its successors. This is an incredibly simple but very flexible
design, that works very well. I used the design once and had no problems at
all until the client asked for the data to be exported in flatfile format
which proved to be messy.

Where it becomes complex is if you are asked to trace the generations up or
down to an unknown depth, especially if there is a possibility of a
predecessor also being a successor of itself (cyclic relationship.) To study
the general design of one part holding other parts that are parts in their
own rights, search on "bill of materials". Here's a starting point:
http://www.mvps.org/access/modules/mdl0027.htm

The SQL langauge is not good at handling this kind of relation, so
ultimately it can get messy. More reading:
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.shtml
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9603d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9604d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9605d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9606d06.html

HTH

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"John E" <n7***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
I have a question about how to make records in a table reference other
records in the same table....

Suppose I'm building a small database to track some basic information
on several companies. In addition to the ID and other info, I want to
track predecessor and succesor companies, if any.

In other words, a given company may have come into being from the
merger of two or more predecessors, may have been spun-off from a
single predecessor, or may not have a predecessor as a start-up.

Conversely, a company may no longer exist because it merged with
another to form a new company, or may have divided itself to form
multiple new companies. (The successors.)

In this scenario my questions are:

1. How do I set things up so that a record in the table references one
or more other records in that same table? Keeping in mind that there
could be multiples each of predecessors and successors.

2. How would the form be set up, as the number of predecessors and
successors will vary? I assume a couple of subforms are in order here.
Datasheet style is fine for my purposes.

Typically flat-file databases have served my needs in the past, but
I've been trying to get a better handle on RDBMSs, and this is a bit
beyond my current experience.

My version of Access 2000.

Nov 13 '05 #4
Interesting question, John.

The table can refer to another record in itself, just by adding a foreign
key field that refers to its primary key. To create the relation window,
drag a 2nd copy of the table into the Relationships window (Tools menu.)
Access aliases the 2nd copy with an "_1" suffix, and you can create the
relation as normal. For an introductory example, see:
Self Joins: tables that look themselves up (Pedigrees example)
at:
http://allenbrowne.com/ser-06.html

In your case, you are wanting to deal with multiple predecessors and
successors, so a self-join may not be enough. You may need a junction table
containing fields:
PredecessorID foreign key to Main.MainID
SuccessorID also a foreign key to Main.MainID
This would allow you to define any records as predecessor of any others.

In terms of interface, you would have a main form, with 2 subforms. The
first subform shows the predecessors of the current record, and the 2nd
subform shows its successors. This is an incredibly simple but very flexible
design, that works very well. I used the design once and had no problems at
all until the client asked for the data to be exported in flatfile format
which proved to be messy.

Where it becomes complex is if you are asked to trace the generations up or
down to an unknown depth, especially if there is a possibility of a
predecessor also being a successor of itself (cyclic relationship.) To study
the general design of one part holding other parts that are parts in their
own rights, search on "bill of materials". Here's a starting point:
http://www.mvps.org/access/modules/mdl0027.htm

The SQL langauge is not good at handling this kind of relation, so
ultimately it can get messy. More reading:
http://www.intelligententerprise.com/001020/celko.shtml
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9603d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9604d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9605d06.html
http://www.dbmsmag.com/9606d06.html

HTH

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia.
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"John E" <n7***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
I have a question about how to make records in a table reference other
records in the same table....

Suppose I'm building a small database to track some basic information
on several companies. In addition to the ID and other info, I want to
track predecessor and succesor companies, if any.

In other words, a given company may have come into being from the
merger of two or more predecessors, may have been spun-off from a
single predecessor, or may not have a predecessor as a start-up.

Conversely, a company may no longer exist because it merged with
another to form a new company, or may have divided itself to form
multiple new companies. (The successors.)

In this scenario my questions are:

1. How do I set things up so that a record in the table references one
or more other records in that same table? Keeping in mind that there
could be multiples each of predecessors and successors.

2. How would the form be set up, as the number of predecessors and
successors will vary? I assume a couple of subforms are in order here.
Datasheet style is fine for my purposes.

Typically flat-file databases have served my needs in the past, but
I've been trying to get a better handle on RDBMSs, and this is a bit
beyond my current experience.

My version of Access 2000.

Nov 13 '05 #5
I don't *have* to do it with a single table. Because I am referencing
exactly the same type of information, I figured that it could stay in
the same table. A predecessor company, for example, would also be a
record with the same kinds of basic information about it, and it could
also have predecessors as well as successors.

The variable number of repeating fields in a record does seem tricky,
though.

Nov 13 '05 #6
I don't *have* to do it with a single table. Because I am referencing
exactly the same type of information, I figured that it could stay in
the same table. A predecessor company, for example, would also be a
record with the same kinds of basic information about it, and it could
also have predecessors as well as successors.

The variable number of repeating fields in a record does seem tricky,
though.

Nov 13 '05 #7

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

2
by: Marc | last post by:
Hi all, I was using Tkinter.IntVar() to store values from a large list of parts that I pulled from a list. This is the code to initialize the instances: def initVariables(self): self.e =...
15
by: Ralf W. Grosse-Kunstleve | last post by:
****************************************************************************** This posting is also available in HTML format: http://cci.lbl.gov/~rwgk/python/adopt_init_args_2005_07_02.html...
18
by: Ralf W. Grosse-Kunstleve | last post by:
My initial proposal (http://cci.lbl.gov/~rwgk/python/adopt_init_args_2005_07_02.html) didn't exactly get a warm welcome... And Now for Something Completely Different: class autoinit(object):...
4
by: David Coffin | last post by:
I'd like to subclass int to support list access, treating the integer as if it were a list of bits. Assigning bits to particular indices involves changing the value of the integer itself, but...
4
by: marek.rocki | last post by:
First of all, please don't flame me immediately. I did browse archives and didn't see any solution to my problem. Assume I want to add a method to an object at runtime. Yes, to an object, not a...
7
by: Andrew Robert | last post by:
Hi Everyone, I am having a problem with a class and hope you can help. When I try to use the class listed below, I get the statement that self is not defined. test=TriggerMessage(data) var...
24
by: Peter Maas | last post by:
The Python FAQ 1.4.5 gives 3 reasons for explicit self (condensed version): 1. Instance variables can be easily distinguished from local variables. 2. A method from a particular class can be...
84
by: braver | last post by:
Is there any trick to get rid of having to type the annoying, character-eating "self." prefix everywhere in a class? Sometimes I avoid OO just not to deal with its verbosity. In fact, I try to...
13
by: Kurda Yon | last post by:
Hi, I found one example which defines the addition of two vectors as a method of a class. It looks like that: class Vector: def __add__(self, other): data = for j in range(len(self.data)):...
6
by: Bart Kastermans | last post by:
I am playing with some trees. In one of the procedures I wrote for this I am trying to change self to a different tree. A tree here has four members (val/type/left/right). I found that self = SS...
0
by: emmanuelkatto | last post by:
Hi All, I am Emmanuel katto from Uganda. I want to ask what challenges you've faced while migrating a website to cloud. Please let me know. Thanks! Emmanuel
1
by: nemocccc | last post by:
hello, everyone, I want to develop a software for my android phone for daily needs, any suggestions?
1
by: Sonnysonu | last post by:
This is the data of csv file 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 2 3 2 3 3 the lengths should be different i have to store the data by column-wise with in the specific length. suppose the i have to...
0
by: Hystou | last post by:
There are some requirements for setting up RAID: 1. The motherboard and BIOS support RAID configuration. 2. The motherboard has 2 or more available SATA protocol SSD/HDD slots (including MSATA, M.2...
0
by: Hystou | last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can...
0
Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers,...
0
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven...
0
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each...
0
agi2029
by: agi2029 | last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing,...

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.